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Where do we draw the line..

ludikris

TRIBE Member
Before you all freak out.. I'm only asking for constructive opinions...

I Give out a few hundred Cd's here and there but definitely less than a thousand in my lifetime. Now that the web makes downloading music so easy and so broad, I wonder when the line must be drawn. If people post high quality mp3 mix sessions for free and include other people's music without paying royalties, How long till these artists and labels start to notice and freak out on Dj's for doing this??

It's not like dj's are giving out a few cd's here and there for promotion. Once it's on the web, everyone in the world is capable of downloading the music which could mean a huge loss for the music industry depending on how many people discover the link.

As far as I know (Alex D can verify this ) www.tribe.ca gets millions of hits and does count for something when you consider the magnitude of the situation...

Perhaps public linking of high quality mix sessions should be prohibited. After all, what's the difference if I link to a page that is pirating software.

Opinions ??
 
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zoo

TRIBE Member
Ask ISOPRAX, ODDMYTH, or JON TREMBLAY about their bandwidth statistics ... they've posted more mixes than anyone else around here ..

I bet the number of downloads per mix would be less than 20-30

say 40 downloads [being generous] divided by 4,000 users = 1% of users






everyone seems to think we're all leeching machines ... but by far most people aren't because they simply aren't interested :)
 

ludikris

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by zoo
Ask ISOPRAX, ODDMYTH, or JON TREMBLAY about their bandwidth statistics ... they've posted more mixes than anyone else around here ..

I bet the number of downloads per mix would be less than 20-30

say 40 downloads [being generous] divided by 4,000 users = 1% of users






everyone seems to think we're all leeching machines ... but by far most people aren't because they simply aren't interested :)
So do you think it's ok to download other peoples tunes for free because in your opinion .." most people simply aren't interested ?"

You're essentially contradicting yourself because the music is produced for people who ARE INTERESTED in that style.

I just think the net is far too global for the free distribution of unlicensed music.

For example, it may be common to hear people verbally bash others when it's ear to ear but if someone was to put up a website dedicated to the same it would be frowned upon.

ay ?
 

zoo

TRIBE Member
i think what i'm saying is that this board is by no means a tool of widespread music piracy

mix sets are used as a method of promotion for not only that DJ but the genre of music itself, personally i think mix sets have done more to keep the electronic dance-music scene alive than anything else

but i'm just a regular person that ultimately pays money to go to club nights and see djs after listening to their illegally pirated mixes on my computer, what do i know
 

zoo

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by ludikris
Once it's on the web, everyone in the world is capable of downloading the music which could mean a huge loss for the music industry depending on how many people discover the link.
i'm really not trying to pick a fight with you, just trying to show you there is another side to this beside the pessimisstic "starving artist" frame of mind :)

in that quote you assume that sole availability will help spread music

i just searched for "isoprax" who recently released to the net a great rob hood compilation [without paying royalties!], and one result came up ... "seeker" from this very board ... is anyone really "losing huge profits" because one person out of 500,000 has this mix set?

in theory, mix sets are piracy, blah blah blah

in practice, i can download that particular mix set from one entire user on a network of who knows how many ... hundreds of thousands of users?

on the other hand, there are quite a few results for two of your remixes, dangerous and love like sleep

now ask yourself this:

would you rather keep these songs exclusive to whatever medium they were released on, or would you make them available to more people in an attempt at publicity?



i dunno, i've downloaded one song made by you, that you yourself posted to the producer's forum

does that mean i pirated your music?

... or did you pirate missy elliot's song?
 
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organik

TRIBE Member
I personally don't think a DJ putting his set up for downloading is a problem at all... Considering he is paying $15 or more a pop for a record and promoting the artist on his mixed cd... he shouldn't have to pay royalities, his royalities are paid when he purchases the record.

If it wasn't for the DJ's the artists would be nowhere! It's up to the Artist after gaining popularity to go out and tour and promote his/her music, and make money that way... I think as an Artist I would be really happy that my music was being downloaded for free and reaching a wider audience... Then trying to capitalise on a selected few.

Just the other day on CBC they had a story on a band out of the US that put up their full album on their website for FREE downloading... what started to happen is that they went from 100 hits one week to over 1 million hit in a matter of months... people in every city in the US were downloading there music and wanted to see them live, so they started to book a tour across the country... and this without the help of a major record label. They're doing what they love, selling cd's at there concerts, and making money.

I think there are a few artists out there that are just lazy, that make music and expect the money to just roll in without putting a strong effort into it.... to them I say get off your fat ass and do something about it! times are a changing get with it!

The record companies might be dying, but the artist and their music is still growing!
 

ludikris

TRIBE Member
I am definitely guilty of posting an mp3 or two that I produced in order to get some feedback but it gets removed very shortly..

I was in contact with the Pet Shop Boys management recently who incidentally are interested in adding my bootleg to a Pet Shop Boys Best of.. Compilation and they had no problem with the fact that I gave out a few hundred copies of it in Miami without permission.

I personally dont find it to be a problem to allow a few hundred people access to a bootleg remix. It's just when a compilation of brand new tunes are made available is it really kosher ?


But as I said in the beginning... I'm trying to get people's opinions as to where we draw the line ?

btw.. I know your not picking a fight...it's just a discussion.
 

ludikris

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by organik
I personally don't think a DJ putting his set up for downloading is a problem at all... Considering he is paying $15 or more a pop for a record and promoting the artist on his mixed cd... he shouldn't have to pay royalities, his royalities are paid when he purchases the record.

If it wasn't for the DJ's the artists would be nowhere! It's up to the Artist after gaining popularity to go out and tour and promote his/her music, and make money that way... I think as an Artist I would be really happy that my music was being downloaded for free and reaching a wider audience... Then trying to capitalise on a selected few.

Just the other day on CBC they had a story on a band out of the US that put up their full album on their website for FREE downloading... what started to happen is that they went from 100 hits one week to over 1 million hit in a matter of months... people in every city in the US were downloading there music and wanted to see them live, so they started to book a tour across the country... and this without the help of a major record label. They're doing what they love, selling cd's at there concerts, and making money.

I think there are a few artists out there that are just lazy, that make music and expect the money to just roll in without putting a strong effort into it.... to them I say get off your fat ass and do something about it! times are a changing get with it!

The record companies might be dying, but the artist and their music is still growing!
That's an interesting success story... perhaps it's what the future holds... Similarily, Scumfrog posts his tunes for free download off his website without consequence... so it seems to be more and more common these days.

I just have a hard time believing that artist X would be cool if artist Y put X's tune that was just released on a mix set for free download. Atleast wait six months or something .... i dunno.

Tough call..
 

coleridge

TRIBE Member
I see absolutely nothing wrong with DJ mixes. The reality is we are doing favours for the artists that are in mixes. Perhaps the artist is not getting money everytime someone listens to their track on the mix but what they are getting is exposure. And the more exposure they get the bigger their name becomes. Promotion doesn't come for free, so an artist should realize the money they don't get is payment for the promotion. 99% of electronic music has little to no hope off getting royalties from being played in a public forum anyways. As well the DJs who are big enough to sell a lot of mix CDs are going the legal mix compilation route.


As long as DJs are not profiting off of their mix CDs I think it's fine. In fact I know few people who sell their CDs, most DJs give them away for free. As well I'm assuming the DJ is buying all the music they put on their mix.

What I do hope is that people who listen to DJ mixes and like a particular artist/track will consider buying the album or coming out the hear them play when they are in town. The making of music has become the promotion tool of the DJ.
 
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Jon Tremblay

TRIBE Member
well....

I see nothing wrong with online mixes either. Personally, I have never EVER sold any of my mixes, in fact I have refused payment for mix's that I did. It's such a great promotinal tool for a DJ and for the artist that created the track as Coleridge mentionned.

Since these tracks are mixed together, you aren't sharing the full release of the track, if you were putting out the complete track at high quality then that's a different story and I can see the artist getting pissed.

If a dj can get more people listenning to their mixes....hopefully he/she (see...I recognize female dj's :)) will see a bigger attendance to a night they are playing.
 

ludikris

TRIBE Member
I agree and disagree with things that are mentioned here...

It's tough to really grasp what all the dj / producers wish as far as the whole mix cd thing goes... There has yet to be a worldwide poll asking them to vote or make a stand on how they feel about free online mix compilations.

It's also hard to estimate how many people are satisfied with hearing the main section of a track that is mixed into a comp vs. hearing it dry from start to end... I mean ... honestly how many people will go out and blow their hard earned cash on the intro and outro beats from a tune they enjoyed in a compilation ?? We're not talking pop tunes, we're talking progressive house, trance or whatever... just intro and outro beats.. for the most part.

These days, most dj's have a hot copy of Sound Forge and can rip a track they like eventhough it's mixed in with other tracks... they just loop some beats at the beginning to make it mixable..

Matt, you mention that "99% of electronic music has little to no hope of getting royalties from being played in a public forum.."

Did you know that clubs have to pay out large sums of money to socan and what not somewhat similar to how radio stations do ?? I was blown away when I discovered this at the Comfort Zone one day while chatting with the owner. I also still receive royalty cheques from compilations with a track I did in 2000... It was the first world wide release I ever did that came out on a major compilation garnering some annual pocket money...but hell, every bit counts.

I can appreciate you guys wanting to promote yourselves and artists' music but only time will tell if it stays in the green or not. I know your intentions are positive and your not out to rip anyone off but would you stop doing it if you got an email from someone who's track you showcased in your mix ??? And would you be surprised that they didn't like you doing that ?

Hopefully this online mix compilations situation stays fairly low profile and doesn't affect the market that sustains it. If it starts sinking, we better start battening down the hatches.

Thanks for everyone's input..

*fingers crossed*

Chris.
 

DJ_Science

TRIBE Member
I get about a solid 400-500 MB of band width use on my site a week. At most thats 6 live sets a week, most of which are probably the older ones.
 
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