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Zeitgeist, The Movie

Discussion in 'Politics (deprecated)' started by Interchange, Jul 26, 2007.

  1. doughboy

    doughboy TRIBE Member

    Well... I did check out that site and although it was an interesting read there wasn't enough there to convince me otherwise, especially considering the whole "they stole it from other religions" argument isn't the one I found most convincing.

    My takeaway from Part 1 is the similarity to astrological occurrences more than whether or not "ideas" were taken from other texts and descriptions of Gods from other cultures or historical periods.

    I've always been interested in Egyptian mythology and more specifically how the Pyramids and the Sphinx relate to their adoration of the sun and the stars (shafts in the Great Pyramid pointing towards the stars of Orion's belt, the layout of the Pyramids mimicking the position of the 3 stars in Orion's belt, etc).

    As such, the portions discussing the precession of the sun through both the equinox and the astrological ages, the position of the sun in the sky during winter solstice (death/resurrection sequence), the alignment of Orion's Belt, Sirius, and the Sun during that time, etc are especially poignant.

    The other main point I derive from Part 1 is its place as the most basic (or first) form of control and manipulation.

    A group of 100 people with the same (or very similar) core of beliefs are much easier to control and manipulate than if they all had their own independent thoughts and beliefs and religion (regardless of which one we're talking about) provides the basis to do that.
     
  2. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    Ya, but the film was a bit innacurate with respect to say, Krishna, which should tell you something about how to approach the facts presented in the rest of the film.

    AS for control and manipulation, there's no doubt that religion has been used as such a tool - so I think when you take away some of the innacuracies you're left with a religious section that isn't really telling us anything all that new.

    All religions borrow from one another and all can and have been used as systems of control... that isn't all that controversial or a big revelation (to borrow a term of religious significance..)
     
  3. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    The other thing is too is that I think that link would be good "ammo" if you do end up in a debate on the religious section of Zeitgeist, because a researched opponent will definitely bring it up.

    For more challenge and a long rather dense but amazingly well researched exchange on the religious aspects and others I highly recommend this thread:

    http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=85264

    This forum is like the "A-team" of debunking and hosted on a site dedicated to skepticism and such so that's the culture its in. You'll probably see Zeitgeist mocked heavily. But there's some sharp minds at work there and usually a few hardy proponents of things like Zeitgeist bringing up the best points for their cause out there.

    If it makes through the "debunk-o filter" there you can bet its a solid point.

    I'm just of the mind that not much makes it through..;)
     
  4. basilisk

    basilisk TRIBE Member

    I went to a skeptic's talk at U of T a little while back... someone actually got up and asked the keynote speaker, "have you seen a movie called Zeitgeist?" Madness.

    Honestly... what is it about this movie that turns people into such gibbering zealots? Is there some kind of mind control thing going on here? This crap is really no better than Scientology. Here's a film that can't even make a solid argument about the syncretic origin of Christianity! Sheesh.
     
  5. CiG

    CiG TRIBE Member

    After spending roughly 2 hours on the Randi forums I find no evidence of an "A-team" just a bunch of bashing forum warriors... I think there probably is some good discussion there if you have a lifetime to find it between all the mocking posts... Just like the conspiracy theorists they use whatever quotes fit their arguments and then pat each other on the backs...
     
  6. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    A-team leaders: Mark Roberts aka Gravy, Ryan Mackey aka RMackey

    check em out..;)

    In any adversarial debate things get sarcastic pretty quickly... you just gotta sort..;) And that back and forth towards the later pages of the Zeitgeist thread on the religion part was actually a pretty thorough and informative discussion.

    EDIT: and a LOT of the stuff that gets posted there from Truthers I think deserves a bit of mockery... a lot but not all..;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2008
  7. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    To wit:

    • Mark Roberts' VERY informative and well researched 9/11 page here.

    • Ryan Mackey's over 200 page take-down of David Ray Griffin's "Debunking 9/11 debunking". Incredibly thorough, shows his work. Great if you've been following the debate but havent dug down into the technical details of the Controlled Demolition and its plausibility (or lack of it).

    • 9/11 Myths. Website begun by a forum member (forget who at the moment but its in the link) and he got the idea for the site after engaging in debates on the forum for a while. Very well written and not very adversarial. very good, "nice" approach to the issues which can unfortunately get very heated

    Thats the A-team buddy, not sure where you'll find anything more comprehensive.

    Here are a collection of threads from JREF where I honestly learned something new:

    • What They Heard on 9/11 - an exhaustive collection of eyewitness accounts at Ground Zero.

    • Why did the WTC columns "pull in"? Nice little explanation of the physics of the process, shows his work!

    • Chemtrails. This thread is great if you've never dug down on the issue before. Some great insight from pilots, some great links to research on airplane contrails

    And the Zeitgeist thread definitely taught me some new stuff regarding the religion debates..;)

    So this is why JREF is the "A-team", I know of nowhere else where I can learn about chemtrails, 9/11 conspiracies, JFK and other such stuff in such great detail. I also know of nowhere else where people like Gravy and Ryan Mackey post...
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2008
  8. o0OemwaO0o

    o0OemwaO0o TRIBE Member

    i love a good conspiracy theory

    "powerful bankers have been conspiring for world domination and increased power while the rich of society have been using their wealth to increase financial panic and foster a consolidation of independent competing banks. Supporters of this theory can say to a certain degree who is part of it. Most prominent families such as the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, the Bush family, the Morgans, Warburgs and Du Ponts, as well as European monarchs, are said to be important members."


    In the news today:
    JPMorgan Chase has agree to buy all of Bear Stearns shares for $2 each, for a total of about $270 million. A year ago, shares of Bear sold for $170. The unprecedented deal includes a commitment from JPMorgan and the Federal Reserve to guarantee the trading obligations of Bear.

    http://www.smartbrief.com/news/cfa/...clipsyndicate.com/view/478/544765?cpt=8&wpid=
     
  9. EffinHard

    EffinHard TRIBE Member

    i was very skeptical watching this movie... especially the 911 parts... the religious part at the beginning really quenched the atheist in me, but after doing some research (specifically about horus) I didn't find anything that movie mentioned - so the skepticism grew.

    I really did like the part about relating christianity to pagan astrology. That makes a lot of sense to me, especially the part about the ages.

    We all know the rosthchilds / rockefellers / morgans / walgreens are the real money winners in the US.

    (did you know that blackwater is a rosthchild company?)
     
  10. Taro

    Taro TRIBE Member

    that's hilarious - I can just imagine the speaker going home, looking it up, and the reaction "what the....?"

    agree - zeitgeist is shit. I don't get why its popular either -
     
  11. Colm

    Colm TRIBE Member

    A work friend of mine recommended this movie to me. He had been telling us that it 'changed his life' and that after viewing it, we 'wouldn't be same again'. Unfortunately a great deal of the film relies on theories of parallelism, arguments from incredulity and arguments from silence. Particularly in the religion section, not a single academic argument is even touched upon. That's not intrepid filmmaking, it's intellectual laziness.

    btw, I think the film is popular because many people desperately want something to believe than requires a certain element of faith. Back the day, Christianity filled this void; today, it's clip-fests posing as documentaries that promise the viewer with a handful of exclusive, esoteric information.
     

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