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Yerba

Maui

TRIBE Member
Anyone else using Yerba Mate?

My friends from B.C. told me about this stuff at christmas and gave me a big bag.
Now I'm addicted to it!
Just curious if anyone has heard anything bad about it. From what I can find it is being touted as a side-effect free caffeine alternative.

I've certainly been feeling more energetic lately.

Peace,

Maui
 

Adam

TRIBE Member
As a random crystal meth side note, did anyone read the Globe and Mail this saturday?

The lead story was about crystal meth abuse amongst Vancouver's street kids. They profiled a girl, showing a gigantic picture of her on the front page, but followed it up with "Jane, who did not want to use her real name, so as to keep anonymous, ...etc"

YOUR PICTURE WAS ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE GLOBE AND MAIL. You ain't anonymous no more.

Edit: Subsonic, hahahahah, that's the article.
 

Subsonic Chronic

TRIBE Member
Toxic drug causes lasting damage to brain

By JANE ARMSTRONG
Saturday, January 10, 2004 - Page A1




VANCOUVER -- The first time Caitlin used crystal methamphetamine, she marvelled at how alert -- even brave -- she grew, especially when night fell. At 13, she was fending for herself on the streets of a tough suburban Vancouver neighbourhood. The drug chased off hunger too and made the damp West Coast chill endurable.

It lost its cachet when she began to hallucinate. Soon, Caitlin was convinced every man she saw was carrying a gun. She believed that laser weapons were aimed at her heart. She once carved a hole in her thumb with tweezers trying to extract an imaginary glass sliver.

Today, at 14, she's back at home in her mother's house in suburban Surrey, B.C., no longer using crystal methamphetamine but still gripped by the perplexing paranoia it induces. She's afraid to leave the house and sleeps in her mother's bedroom on the floor. At night, she hears whispering in the hall.

"I'm so scared all the time," Caitlin said, her eyes growing wide with alarm as she gripped a lollipop and recounted her life on the street. Caitlin is not her real name. She agreed to speak about her drug experiences on condition she remain anonymous.

Caitlin used other drugs, including crack and heroin, but doctors say her experience with crystal methamphetamine, or meth as it's colloquially known, is eerily similar to other users.

The energy it first fuels later turns to aggression, paranoia and even psychosis. Worse, doctors say, damage could be permanent as they find increasing evidence that the drug alters the structure of the brain.

In short, it makes people crazy.

The longer people use the drug -- made entirely from synthetic and highly toxic ingredients, including ammonia, paint thinner, battery acid and even Drano -- the worse the damage. Some psychiatrists say meth can bring on schizophrenia, one of the most crippling of all mental illnesses.

And it is sweeping British Columbia's Lower Mainland, causing alarm -- even panic -- among police, youth workers and health authorities, who estimate that up to 90 per cent of street kids have used the drug. They're worried that a whole sector of young people face a lifetime of mental problems.

And although meth is still largely a West Coast phenomenon, it has already migrated eastward. In Edmonton, police blamed its use for a spike in property crimes last year.

"I plead with them," said Bill MacEwan, a psychiatrist who has treated meth users who still suffer psychotic symptoms. "I give them horror stories. I say: 'If you're going to use drugs, don't use this. It can damage you forever. It is highly toxic. It can ruin your life.' "

Youth workers say the drug has caused mayhem at Vancouver shelters when out-of-control users arrive in a psychotic state. For the first time, youth counsellors are afraid of the people they're trying to help.

"Their behaviour is so strange," said Steve Smith, program director of a downtown youth drop-in centre. "They'll tell you this person was shot 17 times and they really believe it. They're not telling stories; they're trying to confide in you. It's hard to have a conversation with these people."

Sandy Cooke, executive director of Vancouver's downtown Covenant House, said staff have turned young people away from the overnight shelter. Counsellors say it's hard to differentiate between the genuinely mentally ill and those high on meth.

"It's really an ugly challenge," Mr. Cooke added. "I've seen the heroin come in, I've seen the crack cocaine come in. This is the worst I've seen in my time."

Meth arrived on the West Coast about two years ago, landing with a splash in Vancouver's club scene. Like ecstasy, it gives users energy and stamina for all-night dance raves.

But meth delivers more bang. Where ecstasy's effects will wear off before dawn, meth will last well into the next day.

And while cocaine is still the most widely used drug in Vancouver, police say meth use is climbing. A 2002 study conducted in the area showed 19 per cent of young people aged 12 to 24 had tried it.

Police also say college students use the drug to stay awake to study, and some young women use it for weight control.

While meth has made inroads into the middle class, the population it has gripped the most tightly is street kids. Sadly, it's as if the drug was tailor-made to meet the needs of those living hand-to-mouth.

In addition to dulling hunger and fatigue, it's incredibly cheap. A "point" of meth, meaning one-tenth of a gram, costs $10 and lasts up to 12 hours, sometimes longer. By comparison, a rock of crack cocaine costs the same but wears off in 20 minutes.

"You can panhandle for a few hours to get what you need," said Detective Constable Colleen Yee of the Vancouver police drug unit.

Meth is easy to buy and easy to make. Anyone with a stove can cook up a batch. Recipes can be can be found on the Internet, and the main ingredients -- ephedrine, red phosphorous and iodine -- can be purchased at a drug or hardware store, which raises a separate set of environmental concerns.

In Vancouver, labs have sprung up in residential neighbourhoods across the city. Compared to marijuana grow operations, where the main health hazard is mouldy walls, these labs are highly toxic, flammable and pose a health threat to neighbours.

Last Wednesday, firefighters were called to a blaze on a quiet east-side street. When the occupant fled the house, firefighters, suspecting a meth lab, called the drug unit. Police found four vats of the drug bubbling on a counter, with toxic smoke billowing into the night air.

In its first North American incarnation, meth, or speed as it was then called, was fed to Allied pilots during the Second World War to help them stay awake on long flights. Some doctors prescribed the stimulant to treat bronchitis, depression and obesity.

That form of methamphetamine, taken as a tablet, was less potent than the current crystallized version. But its main ingredient then, as now, was ephedrine, which is found in cold medications. Taken in high doses, ephedrine provides bursts of energy and euphoria.

In the 1960s, meth use flourished again as a stimulant and labs sprouted in San Francisco. Then, in the 1980s, a crystallized, smokable -- and more powerful -- brand of meth hit the street. Also known as crank, jib, ice and shards, it delivered an instant, euphoric rush.

In the 1990s, it inched up the West Coast and fanned into the U.S. Midwest. Worldwide, it's the second most commonly used illicit drug after marijuana, with more than 35 million users.

So far, Canada's experience with meth differs sharply from that of the United States, where it's largely a rural or small-town phenomenon, with the nickname "hillbilly heroin".

One of the most ominous aspects of the meth craze is its dismal treatment statistics. It's highly addictive and the relapse rate -- at 92 per cent -- is higher than that of cocaine.

For some, addiction occurs the first time they try it. "I loved it," Caitlin said, recounting her first experience with meth. "I couldn't believe how fast I could talk."

It was her boyfriend who persuaded her to try the drug, which they melted with a lighter in a broken light bulb, inhaling its smoke.

Soon, she was stealing from her mother's wallet, even pawning her nine-year-old sister's portable CD player to pay for more meth. "I broke into her room with a knife and pawned it."

Later, she turned to prostitution to pay for her habit. She stopped using last fall after an overdose sent her to hospital, but she admitted she used the drug again just before Christmas.

Typically, users embark on days-long, sleepless binges. Afterward, with the brain's dopamine depleted, they fall into a severe depression, which, combined with the exhaustion, can make some suicidal.

Then there are the users who quit, but continue to experience mind-altering symptoms.

Dr. MacEwan, who is the director of the schizophrenia program at the University of British Columbia, has patients barely into their 20s who take anti-psychotic drugs.

And researchers are finding that former meth users can't think like they used to. For some, their memory is permanently impaired; for others, the ability to think abstractly has vanished.

Caitlin's future is uncertain. She hasn't attended school since Grade 7 and she remains afraid of the kind of day-to-day activities other teens don't think twice about.

Caitlin was supposed to start school again last Wednesday, but "chickened out," she said. She's too far behind, but she said she'll take courses by computer and try school again in the fall.

She thinks she's beaten her meth addiction because her last experience frightened her badly. Asked what she'd tell other kids tempted to try it, she replied: "Don't . It's dirty and it will fuck you up."

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040110/DRUGS10//?query=meth
 
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Hi i'm God

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Subsonic Chronic
the streets of a tough suburban Vancouver neighbourhood. ----------- she's back at home in her mother's house in suburban Surrey, B.C
WTF? where do we live again? The means streets of Detroit?
I always picture Vancouver as a Larger, Warmer Ajax/Whitby/Oshawa Tricity :p
 

mutslaster

TRIBE Member
hahah matt and i were ranting about this as well.

i love how the caption under her photo splashed all over the front page of a NATIONAL PAPER still bothered to put her name in "quotes."

"in short, it makes people crazy."
 
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Evil Dynovac

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Hi i'm God

I always picture Vancouver as a Larger, Warmer Ajax/Whitby/Oshawa Tricity :p
Vancouver as a city has its nice parts but there are sections that are just complete and total ghetto sketch. Much worse than any neighbourhood in Toronto, even Dundas west of Jarvis.

BC is the hobo capital of Canada because of the mild weather. There is also a hippie element that goes a little too far.

BC streets aren't necessarily mean, just old and dirty.
 

Evil Dynovac

TRIBE Member
Crystal as a drug sucks ass. I weather all come-downs with great aplomb but that shit wrecks me. The two times I did it I got into a self-loathing cycle that has never, never happened to me under any other circumstances. No other drug has every fucked with my core processes, with the way I think about and view myself.

That stuff is bad medicine. I'll try anything twice so having done just that I will never do it again.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
Meth is an ugly drug.

But I wonder how this is current news, I started seeing Meth conbsumption going through the roof already in the latter part of 96, personally I saw the real end of things back in 98 ish.

I remember being at a party (one of the Destiny Frdiays if memory serves) when a young girl said "give you a blowjob for a bump". Other than simply disgusting me when I saw her giving a guy a blowjob not ten minutes later I realized how frightening the drug was.

One of the few things that I think shutting down the afterhours (to a large extent) really did have a positive effect on.
 
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Littlest Hobo

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by mutslaster
hahah matt and i were ranting about this as well.

i love how the caption under her photo splashed all over the front page of a NATIONAL PAPER still bothered to put her name in "quotes."

"in short, it makes people crazy."
Jen and I were laughing at this dummy as well. And that quote! "I've been saying it for years".
 

lucky1

TRIBE Member
the artile is overly dramatic methinks. I know lots of people who used meth for a lot longe than a year and didn't turn into paranoid schizos as this Caitlin chick. did.

THe article is trying to scare people from using it.
 

lucky1

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Ditto Much
I remember being at a party (one of the Destiny Frdiays if memory serves) when a young girl said "give you a blowjob for a bump". Other than simply disgusting me when I saw her giving a guy a blowjob not ten minutes later I realized how frightening the drug was.

.
OMG I saw her too.! :( On isabella right?
 
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PosTMOd

Well-Known TRIBEr
Originally posted by lucky1
the artile is overly dramatic methinks. I know lots of people who used meth for a lot longe than a year and didn't turn into paranoid schizos as this Caitlin chick. did.

THe article is trying to scare people from using it.
True. The DSM IV lists Drug Induced Psychosis, yet it clearly states that the symptoms disappear once the drug is discontinued.

Interestingly, I had what I though were drug-induced delusions, but as a control, I pretended to continue drug use while I actually wasn't using, and the "delusions" continued. Stopped once I made it clear publicly that I wasn't using speed any more however. Funny, that. I just can't figure it out ;)
 

B(.)(.)bytrap

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Maui
Anyone else using Yerba Mate?

My friends from B.C. told me about this stuff at christmas and gave me a big bag.
Now I'm addicted to it!
Just curious if anyone has heard anything bad about it. From what I can find it is being touted as a side-effect free caffeine alternative.

I've certainly been feeling more energetic lately.

Peace,

Maui
OH,It definitely has caffine in it. The southern countries of South America, like Argentina and Uragauy drink a lot. But if you are constipated, drink mate, you will then go #2 shortly. Like many teas, even though it has caffine, the herbs in it make that much healthier than coffee.
 

Maui

TRIBE Member
Re: Re: Yerba

Originally posted by B(.)(.)bytrap
OH,It definitely has caffine in it. The southern countries of South America, like Argentina and Uragauy drink a lot. But if you are constipated, drink mate, you will then go #2 shortly. Like many teas, even though it has caffine, the herbs in it make that much healthier than coffee.

This is what I found on google.
I was rather concerned about whether it had caffeine in it or if the effects would be similar to that of caffeine. Regardless of whether this article is on point or not I've decided as of yesterday that it is at least similar to caffeine due to the reactions I had on it after having 6 large cups of it.

Yerba Mate
Does Yerba Mate Contain Any Caffeine?


The xanthines draw a lot of attention, chief of which is caffeine. Others are theophylline and theobromine. All of the xanthines have a similar stereo-chemistry but each has its own unique set of properties.

For many years, and even now, in some sectors, yerbamate' was (is) thought to contain caffeine. It turns out that mateine is not identical to caffeine; it differs from caffeine in some rather dramatic ways.

Some members of the scientific community still resort to calling mateine a South American term for caffeine, or to maintaining, in perfect knowledge of the falseness of the assertion, that two substances so similar chemically must have the same properties.

Slowly, they are being forced to acknowledge the distinction between mateine and caffeine.

Modern studies seem to validate the difference between mate' and other xanthines-containing plants, such as guarana.

Stereo-chemical and clinical work on xanthines in the last couple of decades have shown that, though similar in structure, the members of this class have widely varying pharmacology.

In fact, there is only one effect that seems to be shared by all trimethyl xanthines: smooth muscle relaxation. It is this action that makes them with the exception of caffeine, whose smooth muscle relaxant effects are diminished by other side effects, good clinical dilators of the bronchi and hence useful in the treatment of asthma.

Over the past year, I have been giving the Yerba mate' tea to my patients who need to stop using caffeine-containing products for health reasons. I have had good feedback on the results. I like having a healthful substitute for coffee, tea and colas to offer them. K.L.P., M.D.

Chemical assays on mate' have traditionally looked for caffeine, and in such tests mateine, being a simple stereo-isomer of caffeine, would test positive. Until recently nobody has looked at the exact structure of the molecule--and, to my knowledge, nobody in the United States has ever made the attempt.

Researchers at the Free Hygienic Institute of Homburg, Germany, concluded that even if there were caffeine in mate', the amount would be so tiny that it would take 100 tea bags of mate' in a six ounce cup of water to equal the caffeine in a six ounce serving of regular coffee.

They make the rather astute observation that it is obvious that the active principle in yerbamate' is not caffeine! But then, we know for sure it is not caffeine, for caffeine is not present at all.

Mateine, then, has a unique pharmacology and it is unfair to compare it to caffeine (incidentally, guarana may not contain caffeine either, it may contain something that could be called guaraneine, however that substance looks like it is more deleterious than caffeine!).

Mateine appears to possess the best combination of xanthine properties possible.

For example, like other xanthines, it stimulates the central nervous system, but unlike most, it is not habituating or addicting. Likewise, unlike caffeine, it induces better, not worse, attributes of sleep.

It is a mild, not a strong, diuretic, as are many xanthines. It relaxes peripheral blood vessels, thereby reducing blood pressure, without the strong effect on the medulla and heart exhibited by some xanthines.

We also know that it improves psychomotor performance without the typical xanthine-induced depressant after effects.

Dr. Jose Martin, Director of the National Institute of Technology in Paraguay, writes, New research and better technology have shown that while mate'ine has a chemical constituency similar to caffeine, the molecular binding is different.

Mateine has none of the ill effects of caffeine. And Horacio Conesa, professor at the University of Buenos Aires Medical School, states, There is not a single medical contraindication for ingesting mate'.

Clinical studies show, in fact, that individuals with caffeine sensitivities can ingest mate' without adverse reactions.

The time has come, therefore, to discard the outmoded ideas that
(1) xanthines are all alike,
(2) that yerbamate' contains caffeine, and
(3) that mateine is identical with caffeine. It would be tragic indeed if nature created such a beneficial plant and then, through some bizarre quirk, contaminated it with caffeine.

It is more likely that mate' is, as some say, Natures most perfect beverage, or, as others maintain, the beverage of the Gods.

Summarizing the clinical studies of France, Germany, Argentina and other countries, it appears that we may be dealing here with the most powerful rejuvenator known to man. Unlike the guarana of the Tupi, the coca of the Incas, the coffee of India, or the tea of China, mate' rejuvenates not by the false hopes of caffeine, but simply through the wealth of its nutrients.

By Daniel Mowry, PhD
http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/yer_02.htm

Peace,

Maui
 
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