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Vote extends commitment to Afghanistan by 2 years

Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
I'm just curious... read the following then see the question after.

I know it borders on politics, but I figured the question is for Canadians in general and is not limited to a political issue.

Vote could extend Canada's commitment to Afghanistan by 2 years
Last Updated Mon, 15 May 2006 21:47:46 EDT
CBC News

The Conservative government plans to introduce what has been described as a "substantial" motion in the House of Commons this week that could add two years to Canada's troop commitment in Afghanistan.

The current mission is scheduled to end in February 2007, but since coming to power, the Conservatives have told Canadians that they believe the military should stay for the long haul.

The issue has been discussed in the backrooms on Parliament Hill for the past few days. But pressure from the Harper government came to a head on Monday afternoon, resulting in an agreement from all parties for a debate on Afghanistan beginning Wednesday at 3 p.m. ET.

The debate will last six hours, and there will be a vote at 9:15 p.m. on extending the mission.

If the vote passes, the mission would be extended to February 2009.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/05/15/debate05152006.html

What are your thoughts on this? Should Canada stay in Afghanistan or leave as scheduled in February '07?
 
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chooch

TRIBE Member
my hopes are that the vote would be "no" to an extention of Canadian troops in Afganistan. why should Canada be supporting the US agenda in the middle east.
 
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quantumize

TRIBE Member
I have my opinions on this issue, they are, however uneducated.

What is our aim in Afghanisan ?
What do we hope to accomplish ?
 

Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
I'm also curious because apparently 63% of Canadians support the notion. I was just hoping to hear more from this majority demographic.
 

chooch

TRIBE Member
Boss Hog said:
Well arguably because we're helping a struggling nation that needs it.
are we really "helping" people who want our help? Russia and the US have failed in Afgainstan...what makes us think we'll succeed there?
 

Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
I really don't know, but what I've seen on the news is lots of farmers thanking armed Canadians.

("Thanks for helping us cultivate our poppies"?)
 

HaliBubba

TRIBE Promoter
chooch said:
are we really "helping" people who want our help? Russia and the US have failed in Afgainstan...what makes us think we'll succeed there?

Russia and the US weren't trying to keep the country together. We are providing infrastructure to the country, not trying to remove it.
 
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chooch

TRIBE Member
have a sister in the army and allot of her friends that are coming back home are not dealing with people who want their help. they are returning after a tour over there horribly traumatized. (i didn't realize setting up infastructure would be so hellish!)
 
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soulbrother 10

TRIBE Member
This important issue has not been fully debated.

Why are we there? How do we tell the good guys from the bad guys? What are we hoping to accomplish? How will we know when we've succeeded or failed? Are our goals realistic? Are military solutions the right option if we really want to help these people? Who is calling the shots, us or the Americans?

Now the Harper gang wants to hold a six hour parliamentary debate and commit to another 2 years. What's the rush? There are too many unanswered questions.
 

~atp~

TRIBE Member
^^^ Those may be better questions, but they are not coming from the correct source. A legitimate Afghani government (one that is democratically representative of the people) is the only one that should be empowered to make military decisions for its people. Those decisions should constitute actions that fall within the Geneva conventions and Canada's support should align with those of the Afghani government, provided they are intended to achieve peace and security for the people; this in addition to ensuring that those intentions are stated explicitly and clearly by our government.
 
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starr

TRIBE Member
i don't really think this is a real issue for me

it feels more like a smokescreen to divert attention away from domestic issues and an opportunity to seem 'patriotic'....although admittedly i'm not fully versed in the issue

other issues feel more important to me (child care, etc.)
 

dicksherwood

TRIBE Member
the most recent polls showed less than half of Canadians support the mission in Afghanistan and something close to 3/4 of Quebecois disapprove of our involvement there. As a gov't that needs votes in Quebec to win a majority this move by the Cons surprises me. Especially since the next election will likely occur before Feb 2009.

We are not there as part of a UN mission. UN missions don't fight. Canadians are not wearing blue UN helmets or driving in UN jeeps. They are not peacekeepers.

Make no mistake, Canadian soldiers are there as a fighting force, to put down the resistance in Afghanistan. Canadian soldiers are there to kill or capture. They are under US/NATO command.

I do not believe Canadians should be there. I believe our soldiers should only be used for defensive purposes, to protect Canadian sovereignity in Canada. To defend our borders. Let the rest of the world deal with their own problems.

If we want to help we can send money, food, maybe police to train Afghani police, firefighters to train Afghani firefighters, teachers, electoral monitors, engineers...these help build countries and democracies.

Remember that young Canadian men are being killed in Afghanistan for a questionable purpose. Possibly our involvement there will lead to acts of terrorism on our own soil. For what? What do the families of those Canadian men dying over there cling to when bodies are sent back. They can say their sons fought for their country...but why? What are we fighting for?

Canadians are dying likely to make the Americans happy. If you think that is justifiable support the ongoing effort in Afghanistan.
 

quantumize

TRIBE Member
I do not support Canadian military action with the exception of defence.

Change in Soverign nations should come from within, not be exerted upon it by outside forces. The only exception to this is genocides, and other such atrocities.
 
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Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
Can someone help me out - I can't seem to find the time when the Canadian role shifted from peace keeping to fighting.
 

dicksherwood

TRIBE Member
Boss Hog said:
Can someone help me out - I can't seem to find the time when the Canadian role shifted from peace keeping to fighting.

when the Americans said get involved or we'll stop subsidizing your nice little lifestyle.
 
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starr

TRIBE Member
dicksherwood said:
I do not believe Canadians should be there. I believe our soldiers should only be used for defensive purposes, to protect Canadian sovereignity in Canada. To defend our borders. Let the rest of the world deal with their own problems.
Often it is better to be proactive than reactive.

I would prefer troops in Afghanistan over Iraq. (Edit: Defending one's borders is not as black and white as you are making it to be).

I am not saying we should be there, but we are already. I just think this is a convenient flashpoint that easily distracts from domestic issues that can have far more of an effect on the majority of Canadians.

Bush pulls this move all the time. Meh.
 

dicksherwood

TRIBE Member
Boss Hog said:
Was that after or before the change in government here?

Dude it started with the first Gulf War, then our contribution of fighter bombers in Bosnia...don't forget Canada, along with the US, was one of the first countries in Afghanistan after the WTC attacks (remember the 4 Canadian soldiers killed by US bombers in 02?)

Unfortunately when somewhere around 80% of your national income depends on another country, and you REALLY like the lifestyle that money pays for, that other country is going to be able to influence your policy.

Our benefactors down south got bored of us playing int'l cubscout and have demanded we step up our involvement in their foreign (mis)adventures...what would you do?
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
When things get rough we pull out in a diplomatic way and leave them to die.

We're one of the rishest nations in the world, but unless the act makes us look good in the world eyes why bother doing it. We shouldn't be pulling out, we should be helping build industries and schools and homes, we should be funding 10 times more than what we are and helping them see a light at the end of the tunnel.

we're being pussies because we're affraid of helping build a nation less we fail like others before us. We're so self centred on our image that we're unwilling to take a risk and try to accomplish something.
 
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