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WTF CETA

wickedken

TRIBE Member
What's this about? Why is this being presented as an outlier being an obstruction? What's the real amount of care being paid to this in Europe?
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
So as trade deals get bigger this is the kind of thing that can happen - each country has its own mix of stakeholders, some getting advantages, some disadvantages. As deals shape up the winners and losers start lobbying.

Clearly in Wallonia, their stakeholder map was weighted more to the side that thought the deal was bad - so much so that the deal is threatened.

This happens all the time and sometimes nations that were supportive of deals will turn later on as they respond to these pressures - others will become supportive from a similar dynamic on the other side.

Trade deals are complicated things - they impact so many people, and once the negotiations start what ends up on the table can look very different - and nations and stakeholders within nations can "flip"quite easily when the negotiated deal, a product of serious horsetrading, becomes known in detail and the winners and losers start to appreciate their advantages and disadvantages.

The cynicism over Hillary's changing position on TPP may be warranted, but almost no one discusses the way trade deals work and how changed positions are to be expected as the deal evolves and stakeholders within nations apply pressure.
 

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
It sounds like a North vs South thing... (Read 'Upper vs Lower Class' )

From one of my right wing lassiez faire subscriptions:

we begin by noting that despite the return to Canada of the Canadian Trade Representative, Ms. Christian Freeland, the Canadian Europeans free trade agreement is still not entirely “dead.” The Walloons still oppose the agreement and it is still stunningly idiotic to us to believe that a quasi-nation… half of Belgium… of 3.5 million people has the legislative power to stop an agreement that would strongly benefit the 500+ million in the European Union but such are the vagaries of the EU’s constitution and laws. Agreements as broad as the CETA need unanimity for passage and the Walton's have been able to keep Belgium as a whole unable to vote yes or no and hence unanimity is impossible.

The President of the European Council… and just how many different “Presidents” does Europe have at this point? We have lost count and this is one of the reasons why we find the whole Europeans “experiment” eventually destined to failure; but that is another question for another time, isn’t it?... Mr. Donald Tusk has had conversations with Canada’s Prime Minister, young Mr. Trudeau, and said after those conversations that the agreement is still alive.

Ms. Freeland said too that the agreement is not entirely “dead” but that “The ball is in Europe’s court.”

It is interesting to note that the political leader of the Walloons, Mr. Paul Magnette, said yesterday that Wallonia “Will never decide anything under and ultimatum or pressure.”

At the same time, the leader of Flanders… the northern, more prosperous half of Belgium… Mr. Geert Bourgeois said that the actions taken by the Walloons are “A real shame” and have made Belgium “the laughing stock of the whole world.” Mr. Bourgeois is absolutely correct; the world is indeed laughing at Belgium while shaking it's head at Wallonia.
 
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praktik

TRIBE Member
How so ? She ran back home crying. She failed at her job. How is she Politically Fit for the job she was appointed to do ?
Cause she has awareness and expertise so many other politicians lack. I have confidence she appreciates things like the danger of widening inequality and the new tier the super-rich have created for themselves that can defy the constraints of national borders. She is not a free market fundamentalist.

When multi-party deals fall apart no one party is at fault, she can't be held responsible for what some people in Belgium or France or UK think or do about the deal
 

wickedken

TRIBE Member
How so ? She ran back home crying. She failed at her job. How is she Politically Fit for the job she was appointed to do ?
How's it her fault? If anyone blame should go to Trudeau (see: blame Harper) and authentically because he obviously didn't foresee or authorize the concessions necessary to make these Walloons happy. Maybe he was busy doing a photo-op.

And... how is anyone politically fit to do the job? Anyone catch that bit about how Transport Canada is allowing pilots to retain their license purely through simulators? And how Marc Garneau, the Minister, and a former astronaut and CF-18 pilot himself, knew nothing about it.

Seriously did these ministers think their jobs would be a walk in the park?
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
Also this deal was first negotiated 8 years ago.

The stakeholder war has been ongoing that long. Where we are now will be way different than where everyone thought we would be when this all started.
 
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ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
Another Chrystia Freeland WTF ?
Freeland letter says U.S. senators being misled on softwood
Mr. Shlomi6 hours ago
I am starting to feel sorry for this minister. She is clearly not up to the strategic gamesmanship and tactical manoeuvres that constitute international trade negotiations.
I think PM Absent should find a ministry for her where she wont simply blame the other side for her negotiation failures...it would be more productive and in the long run more beneficial for Canada.

Chrystia Freeland's 'Public' TPP Consultations Are Anything But
She hasn't got a single thing right so far.
 

ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
Trudeau signals renewed support for Trans-Pacific Partnership

Anne Peterson15 hours ago
The same thing is wrong with the TTP and the TTIP that is wrong with CETA. They all have the same kind of foreign dispute mechanisms in which foreign corporations can sue any level of government if their regulations, whether social or environmental or otherwise, interfere with profits. And then the suit goes to a secret panel to be settled and the public will never know anything about it. It takes away our sovereignty. How can our politicians say yes to this sort of thing.
 
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wickedken

TRIBE Member
So CETA is considered being further in the line of the trade treaties trade that includes provisions for companies to seek redress for broken contracts by the treaty signatory. I've seen some articles in NP and STAR about companies suing Canada via Ontario under NAFTA provisions and about re "green contracts" that were cancelled and it's typically of the form of a non-completed, bonds paid and then possibly a broken contract, hence the lawsuit. CETA it seems contains similar provisions and this was the main "anti" element, with many agreeing that purely economic benefits were win-win. It seems solely on the EU side that this treaty is only a precursor to what is perceived to be more difficult negotiations with either the UK and US.

The most useful pages I found here were the EU site (CETA - EU-Canada Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement) and then the Canada site which breaks down benefits by industry (Key sectors).
 
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