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True Detective (HBO)

DJ Vuvu Zela

TRIBE Member
acting aside, the finale didn't match the excellence of the rest of the series.

not that it was terrible, it just seemed rushed. the first 6 episodes really seemed carefully crafted and paced, and then the last 2 episodes seemed like a race to the end without that same consideration.

really should have made the season 10 or more episodes.
 

coleridge

TRIBE Member
My only problem with the ending is that it was exactly as it should be. With 15 mins left and they had caught the bad guy I was hoping for some mind-blowing twist to come out nowhere. But to have executed something like that would have been impossible probably. So I respect the ending for what it was.

I'd be interested to know if they also shot an ending that didn't leave the story open for a second season.

My only small gripe: when it became clear to Rust that scarface was taunting him into Carcosa and Rust knew Marty was close behind him I would like to think Rust would have slowed down and waited for Marty.
 

stryker

TRIBE Member
acting aside, the finale didn't match the excellence of the rest of the series.

not that it was terrible, it just seemed rushed. the first 6 episodes really seemed carefully crafted and paced, and then the last 2 episodes seemed like a race to the end without that same consideration.

really should have made the season 10 or more episodes.
agreed. Although I did enjoy the episode i wish it had ended a few seconds after Carcosa. If they needed to fill time they could have spent more on the news reports or something. That whole near death experience chat seemed a bit forced.

stew
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
My only small gripe: when it became clear to Rust that scarface was taunting him into Carcosa and Rust knew Marty was close behind him I would like to think Rust would have slowed down and waited for Marty.
He did acknowledge Marty as he was closing though... I wonder if he was pushing in alone from part of a deathwish motivation
 

silver1

TRIBE Member
Did I miss some small detail mentioned somewhere, or did the "Hey wait a minute, the house in the photo of some old case looks like it was freshly painted green = green ears" just seem to come out of nowhere giving them the lead they needed?
 

Blue Meanies

TRIBE Member
I'd be interested to know if they also shot an ending that didn't leave the story open for a second season.
The next season will be a new case, new location and new detectives. It was always meant to be this just one season for these two detectives. Their story is over.
 

Metal Morphosis

TRIBE Member
Did I miss some small detail mentioned somewhere, or did the "Hey wait a minute, the house in the photo of some old case looks like it was freshly painted green = green ears" just seem to come out of nowhere giving them the lead they needed?
i agree with this - seemed a little too far fetched to make such a random connection. When they said 'green ears' i thought the clue was going to be green ear protectors commonly worn by those who cut lawn / work in loud places. to me that would have made more sense than green ears from painting a house.

also - still so many questions!
how exactly did he get the scars (he alluded to it when Rust was chasing him "you don't know what they did to me" or something similar)?
what was the deal with the dead guy / 'daddy' in the shed?
what did Marty shudder at when he was on the second floor of the house?
what was the old black lady's connection to carcosa?

i had more... they were swimming around in my head before bed last night... but now i've forgotten them.
 

KickIT

TRIBE Member
I always thought you looked a little like the Korean Larry Fishburn! Mind is blown right now.

It's Alistair btw :)
WOAH Korean Larry Fishburn? I don't know if I should smile, laugh or cry.

Finally watched the finale last night. I agree that it seemed to wrap up really quick but on the whole I was very satisfied with season 1. Really curious who they'll bring on for season 2.
 

Illogistix

TRIBE Member
Ha ha, no disrespect man. Check out the young Laurence from Boyz in da Hood... Furious Styles is the best. Boyz n da Hood ~ Collected Wisdom of Jason 'Furious' Styles - Lawrence Fishburne (1991) - YouTube

As for True Detective Season 2, I read that it's supposed to be about the origins of the U.S. Transportation system? This interview with Pizzalotto answers a lot of questions about the show:

'True Detective' creator Nic Pizzolatto looks back on season 1
Why end it that way? How big was the conspiracy? And what about season 2?

BY ALAN SEPINWALL MONDAY, MAR 10, 2014 1:19 AM

Earlier tonight, "True Detective" concluded its first season — and, with it, the stories of Rust Cohle and Marty Hart. I reviewed the finale here, and as a bookend to a conversation we had before the season started, I spoke with the show's creator, Nic Pizzolatto, about the finale and the season as a whole (along with a vague but intriguing hint about season 2, which hasn't been officially ordered yet, but only because I suspect HBO is waiting until they've signed the actors they want before announcing). That's coming up just as soon as I strike you as more of a talker than a doer...

The structure of the series means you could have done anything with the ending, up to and including killing the two leads, because you get a clean slate with the next season. Why did you choose this particular way to end the story?

Nic Pizzolatto: This is a story that began with its ending in mind, that Cohle would be articulating, without sentimentality or illusion, an actual kind of optimism. That line, you ask me, the light's winning, that was one of the key pieces of dialogue that existed at the very beginning of the series' conception. For me as a storyteller, I want to follow the characters and the story through what they organically demand. And it would have been the easiest thing in the world to kill one or both of these guys. I even had an idea where something more mysterious happened to them, where they vanished into the unknown and Gilbough and Papania had to clean up the mess and nobody knows what happens to them. Or it could have gone full blown supernatural. But I think both of those things would have been easy, and they would have denied the sort of realist questions the show had been asking all along. To retreat to the supernatural, or to take the easy dramatic route of killing a character in order to achieve an emotional response from the audience, I thought would have been a disservice to the story. What was more interesting to me is that both these men are left in a place of deliverance, a place where even Cohle might be able to acknowledge the possibility of grace in the world. Because one way both men were alike in their failures was that neither man could admit the possibility of grace. I don't mean that in a religious sense. Where we leave Cohle, this man hasn't made a 180 change or anything like that. He's moved maybe 5 degrees on the meter, but the optimistic metaphor he makes at the end, it's not sentimental; it's purely based on physics. Considering what these characters had been through, it seemed hard to me to work out a way where they both live and they both exit the show to live better lives beyond the boundaries of these eight episodes. Now they are going to go on and live forever beyond the margins of the show, and our sense, at least, is they haven't changed in any black to white way, but there is a sense that they have been delivered from the heart of darkness. They did not avert their eyes, whatever their failings as men. And that when they exit, they are in a different place.

About the epiphany Cohle has at the end, this is a show that has dealt an awful lot with the abuses that can sometimes come from organized religion, and half of it's been told from the point of view of a man who believes in no faith and is very eloquent and passionate in the way in which he describes the meaningless of our existence.

Nic Pizzolatto: And yet he protests too much. I think he does. I would refrain from some of the questions about some of Cohle's psychology and beliefs. And this is a necessary part of the format, but it felt that chapters of a book are being reviewed before the whole book has been revealed. I don't think Cohle is ever lying. I just think he wants that ultimate nullity to be true in the way that a born again Christian might want the transubstantiation of Christ to be true, right? It's the kind of thing where if you know this, then you don't have to go around saying it all the time.

You gave Cohle a lot of opportunities, especially in the first five episodes, to express a lot of his belief system. Reading much of the commentary on the show, there were some people who were really impressed by what Cohle had to say and some who were thinking the entire time that he's full of crap, and some people insisting the show thinks he's brilliant and others feeling that the show is well aware that he's full of crap. How did you want people to take all of the things Cohle was saying to us?

Nic Pizzolatto: I don't want to restrict an audience by telling them that "this means this" and "this means this." My intentions are the inalterable definition of things. For people who thought Cohle's philosophy was simply hogwash, be aware that you're calling Arthur Schopenhauer and Friedrich Nietzsche hogwash. Just be aware of that. That is not, in fact, a college freshman stoned eating a pizza talking about life; that's Arthur Schopenhauer's thoughts on life. But I thought that was part of the tension within Cohle. It might not all fall into relief until you've watched all eight episodes, but yes, these things are eloquently stated, and they do make sense, and they are no more or less true than the story Preacher Theriot is telling you during the tent revival service. Somebody asked me, "Well, what does this all mean?" Obviously, as an artist, I hate questions like that, but I could tell they were asking for a governing theme that could encompass everything else that happened. And so I had to think about it. And to me, if there's one governing thing in "True Detective" that encompasses everything that is happening in "True Detective," and that the show is telling you — constantly, the show keeps telling you — is that everything is a story. Cohle tells you that who you think you are, your identity, is a story you tell yourself. He tells us that religion and philosophy are stories we tell ourselves. Cohle describes them as cathartic narratives, but in confession he's so good at getting confessions from suspects because he gives them room to create a cathartic narrative. Hart says an investigation is the act of trying to put together a story after the fact, and when he goes over his story in episode 5, you can tell that Hart used to tell himself one story and now he tells himself another story. The show was never concerned with the supernatural, but it was concerned with supernatural thought, and it was concerned with supernatural thinking to the degree that it was concerned with storytelling. So if there was one overarching theme to "True Detective," I would say it was that as human beings, we are nothing but the stories we live and die by — so you'd better be careful what stories you tell yourself.

I keep thinking back to the interview we did before the season, and the moment when I was asking you about comparisons to other serial killer shows, and you said that you couldn't care less about serial killers. How seriously were we ultimately meant to take the actual Dora Lange investigation, and how much of it was just a line to hang the character examination on?

Nic Pizzolatto: I don't think it was an empty vehicle, is what I guess I would say there. I don't think it could have been just anything that these guys were working on. I think it's relevant that the person they're chasing is both the victim of an historical evil and the perpetrator of an historical evil. The killer in that way is a physical articulation of cultural aspects that have sat behind the scenes, even informing that polluted landscape that provides so much of the background. If you go from the idea of something being in its natural state and then being perverted, and that this particular villain, for lack of a better word, is a killer of women and children, and his methodology is intimately tied to a mythology of belief — I do think if you want to go back and watch 7 and 8, there's enough given in the fragments that everyone states, there's enough that you can actually piece together historically, how Sam Tuttle in the early '30s led to Errol Childress in the first decade of the new millennium. I would say it wasn't an empty vehicle at all. I think the killer, his methodology and his actual crimes were endemic, not only to our characters, but to the world we were dealing with. It wouldn't have worked to have a robbery that didn't get solved properly in 1995. There's almost a way that Cohle, Hart and Errol, these men are in some ways the creations of their fathers, if you pay attention to their backstories.

All of the things that, in the previous episode, Cohle was telling Marty that he had uncovered, and what we saw on the videotape, pointed to a larger group of men working on these things. But we get to the end, and it's just Errol left, along with his father in the shed. How many other people were involved in the specific things that Cohle and Hart were investigating?

Nic Pizzolatto: There's the men in the video, and there's about 10 of them. Then you can begin to look at that as if that cult began to disintegrate shortly afterwards, and then there were always revenants existing on a local level. If you track the name Childress, you realize Sheriff Childress was the sheriff when Marie Fontenot disappeared, an Officer Childress was attending to Guy Francis in 2002 when he committed suicide. The conspiracies that I've researched and encountered, they seem to happen very ad hoc: they become conspiracies when it's necessary to have a conspiracy. I think it would have rang false to have Hart and Cohle suddenly clean up 50 years of the culture history that led to Errol Childress, or to get all the men in that video. It's important to me, I think, that Cohle says, "We didn't get em all, Marty," and Marty says, "We ain't going to. This isn't that kind of world." This isn't the kind of world where you mop up everything. We discharged our duty, but of course there are levels and wheels and historical contexts to what happened that we'll never be able to touch.

Early in the episode, we see Errol come into the big house, "North by Northwest" is playing and he starts doing a James Mason voice. Then he slips into a number of other accents. What was behind that?

Nic Pizzolatto: That was part of his creation as a character. There was this idea that when he talks in his real voice, it's very slurred because of the scarring. My background for him was that he learned how to enunciate properly through watching all these old VCR movies. And that brings us back to the idea of storytelling, right? At one minute he can affect this Andy Griffith good ol' boy voice, the next he can sound like James Mason, and when he wants to use his real voice, he sounds like something wounded and damaged. And then when Cohle is in Carcosa, he sounds like something entirely different.

This has been the story of these two guys, and we get to know them incredibly well. None of the other characters really exist as anything but mirrors to reflect some aspect of Rust or Marty. How challenging is it to populate a world in which the only two characters who really matter are these two guys?

Nic Pizzolatto: That was really challenging. That was one of the most challenging things. Had this been an ensemble, that would have made it much much easier. In an ensemble, you can always cut to someone else's story. You have at least half a dozen characters going through individual problems. But this was very much about tracking two personalities and two points of view. The significant change in the final scene is that a point of view has shifted. After we've been told via Hart that there's no such thing as absolute justice — that's a story we tell ourselves, the real guilty don't get punished. It was very hard. If someone were, I think, to read my prose, they would find it populated with rich female characters. My challenge was, if somebody only exists in relation to Cohle and Hart, so they're only going to get one or two lines, they need to become vivid and imply a history and dimensionality in one or two lines.

I don't know where you are in working on season 2, but has any of the reaction to this season informed what you're doing with the next?

Nic Pizzolatto: It's informed exactly one thing. It's that I realize I need to keep being strange. Don't play the next one straight.

Can you tell me anything at all about season 2?

Nic Pizzolatto: Okay. This is really early, but I'll tell you (it's about) hard women, bad men and the secret occult history of the United States transportation system.

Finally, you wrote this entire thing in a vacuum, as someone relatively new to television, not knowing how it was received. And the show comes on, and people go nuts about it, they are penning raves, coming up with elaborate theories about the Yellow King and Lovecraft and everything else. How did it feel to see your creation being received in all of these ways?

Nic Pizzolatto: I felt like, look, it's all good, and I really mean that. To me, that is what it means to connect and resonate with people. It means that they are going to project onto the work. There's never been anything I didn't love that I didn't connect with on a personal level because to some degree, I projected upon it. That said, I think I've made clear that my only interest in the Chambers stuff (Robert W. Chambers wrote "The King in Yellow") is as a story that has a place in American myth. And it's a story about a story that drives people into madness. That was mainly it. Beyond that, I'm interested in the atmosphere of cosmic horror, but that's about all I have to say about weird fiction. I did feel the perception was tilted more towards weird fiction than perhaps it should have been. For instance, if someone needs a book to read along with season 1 of "True Detective," I would recommend the King James Old Testament. I wouldn't tell anyone to go buy Robert Chambers. It's not that great a book. Joseph Conrad and William Faulkner I think are in there far more than Chambers or Lovecraft. But again, I guess I hope that these 8 chapters, once the totality of it is evident, it might provoke a re-evaluation. But if it doesn't, I'm very happy with the reaction we've had. It couldn't have been better. I'm just surprised by it. I remember talking to you three months ago and having to convince you: "This just sounds like every other show," "I know, I know." And now my wife read a comment the other day that said I live out in the desert, and I run some kind of cult. (laughs) I don't know what I can say about that. I think this show answers everything it told you to ask. The questions it didn't tell you to ask are questions best left to one's self.

Read more at True Detective creator Nic Pizzolatto looks back on season 1
 

glych t.anomaly

TRIBE Member
finally watched the last episode this weekend, and holy goddamn muthafucking yee haw that was a tight fucking finale.

they didnt give away what the whole plot an society they were after was about, they left some mystery there.

the seen all through Carcosa and william tuddle was amazing. this show did not have one let down, even the end in the hospital, the relationship between Cole and Marty, is just fantastic, the dialogue was fucking Hilarious.

outstanding television, possibly one of the best stand alone seasons of any show i have ever seen.

i really REALLY REALLY hope that they dont fuck shit up and next season is a let down.
 

dig this

TRIBE Member
The first 5 episodes were amazing. Episode 6 & 7, maybe cause of the amazingness of episodes 1-5, were ok... The final episode had some great moments, but for me left too many questions unanswerred. I wanted to see more about Rusty's connection to all of this (i.e. Corcosa and The King in Yellow). The final part, although a great climax through Corcosa, could have left out the X-Files inspired tornado thing before Rusty getting a hatchet in his chest, and definitely could have left out the tears at the end. Maybe that last part was just Rusty transitioning back into Matthew Mcconaughey.
 

ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
The first 5 episodes were amazing. Episode 6 & 7, maybe cause of the amazingness of episodes 1-5, were ok... The final episode had some great moments, but for me left too many questions unanswerred. I wanted to see more about Rusty's connection to all of this (i.e. Corcosa and The King in Yellow). The final part, although a great climax through Corcosa, could have left out the X-Files inspired tornado thing before Rusty getting a hatchet in his chest, and definitely could have left out the tears at the end. Maybe that last part was just Rusty transitioning back into Matthew Mcconaughey.
Rust didn't get the hatchet in the chest, and the tornado thing was him hallucinating due to his extended and severe drug usage as a Narc.
maybe you missed the part where his child and father died too.
 

dig this

TRIBE Member
Rust didn't get the hatchet in the chest,.
That's right, he was stabbed.

and the tornado thing was him hallucinating due to his extended and severe drug usage as a Narc.
Is this an assumption? (serious question)... He wasn't going through any other withdrawal symptoms as far as I could see.

maybe you missed the part where his child and father died too.
I think I actually did miss this scene. Was it another hallucination before getting stabbed?
 
Rust didn't get the hatchet in the chest, and the tornado thing was him hallucinating due to his extended and severe drug usage as a Narc.
maybe you missed the part where his child and father died too.
The tornado thing looked like black hole to me, and fits in better with Rust's speech about M-Theory and his nihilism.
 

ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
and the swarm of birds forming the circle diagram .
he said something about knowing what's real and what isn't...and dealing with it.
 

skin deep

TRIBE Member
Fell apart a bit for me at the end, seemingly forgetting what made everything great about the first half of the season and degrading into cliche cops and robbers bullshit without the Nietschze-esque contemplations of life and consequence in the first half, then shoehorning some more of it in at the end. Still a great show, but the ending seemed so rushed that it lacked the emotional vigour of what made the first episodes so amazing, instead relying on a mess of tropes that I really didn't think it would ever resort to.
 

dig this

TRIBE Member
The tornado thing looked like black hole to me, and fits in better with Rust's speech about M-Theory and his nihilism.
Are we ignoring the warp acceleration hallucination trails Cohl experienced while driving at night in one of the first few episodes?
There may have been other hallucinations in the show, but they were much more subtle. This last part was at the pinnacle of the end climax - has a much different impact on the show. Like I said, wasn't much of a fan of a few things in the last episode, but at the same time I shouldn't sound like a grumpy old arse - it was a great finale, just wasn't on par with the rest of the series imo.
 

ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
my mom's coming down to visit for the weekend and she has yet to see this.
2 on friday, 3 on saturday, and 3 on sunday, on a very nice soundsystem so even i won't miss what they say this time around.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
I dunno the vortex hallucination really touched me - maybe it was the bag of vapour but it was so fuckin surreal and captivating... To me it was almost the essence of evil behind everything.

But hey - your mileage may vary
 

Metal Morphosis

TRIBE Member
my mom's coming down to visit for the weekend and she has yet to see this.
2 on friday, 3 on saturday, and 3 on sunday, on a very nice soundsystem so even i won't miss what they say this time around.
put on the close captioning - you won't miss a thing.
we've been using it for years for everything but sports & news & some reality shows. it's so helpful and means i don't need to have the volume turned way up.
 
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