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Will Const. James Forcillo get off for gunning down Sammy Yatim?
- Thread starter alexd
- Start date
DJ Vuvu Zela
TRIBE Member
i'm guessing he'll get a slap on the wrist.
from what i understand in the case i think he deserves some jail time.
from what i understand in the case i think he deserves some jail time.
Bass-Invader
TRIBE Member
Doubt it will be so straightforward.
It sounds like it will be rather difficult for the prosecution to disprove that the first set of shots were self-defence given that at the time of the shots Y was 10 feet and closing on F with a weapon.
The attempted murder charge for the second set of shots might have a bit more traction, but I suspect it will still be very difficult to make stick. The defence will be able to put a case that F thought Y was getting ready to jump back up, and will have armfuls of expert evidence showing how a fight/flight response can alter perceptions of reality.
Any prosecutor will have a difficult time rubbishing all of that beyond a reasonable doubt.
It sounds like it will be rather difficult for the prosecution to disprove that the first set of shots were self-defence given that at the time of the shots Y was 10 feet and closing on F with a weapon.
The attempted murder charge for the second set of shots might have a bit more traction, but I suspect it will still be very difficult to make stick. The defence will be able to put a case that F thought Y was getting ready to jump back up, and will have armfuls of expert evidence showing how a fight/flight response can alter perceptions of reality.
Any prosecutor will have a difficult time rubbishing all of that beyond a reasonable doubt.
el presidente Highsteppa
TRIBE Member
Slap on the wrist and maybe disciplinary action from the force.
That's it. I can't foresee him getting hung out to dry - thin blue line in full effect.
That's it. I can't foresee him getting hung out to dry - thin blue line in full effect.
cosmosuave
TRIBE Member
All with full pay of course...
Klubmasta Will
TRIBE Member
^ wow.
history has shown that cops rarely suffer real penalty for inappropriate actions. that said, the public outcry around this incident has been significant, so hopefully the jury hands down a penalty that will result in deterring such reckless police behaviour in future.
history has shown that cops rarely suffer real penalty for inappropriate actions. that said, the public outcry around this incident has been significant, so hopefully the jury hands down a penalty that will result in deterring such reckless police behaviour in future.
After seeing that video, I have no issue with the officer shooting.
however I fail to understand why the taser wasn't used first and why 9 shots needed to be fired upon him.
The videos do not make the police look very well trained and almost entirely imply the shoot first ask questions later mentality.
I'm sure the mental health angle is going to get played up on this matter but I don't see the relevance given what transpired, he had a knife and was threatening the public, then refused to disarm when commanded.
having said this I don't think he deserved to die but I'll be surprised if the officer serves any time
however I fail to understand why the taser wasn't used first and why 9 shots needed to be fired upon him.
The videos do not make the police look very well trained and almost entirely imply the shoot first ask questions later mentality.
I'm sure the mental health angle is going to get played up on this matter but I don't see the relevance given what transpired, he had a knife and was threatening the public, then refused to disarm when commanded.
having said this I don't think he deserved to die but I'll be surprised if the officer serves any time
At the time of this incident, only the supervisor would have had a taser gun.
SneakyPete
TRIBE Member
I believe the office with the taser did not arrive until after he was shot.
I think Forcillo definitely pulled the trigger too early. Forcillo shot him almost immediately when Yatim came back to the door after going off screen in the video. Defence will argue he thought Yatim went back in the streetcar to grab a gun or that he was going to jump out of the car.
The most comparable incident to this one is the greyhound decapitation incident. the guys is on the streetcar, armed and nobody else is on with him. The officers that responded first could have waited for the supervisor to show up with the taser, as I understand it it's mainly senior officers that carry tasers at the TPS. There was no risk to the public nor the officers at the time of the shooting, they clearly could have waited or attempted to de-escalate the situation before choosing that solution.
Tobywan while I appreciate you wanting to make the officers look bad, they did not look like a pack of wolves. They looked disorganized and unsure what to do. This guy pulled a knife on public transit and created a dangerous situation, he is not a victim regardless of the fact that the response was excessive. The use of force whenever someone is a danger to the public as a whole is generally warranted, it's the amount of force and it's reasonableness that come into question.
Where you and I will agree is that the response was an over-reaction and there were better ways to handle it but to make the police the bad guys in this situation is very narrowminded. He had a knife and threatened people with it.
You really need to stop painting the police and other enforcement agencies with the same brush every time something happens, each situation is different and we have to not make martyrs out of criminals. The second he started threatening people with the knife he became a criminal.
Tobywan while I appreciate you wanting to make the officers look bad, they did not look like a pack of wolves. They looked disorganized and unsure what to do. This guy pulled a knife on public transit and created a dangerous situation, he is not a victim regardless of the fact that the response was excessive. The use of force whenever someone is a danger to the public as a whole is generally warranted, it's the amount of force and it's reasonableness that come into question.
Where you and I will agree is that the response was an over-reaction and there were better ways to handle it but to make the police the bad guys in this situation is very narrowminded. He had a knife and threatened people with it.
You really need to stop painting the police and other enforcement agencies with the same brush every time something happens, each situation is different and we have to not make martyrs out of criminals. The second he started threatening people with the knife he became a criminal.
glych t.anomaly
TRIBE Member
It was a 4 inch blade, which he was barely wielding with aggression, he was walking slowly, and didnt touch a person on the street car with it. LOTS of us on this website have done illegal shit making us criminals in our past.
But in this case, the response to the situation is not just excessive, but unwarranted!
He was surrounded, on a street car with nowhere to go. They could have fucking starved him out, waited till he slept or used proper procedure and force warranting the response.
Shooting a kid with a pocket knife !! its fucking bullshit, these people protecting us are SUPPOSED to be able to use logic and reason and not just help with the safety and security of the public that are not the person with the knife , but ALL people.
The fucking idiots that shot this kid that many times, should have their badges stripped, their pensions taken away, and an example made of them that we dont allow MURICA related police responses in our cities and country.
The cops could have taken him down with bare hands, this whole trial is laughable.
But in this case, the response to the situation is not just excessive, but unwarranted!
He was surrounded, on a street car with nowhere to go. They could have fucking starved him out, waited till he slept or used proper procedure and force warranting the response.
Shooting a kid with a pocket knife !! its fucking bullshit, these people protecting us are SUPPOSED to be able to use logic and reason and not just help with the safety and security of the public that are not the person with the knife , but ALL people.
The fucking idiots that shot this kid that many times, should have their badges stripped, their pensions taken away, and an example made of them that we dont allow MURICA related police responses in our cities and country.
The cops could have taken him down with bare hands, this whole trial is laughable.
Klubmasta Will
TRIBE Member
well then you do have an issue with the officer shooting. i think most would agree that the first 3 shots fired, while reckless and stupid, is somewhat defensible, but there is no justification for pumping 6 more bullets into the guy after he is already lying on his back dying.
ndrwrld
TRIBE Member
furthermore, the 6 shots did nothing more to Sammy than make him twitch.
just after the first 3 shots, he wasn't moving enough for any sane and responsible person to think " oh oh, he's going to get up again ".
Once the cops arrived on scene, Sammy moved right to the front of the streetcar, knife in hand, guns drawn to him. he mouthed off, and took a couple steps back, to the yellow / white line. then, he took a step forward, and was shot.
that last step forward, was half the distance he moved forward when they first showed up.
Sammy wasn't a threat to anyone, to justify 2 gun exchanges involving 3 and then 6 bullets.
this cops needs to do time.
glych t.anomaly
TRIBE Member
Yeah sure its more than enough to kill, when used properly by someone with intent.
i have watched the long and short videos found online, the kid had MORE than ample opportunity to take the knife out and stab/cut/scrape/dice anyone he wanted.
Even when he was menacingly waving the knife around, not once did he lunge or use any truly aggressive tactic.
Keeping him on the street car? are you serious? there was a gaggle of fucking giant armor covered burley mans man cops outside , that could have kept him on the street car by standing a meter away from the door and poking him back in with unloaded shotguns, they could have tazed him,
OR
Get this, they could have actually spent 10-15 mins trying to TALK the kid down, instead of shooting him when hes by himself on a street car and no threat to anyone, literally.
and i have seen kids his size with a practice knife disabled by less trained individuals in many class situations, and the cops , they are taught how to do so in far more aggresive situations that i have experienced.
This was the most pathetic , disorganized attempt at helping a disturbed kid that wasnt half the size of any of those cops with a wee little knife that is legally able to be concealed and that he did not use once to hurt someone when he had more than ample opportunity.
its fucking bullshit, it reeks of terrible rationale, and i for one am FAR MORE TERRIFIED to be protected by those cops, than hoodrat punks wielding Victoria Nox.
Maybe if he had been the Techno Viking weilding the Sword of Schanara like the Swede that was killed yesterday this would have been a reasonable response.... maybe.
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Didn't he actually pull the knife out and attempt to slice a womens neck on the streetcar? everything I read has said this
glych t.anomaly
TRIBE Member
that is the bottom video, in the link that was posted up top, you see him take his knife out and swipe at her.
Again, he does that but doesnt hit her with it, he stands up aggressively and points with it, he erraticially waves it around, but not once does he actually stick someone with it, with more than ample opportunity.
He also raises his hands as he sees the cops approaching him, shortly before he was killed, that looked much more like hes actually thinking fuck im in trouble for a second, but then goes back to hard ass.
I think this kid was fucked up a bit in the head, nothing he did was cool, and he should have been apprehended and dealt with accordingly. But how the fuck if you actually intend to hurt people rather than scaring them off the street car, do you not succeed in stabbing or cutting anyone ?
IMO it was a sad cry for attention, to make or prove something or whatever the fuck, but if the kid really wanted to hurt someone, it would have happened.
SneakyPete
TRIBE Member
I don't know if he was trying to slice her neck but it certainly was aggressive. You can see it here:
Christie Blatchford: New Sammy Yatim videos like watching a horror flick
Also, why does he have his dick out?
glych t.anomaly
TRIBE Member
I just have one other question, for all the Tribe parents, if this was your kid, do you still agree with the police procedural tactics ???