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What happened? I've be bamboozled like an 18 yr old wanna be starlet in LA.

king of Funk

TRIBE Member
I can understand that the Provincial Liberals have to deal with this deficit but there's no way they didn't know it was comming. A competent accountant with PUBLICALLY available provincial financial statements could have figured it out in about a week with a fucking abacus.

I want a balanced budget as much as the next guy (which thinking about it is not very much at all). I just don't understand why we can't stick to the tried and tested method of passing on the costs of our lifestyle to our grandchildren?

McGuinty's problem is that he can't raise taxes because the Tories painted him as a tax hiking communist. So the solution is to back off on as much spending as he can get away with

Take The TTC.

One way cash fares for a sample of comparable cities:

Washington DC C$2.00

Boston about C$1..30

Chicago less than C$2.00

Paris Metro less than C$2.00

Both Paris and Chicago cover much larger areas than the TTC and the DC metro has much fewer passengers (most people commute via car or train from maryland and virginia).

Having taken transit in all the above cities (other than Chi town), I can tell you they are more comfortable and more reliable than the service on the TTC.

--------------------------------

Raise Hydro rates? Sure, instead of working to bring Hydro into the public sector and dissolve the madness that is the Electricity Market. By the way here's a list of the "participants in the Electricty market"

http://www.theimo.com/imoweb/market/participants.asp
For example:
"Brascan Energy Marketing Inc". Who are they and do they care what the average Ontarian pays for their Hydro at home?

So what's the priority striving for a lean fiscally responsible PUBLIC energy utility that provides EVERYONE with affordable power or helping foreign Engery Speculators rinse ca$h. My Hydro rates are going up in the spring so how do you guys feel about a starting an energey trading company based in the Cayman Islands? Shout me if you're in. You can work from home to avoid the impending TTC fare hike to $5.00.

---------------------------------------

Cigarettes.

This is my Favourite. The easiest way to combat the scourge of tobacco diseases on our society is to?...............Ban them right?

NO.

The answer is to raise tobacco taxes. Really it is.

Look at it this way. If I'm on welfare and I have a monthly check of $600 a month after rent. Needless to say I'm a regluar smoker(likely because the majority of regular smokers are low income). If I smoke 5 packs a week that's about $215 a month. How much of that goes back to the government half?. Nice business to be in.

A bigger question is what exactly are the ethics of taxing peoples addiction? Good , bad , Tolerable if you don't smoke?


At the end of it all screw me if you have the power to do so....but try not treat me like an idiot while you're doing it.

Bring back the Tories?.......That's another story.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
The wrose you let it get the more people will appreciate you. If you let it go to 2.50 its a %20 drop when you bring it down to $2 rather than the %12.5. It looks better in your third year just before the election is called.

You blame everything on the previous guy for the first year, you scrimp the first two years, and you butter up years three and four. Its part of the four year cycle that is democracy.
 

king of Funk

TRIBE Member
Ditto Much:

The Shady Pimping Company of Grand Cayman would like to offer you a position as VP of Operations....Welcome aboard mate.

Let's get this thing staffed ASAP.
 

wayne kenoff

TRIBE Member
I don't think essential resources like hydro and drinking water should ever be privatized. They belong to all Canadians, and we are the ones who should profit with any surpluses.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by king of Funk
Ditto Much:

The Shady Pimping Company of Grand Cayman would like to offer you a position as VP of Operations....Welcome aboard mate.

Let's get this thing staffed ASAP.
I am unable to travel to the Cayman islands, however if we can meet in Sark I'm up for the interview
 
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Chris

Well-Known TRIBEr
Great post,
what would have been even more frightening is if the PC's actually got elected. How would they have kept their promise of a balanced budget?

I don't understand how they didn't know, I blame both sides. The PC's for trying to cover it up, the Liberals for making promises they couldn't keep, knowing full well they wouldn't be able to keep them.

More than heads should just roll, people should really be going to jail for this sort of mismanagement with the publics trust and hard earn dollars. Its not their money, so why should they care, there is very little in accountability.

It will be interesting to see what public assets the Liberals will sell off in order to cut down on their project deficit.

I really had some hope this election, I thought their might be some more openness with the Liberals, and some simple honesty.

The one thing I like so far about the Liberals are doing, water management. They plan on putting some sort of expense on private companies for exporting or bottling water! I mean I had no idea we have been giving away water for free?
 

Chris

Well-Known TRIBEr
A historic new course for Ontario

Ontario's new government has set the province on a historic new course, says Premier Dalton McGuinty.

"On October 2nd, Ontarians chose change and change is what we've delivered," McGuinty said.

"After 58 days in office, we have not only changed the direction ofgovernment. We have done much more than that. We have set Ontario on a historic new course."

During the fall legislative session, the government provided help for struggling students in public schools, banned pay-your-way-to-the-front-of-the-line health care and introduced bold measures
to protect our water and stop urban sprawl.

The real, positive changes include action to:

-Cancel the private school tax credit so money will stay in our public schools.
-Provide $112 million to help students struggling to learn,read, write and do math.
-Raise the minimum wage for the first time in nearly nineyears.
- Expose the mess at Ontario Power Generation, including falling incomes and rising cost overruns on the Pickering "A" project.
- Hire drinking-water inspectors and meat inspectors.
- Turn P3 hospitals into publicly owned hospitals.
- Change the Planning Act to curb sprawl.
- Work with the federal government to obtain additional funding for health care, SARS relief, farmers and highways.

The government also took decisive action to tackle the $5.6 billion deficit it inherited from the Tories. The measures, which include the cancellation of irresponsible Tory tax cuts, will generate savings of $795 million in 2003-2004, $2.8 billion the following year and $3.7 billion in2005-2006.

"We pledged to work as hard as the people we're privileged to represent,and we are working hard to deliver real, positive change," McGuinty said.

"In the new year, we're going to continue to work with the people of Ontario, engaging them in a dialogue on how we can transform government, totackle the fiscal challenge and make public services work better for them."
 

DaPhatConductor

TRIBE Promoter
I voted NDP just like I always will.

The Saskatchewan NDP party were the first party in Canada to balance their province's budget, and they did it up proper by keeping it real to all the social programmes, etc. Just because we had an Ontario NDP government with a moron leader during a recession doesn't mean the NDP are useless, it just ruined Ontario's opinion of them.

When you look at your alternatives it's really the only sane choice.

Here's how it usually goes in Ontario:

Liberals come in: big mess left by PC party, the renege on their promises, try to undo SOME of the PC problems, don't spearhead anything dramatically new, then try to make themselves look good near the end of the term.

People then either re-elect them, or accept the PC tax bribes and...

PC party comes in: bribes morons with tax cuts and vicious slashing of needed budgets, advances neo-con agenda and causes mad havok until people get sick of them and vote in the liberals...

It's a gradual slide to in one direction, the Libs only stall it for a bit until the PC get re-elected. We need to start moving in the other direction ASAFP.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by DaPhatConductor
I voted NDP just like I always will.

The Saskatchewan NDP party were the first party in Canada to balance their province's budget, and they did it up proper by keeping it real to all the social programmes, etc. Just because we had an Ontario NDP government with a moron leader during a recession doesn't mean the NDP are useless, it just ruined Ontario's opinion of them.

When you look at your alternatives it's really the only sane choice.

Here's how it usually goes in Ontario:

Liberals come in: big mess left by PC party, the renege on their promises, try to undo SOME of the PC problems, don't spearhead anything dramatically new, then try to make themselves look good near the end of the term.

People then either re-elect them, or accept the PC tax bribes and...

PC party comes in: bribes morons with tax cuts and vicious slashing of needed budgets, advances neo-con agenda and causes mad havok until people get sick of them and vote in the liberals...

It's a gradual slide to in one direction, the Libs only stall it for a bit until the PC get re-elected. We need to start moving in the other direction ASAFP.

balanced my ass they still recieved more in government ransfer than they collected in taxes. Without ontario and alberta paying the major tab they would be noweher near balanced.

Not even close!!
 
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Static EQ

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by king of Funk

The answer is to raise tobacco taxes. Really it is.

Look at it this way. If I'm on welfare and I have a monthly check of $600 a month after rent. Needless to say I'm a regluar smoker(likely because the majority of regular smokers are low income). If I smoke 5 packs a week that's about $215 a month. How much of that goes back to the government half?. Nice business to be in.

A bigger question is what exactly are the ethics of taxing peoples addiction? Good , bad , Tolerable if you don't smoke?

I can really see a crack dealer saying...

"Yo, youve got to get off this crack man, so were going to be raising the prices 30% to help you out"
 

DaPhatConductor

TRIBE Promoter
Originally posted by Ditto Much
balanced my ass they still recieved more in government ransfer than they collected in taxes. Without ontario and alberta paying the major tab they would be noweher near balanced.

Not even close!!
well at the end of the day their province has no more debt now.
 

416

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Ditto Much
balanced my ass they still recieved more in government ransfer than they collected in taxes. Without ontario and alberta paying the major tab they would be noweher near balanced.

Not even close!!
What the fuck are you talking about?

Source please.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by 416
What the fuck are you talking about?

Source please.

http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/FTPTe.html


The Federal government.



Every year the federal government provides significant resources to the provinces and territories under four major programs. In 2003-04, provincial and territorial governments will receive $51.7 billion in federal transfers.

See the source of the 51.7 billion is Ontario and Alberta. We in Toronto pay the way for the entire east coast and all of the provinces. Alberta pays for the remainder on Quebec (they should have truely balanced in the fucking 60's!!!!) and basically pays for the territories as well as our military and admin.

equalization (péréquation).

Federal transfer program that allows all provinces, regardless of their ability to raise revenue, to provide roughly comparable levels of services at roughly comparable levels of taxation. Eligibility to receive equalization funding is determined by a formula measuring each province's revenue-raising capacity against a five-province standard. Currently, eight provinces receive equalization: Newfoundland, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Quebec, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and British Columbia


Whenever you here about a national program, remember Ontario and Alberta are the ones actually paying for it.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
So in short....

If your books needed to be padded by default the best you can do is keep your budget to a managed loss. You can't possibly balance if your entire education system is paid for by the feeral government.
 
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Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by DaPhatConductor
well at the end of the day their province has no more debt now.

Thats cause we give them the money free of debt!


End of the day we pay around $2300 per year per head for each person who lives there to keep them out of debt!!!! This simply isn't balanced, its a sensible form of charity by a country (read alberta and ontario) that cares. But to rub our noses in it and suggest that they actually balanced there debt is utter bullshit.
 

416

TRIBE Member
LOL

Ya, I know what a transfer payment is. What I'm asking is that you prove your claim that Sask. is heavily dependant on transfers. I didn't ask for some vague "Alberta and Ontario pay for everything..." cack.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by 416
LOL

Ya, I know what a transfer payment is. What I'm asking is that you prove your claim that Sask. is heavily dependant on transfers. I didn't ask for some vague "Alberta and Ontario pay for everything..." cack.




Canada Health and Social Transfer

Cash 706
Tax Points 489
Total 1,194
Health Reform Transfer 31
Equalization 267
Total Major Transfers 1,357


In 2003-04, federal transfers are estimated to account for about 22 per cent of the province’s revenues.


A full 1/5th of there revenue oesn't come from them. they are heavily dependant. Now a solid swing up in wheat price (read NEVER going to happen) and maybe it will balance some day. But as a matter of economics we should pay pople to leave the province, it would be cheaper.

Manitoba is even sillier and lets not touch quebec because they're an utter disappointment.
 

416

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Ditto Much
A full 1/5th of there revenue oesn't come from them.
You meant to say "1/5 of their revenue DOES come from them, right?


they are heavily dependant.
Just like Ontario?


Federal Transfers to Ontario
The federal government provides financial support to the provincial government of Ontario, most notably through the Canada Health and Social Transfer (CHST) and the new Health Reform Transfer created as a result of the February 2003 First Ministers’ Health Care Accord.

It is estimated that in 2003-04, these transfers to Ontario will exceed $15.0 billion (about $1,231 per person).

In 2003-04, federal transfers are estimated to account for about 21 per cent of the province’s revenues.

Care to comment?
 
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Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
yes but ontario recieves non of it in equalization payments.


Canada Health and Social Transfer

Cash 7,541
Tax Points 7,116
Total 14,657

Health Reform Transfer 387
Total Major Transfers 15,043

See no equalization, we are a net exporter of tax money.


Sask on the other hand,..,.

Equalization 267

Collects quite well. As do all other provinces than ontario and alberta.




Now I will agree that I have made a mistake and a misquote. Its closer to 1/8th not 1/5th.

But in the end we still fund them and substantially.
 

416

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Ditto Much
But in the end we still fund them and substantially.
?

250 Million in equalization qualifies as substantial? Are you insane?

Sask is fourth on the list of provinces that receive the least amount in transfer dollars, pretty even with BC... and that's according to your own link!

Also, I don't know what you're taking about re:1/5, 1/8th blah blah blah. The province of saskatchewan receives about 1/5 of it's revenues in the form of transfer payements. 1/5 of those payments are equalization payments.

In short

Equalization to Sask = 4% of revenue. Not what I would call "substantial".

Finally, just because Sask receives an equalization payment does not mean that they are a net tax importer.

Aren't you a programmer? Where the crap did your analytical skill go? Have you been drinking?
 
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