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WARNING: Att'n Producers that send MP3's to Strangers...

D-Monic

TRIBE Member
Got this off the Probreaks list. This stuff makes me sick...

-----------------------------------

From: "Jason - Distortionz"
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 6:43 am
Subject: IMPORTANT!!! EVERYONE PLEASE READ!!!

Has anyone ever been contacted by a person calling himself GIZBOY (gizboy20@hotmail.com) who is from the south of Spain?? He uses MSN, IRC and used to be in the Breaks FM chat room a lot. He has contacted a few people we know (some on this list) trying to swap MP3's with them. He has his hands on alarmingly new music, way before its pressed and way before many big names have it. he has tried swapping new TCR tracks with me and Cyberfunk tracks with someone else.. He was also caught using the Breaks FM chartroom to facilitate file sharing..

DJ Quest and myself had a 3 way conversation with him on MSN (his address is above) and after initially denying it he came clean and admitted all this.. But what alarmed us the most was he told us he had an online shop where he sells CDR's of these tracks, the address we don not have at present. This actually came as no surprise as we have come across people in Spain that have our tracks on CDR. tracks we know have only been sent out to a handful of people "trusted". Gizboy seemed quite chuffed about his achievements.

He is not alone. there is a bigger fish called Farlo that we are trying to get hold of now who does the same thing (he has also contacted people in this group) we have also found out that these people like to buy all the promos of a new track from the shops in the UK and Spain (so no one else can buy them I assume) and then sells CDR's of them. Gizboy was even cheeky enough to ask Decksterity to send him MP3's of new tracks so he could listen before he buys. Once we scratched beneath the surface it turned out many people were aware of all these goings on.

These people and many more like them are probably making more money out of this scene than any of us.. If you have given any unreleased music to these people you can be sure its being sold on CDR for a lot of money. We also have heard stories of computer hacking going on so if you keep any exclusive music on an internet connected pc, I recommend you remove it to a safer place. We have also discovered that people who are involved in the scene that we classed as "whiter then white" were in fact file sharing music.

Please be very careful, these files are reaching these people somehow, sometimes before they reach big DJ's, and we are sure they have music from many artists in this group. If you don't see your music on soulseek do not accept its not being shared, most of the "good stuff" is hidden away in IRC chat rooms and FTP servers.

Anyone on this list that runs a record shop, please contact me off list.

Jason Distortionz + DJ Quest
 
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Spinsah

TRIBE Member
it's a shame that people are profiting on the artistry of others. the apparently malicious motives of those involved is especially unfortunate.

still, when music is circulated online the logic of the network will usurp even the best of intentions. producers need to expect this, and insulate themselves accordingly. the explosion of CDR's being incorporated into the once sacred realm of vinyl-only-djing brings with it certain consequences.

this immediacy and convenience certainly leads to some degree of misappropriation. getting all up in arms about it, is kind of missing the point.

you don't want your track falling into the wrong hands? press it to acetate for promotional purposes, or better yet, limit promo runs all together. while i accept the fact that promotion is an integral part of the business, it also has a tendency to alienate those whom most enthusiastically feed the market.
 

Hispeeddub

TRIBE Member
wow ... that’s pretty sad.... ptp itself is controversial enough ..... but selling tracks to profit yourself ?? that fuckin disgusting.. Another sign of the times I guess. Are there any type of international laws that could be enforced against people who do this type of thing? I guess it leads back to the same issue you have in the mainstream, as long as people resist new technology and new ways of doing things the technology will be used in a way that harms the industry instead of ways that will benefit it.
 
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The Electrician

TRIBE Promoter
Yes.. that why we Canadian labels need to keep our Music underwraps... we cant have our tracks being available before they are for sale... its would be very VERY bad for us...
 

Eclectic

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by The Electrician
Yes.. that why we Canadian labels need to keep our Music underwraps... we cant have our tracks being available before they are for sale... its would be very VERY bad for us...

Or just make sure those that have it are careful and don't share it without your permission....
 

The Electrician

TRIBE Promoter
But who can you trust now a days...


its pretty hard... I have a new thing for womp as well... if I ever find out that the track got leaked, it 1. wont get pressed and 2. you wont be paid for the remix and I have full rights to the track.

its a good way to go... keeps people from speading the good stuff...
 
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Eclectic

TRIBE Member
That's a good policy, but can you afford to do that?

I mean, if you never press a record...how will you make money?
 

The Electrician

TRIBE Promoter
Some names to watch out for...

So we have Gizboy, Farlo... there are also BOSS and Mangueta

they are a ripping crew. Ripping 12"s and then selling them to people.

and yes it is mainly happening in Spain. One of them has already been shut down...

but I find it hard to stop these fucks...

anyways...
 

Spinsah

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by The Electrician
I dont really make money in the first place...
well then if it isn't a matter of monetary gain then release the production to the masses on mp3, dan f does that I believe (or used to) with a lot of his productions.

i don't really understand your arguement, on one hand you want to insulate your record from those who would misapproriate it in order to salvage a profit margin and on the other you conceed that a (pseduo)-independent label like womp really doesn't make money.

here's a question to throw into the melee: does information want to be free?
 

The Electrician

TRIBE Promoter
It worded the post wrong...

I want to make money from it...

Its a hard business to make money in...

I just havent made money from it yet... but I have only put out one record...
 
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docta seuss

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Spinsah

i don't really understand your arguement, on one hand you want to insulate your record from those who would misapproriate it in order to salvage a profit margin and on the other you conceed that a (pseduo)-independent label like womp really doesn't make money.

i think the point is that, not only are folks copying your choons without permission, but it's rather annoying that some people end up making a profit, with no royalties for the producer.

and yeah, he conceeded that a label like womp really doesn't make money, but in no way does that say he doesn't want to make money. it is a metter of monetary gain, meager as that may be, as well as a matter of respect.
 

KickIT

TRIBE Member
A little common sense doesn't hurt either. Don't make digital copies until you have a completed and pressed song. If you have to make a copy, make the sound quality shit, or record it using a different sample rate or create copies with snippets of your track. Relying on the "good will" of people is just plain naive.

*c*
 

DSV

TRIBE Promoter
Originally posted by Spinsah


i don't really understand your arguement, on one hand you want to insulate your record from those who would misapproriate it in order to salvage a profit margin and on the other you conceed that a (pseduo)-independent label like womp really doesn't make money.


Huh? Just because a label doesn't really make any money is not a good reason for that label to lose even more money.
DSV, WOMP, Pure PHunk etc. are not huge money making machines, and the reason for putting out records isn't to get rich.
But when you sink a couple grand into a record label, it would be nice to recoup some of that expense and not have it wittled away by some pirate who has no overhead and makes money of your efforts and those of the artists involved.
That's all!
 

Spinsah

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by TheDirtBikeKid
Do I here an "American Government" conspiracy # 1,000,000,000,000!!!

Dave
if you're referring to my post, then no.

and a big *wank wank* to that suggestion.
 
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Spinsah

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by docta seuss
i think the point is that, not only are folks copying your choons without permission, but it's rather annoying that some people end up making a profit, with no royalties for the producer.
right. i prefaced my first post with this very point.

and yeah, he conceeded that a label like womp really doesn't make money, but in no way does that say he doesn't want to make money. it is a metter of monetary gain, meager as that may be, as well as a matter of respect.
right, and that's what i'm trying to highlight. often respect is sacrificed in order to attempt to make money off a release. there's nothing wrong with wanting to get compensated monetarily for ones creative effort and kudos to those who do. however, it is important to note that respect is often aquired by the unbridled sharing of ones passion. it's a tough balance to strike and promotional material is the achillies heel of this profit/respect binary.
 

Spinsah

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by DSV
Huh? Just because a label doesn't really make any money is not a good reason for that label to lose even more money.
DSV, WOMP, Pure PHunk etc. are not huge money making machines, and the reason for putting out records isn't to get rich.
But when you sink a couple grand into a record label, it would be nice to recoup some of that expense and not have it wittled away by some pirate who has no overhead and makes money of your efforts and those of the artists involved.
That's all!
i'm not lamenting any of these labels for trying to make a profit. i support every one of the candian breaks labels with purchasing every release (even those that i feel are inferior to many international releases merely out of principal) i do this for the sole reason of investing into a scene that means a lot to me.

HOWEVER.

what i'm trying to get at is the vicious cycle of promotional material that has a tendency to alienate those who infuse the vinyl market with their hard earned dollar. take a release like 'kick a hole' or 'we want your soul' that are on promo for so long that when the release actually gets a mass pressing many have lost interest and the realease is thus cheapened. with a label like marine parade this isn't so much of an issue for them financially because they are one of the few breaks label that generate a significant profit. with the canadian labels, if they proceed down this road they risk alienating the market they most depend on!

now, i'm sure all you label owners would agree that you don't make your money from the top tier dj's (they function as a marketing apparatus) you make money off joe breaks dj who comes in off the street and purchases your track.

what i'm really getting at it is this: these pirates have made an unfortunate example of those producers who release their material in massive promotional runs. it's like chuck was saying:
Originally posted by KickIT
Relying on the "good will" of people is just plain naive.
it's a shame that this lesson was learned in such a harsh manner, but the point stands. limit the promo runs (keep it out of digital format) and you're going to increase your profits and not alienate your most important market.
 
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!Myagi!

TRIBE Member
fact is, cdr charting has now become ridiculously commonplace, to the point of being a status thing. (playing unreleased tracks gives the illusion of being "in the loop")

limiting promo runs will do virtually nothing, as anyone who wants to encode off of vinyl can. ive found unreleased material of mine on soulseek, which will never now see the light of day. if ideas of mine which were merely loops (not yet songs) are passed around, how is it possible to expect the new promos of a big name's single to stay off of p2p networking? it isnt.

its simple. the next few years are going to be shitty, tough and trying. at the end, once file sharing has been reeled in (or once music formats change) those who make it through the time period will be stronger and better off for it. in the meantime, the only way to combat piracy is on the grassroots level, through decentralization of labels and strict control on master copies.
 

Spinsah

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by !Myagi!
at the end, once file sharing has been reeled in (or once music formats change) those who make it through the time period will be stronger and better off for it.
file sharing will never be reeled in.

what kind of format change do you envision which would exist outside the realm of digital information? (cannot be stored and consequently transferred)
 

Spinsah

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by !Myagi!
in the meantime, the only way to combat piracy is on the grassroots level, through decentralization of labels and strict control on master copies.
so by this logic would promo runs be limited or eliminated all together?
 
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