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Trudeau is against the Canadian worker

Discussion in 'TRIBE Main Forum' started by wickedken, Nov 11, 2016.

  1. wickedken

    wickedken TRIBE Member

    The surprise victory of Donald Trump has once again highlighted what can only be called the ignorance of Trudeau and the elites to the plight of the common Canadian worker.

    This has been made obvious by his unwavering stance with regard to the carbon tax regime, which will undeniably negatively impact the cost of doing business and the velocity of trade of goods in this country as higher prices will tamper down economic activity.

    Furthermore the increased cost of doing business in Canada will negatively influence corporations willingness to invest in Canadian jobs vis-a-vis other low cost jurisdictions both within and inside the framework of NAFTA.

    Such is the disdain and moralistic attitudes that Trudeau and the elites open themselves up to the same groundswell of popular support that has led to the election of an insular and unsophisticated neophyte into the Oval Office.

    This realization explains the tight grip these elites have on Canadian media and discourse, and now with the alteration of the electoral process itself. People who are otherwise intelligent and empathic are made to remain ignorant to the financial difficulties of many Canadians outside of cities and favoured industries. This will only result in the same polarization of politics as we are observing in our southern neighbour.

    Trudeau needs to temper the profit-seeking demands of the elites and provide the same economic opportunities by levelling the economic playing field relative to Mexico and the United States, and by further examining the relative economic benefits of participating in global trade agreements.

    Carbon-tax comittment puts Trudeau at odds with Trump
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
    basketballjones likes this.
  2. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    I don't know why more liberals and progressives can't get behind the Trump plan to ensure our grandchildren pay the true cost of our subsidized, cheap carbon.
  3. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    Bad news for the Canadian economy all round with Trump's win - the "canadian worker" is surely under threat but the carbon tax is incidental to what will happen if US business are relocated down south.

    Could be huge hit to our auto industry - which has been a bone of contention with the US for over 50 years, and was in fact the very first thing Canada/US agreed to prior to CUFTA, the "auto pact".

    If Trump's win is making people think about a carbon tax they are missing the forest for the trees - trade disruption and a return of tariffs and requiring US businesses to locate in the US are the much bigger threats to the canadian worker and will happen regardless of whatever policy direction happens on carbon.

    I would point out BC has a carbon tax that is pretty much a Win-Win for everyone.

    Is a Carbon Tax a Good Idea? Just Ask British Columbia
  4. basketballjones

    basketballjones TRIBE Member

    how is crippling the economy and pretty much shuttering investment in canada with a carbon tax going to save us if they are just going to hand out credits to the biggest emitters. hand picked by trudeau/wynne of course

    so in effect they are choosing who does business in canada/ontario. it has been proven over and over again not to work, but hey, lets give it the old liberal try. same with the green shit..err shift. where are those 50,000 jobs we were promised? all it has done has devestated the manufacturer sector and drove the price of electricity through the roof. so much so too many ppl have to choose between heat or food

    you do realize how big canada is yes, and how cold it is for 6 months of the year yes
    we rely on the states to buy our goods. lets be honest, cap and trade is nothing more than a tax and it will not be absorbed by the companies it will be passed onto comsumers and result in job losses to cut the bottom line. same thing happens when it is decided to raise min wage. ppl are let go and the ppl left are expected to do more

    these things always sound good on paper yet have been proven time and again to do the exact opposite
  5. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    I guess you're not paying attention.

    Carbon taxes don't have to mean "crippling the economy"

    BC's economy is not "crippled" - actually their carbon tax has helped provide tax relief to the middle class.
  6. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    Why do you want cheap carbon now paid for on the backs of our grandchildren bbj?

    Do you hate future generations and just want more for yourself NOW, fuck em?
    Rocky likes this.
  7. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    Anyway. The US had laws about US companies having a certain amount of operations, or HQ even, located on US soil if companies wanted to sell to the US market without tariffs.

    Canada basically built its economy in the first 3/4 of the 20th century on what we called "The Branch Plant Economy". You want to sell to Canada? Sure, build a factory here, a processing plant here, you can sell here. So auto companies had to build a plant to sell us cars tariff-free, same for every other international that wanted us to buy their shit.

    One problem was that we got the low-level jobs, and the HQs would be in the US or elsewhere and we wouldn't have those high salaries contributing to our tax base - maybe some companies never came here cause they didn't want to have to build a plant. But it did give us a ton of canadian jobs and build up an industrial and manufacturing base.

    The Auto-Pact codified US/Canada trade relations but was limited to autos, Canada retained a lot of its Branch Plant economy but tariffs were reduced, there was a dispute mechanism - it was the beginning of formal trade agreements between us with grand scope.

    CUFTA in the 80s with Reagan - and later NAFTA - these were the things that broke a lot of barriers everyone had put up. Now US companies could sell here without having to build a plant here. We could do the same there. But we had a lower dollar and this was attractive - US companies could move here and sell back to the US without penalty, taking advantage of our dollar and the effect it had on their labour cost inputs.

    Now - if we want to go back to pre-NAFTA/pre-CUFTA? All those US companies who came here may have to shutter up in Canada if they don't want to pay tariffs, or the tariffs that start to get assessed basically destroy the advantage of our low dollar and no future companies from the US will move here and we'll lose out on those opportunities.

    Its grim days.

    But the carbon tax is really not as important as all THAT when it comes to proximate threats to our economy - the reason the carbon tax is important is because there is a huge cost to its use that we are not paying, future generations will be paying the cost for our susbidized, cheap carbon that costs way less than it should. So that's a moral debt. And it's one we can address in ways that don't have to kill the economy if we do it smart, like BC did.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
  8. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    Shit man we might even start fighting about softwood lumber again.

    Holy fuck what's old is new again eh??
  9. basketballjones

    basketballjones TRIBE Member

    why do you want the granchildren you are so worried about to be saddled with mountains of debt and zero job prospects....oh wait, that is already happening and with this new tax it will simply make things worse

    how does paying (or being given them by the gov) for credits stop pollution? it doesnt, it just drives up prices and stops companies from wanting to do business in places that have it when they can go to another place and not have to pay for the pretend credits.

    same goes with the green shift. how has this helped the province?

    a lil hint, it hasnt it has actually done the exact opposite
  10. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    You're the debt king.

    You're the one who wants to pass the cost of carbon onto our kids for a cheaper fillup on the way to the cottage - a debt.

    How do you sleep at night?
  11. basketballjones

    basketballjones TRIBE Member

    how do you sleep at night? why dont you go talk to the ppl who have lost everything because of the disastrous policies of the liberals here in ontario and soon to be shared with the rest of canada
    you do realize how food gets to your table yes. how the clothes you wear, the phone you use etc get to you yes

    it is a tax. plain and simple and it will be on everything and will provide zero benefit other than to the ones who are picked as winners and losers. you know damn well the companies will not pay one slim dime out of their pockets for this.
  12. basketballjones

    basketballjones TRIBE Member

    as an aside, i dont have a car and do not own a cottage
  13. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    Why do you want your grandchildren to pay for cheap carbon today?
  14. basketballjones

    basketballjones TRIBE Member

    what part of this wont do anything for carbon do you not understand or are you being willfully ignorant.
    cap and trade does nothing for carbon, it is a tax plain and simple
    why not just do away with the auto sector(which is hanging on by a thread), the manufacturing sector(actually wynne saved us huge on carbon pretty much destroying it so win!)
  15. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    I just want to know why you love passing debts to kids so much
  16. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    "Hey little timmy - dad didn't want to have pay so much at the pump! Sorry about those water levels and that encroaching famine from failing staple crops!!"
    Rocky likes this.
  17. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    Conservatives elected Trump; now they own climate change
    Posted on 10 November 2016 by John Abraham

    Many of us in the United States are in deep shock and despair. The election of Donald Trump speaks of a country and a world that represents so many things that go against our deepest grains. However, as I told my children this morning, the Earth will still turn, the sun will still rise. In fact, a Trump presidency will not have the dire consequences that many of us fear – especially for people like me who will be insulated from his policies. Surely it will change the economics and courts in the US, among other things. But really, all of these are transient.

    The one thing that isn’t transient is the impact this will have on climate change. It is now virtually certain the world will not meet any of its climate targets. If Trump (and the Republican-controlled Congress) stand by their pledges, we will see a major rollback of the tremendous progress that has been made on reducing emissions. A Trump presidency will likely set us back at least a decade, perhaps longer. And that is a decade we can’t afford.

    The world will blow past the 2C (3.6F) target set in Paris. This means it will be difficult to avoid the worst consequences of climate change.

    The election also affects how we should talk about climate change. In the US, and in many other countries, opposing steps to cut carbon pollution has become a litmus test for conservative politicians. So, in this sense, conservatives now own climate change. I can just imagine the slogans, “Climate change, brought to you by your neighborhood conservatives.”

    George W Bush was the worst president ever on climate change. Back then, with the reality of climate change not as widely known, it is conceivable to give voters a pass. But not now. Anyone who voted for Trump shares the responsibility for what is now inevitable.

    It’s really too bad because many conservatives certainly don’t want to destroy the Earth’s climate. Furthermore, there are some conservatives who do take climate change seriously. However, when a central belief to conservatism results in decades of inaction, it makes it impossible to avoid staring facts in the face.

    Conservatives own climate change.

    Conservatives own the consequences of climate change.

    They own the increased droughts, more severe storms, sea level rise, and floods.

    They own the heat waves, the loss of habitat and the shifting climate zones.

    They own the climate refugees, the resulting political strive, and climate conflicts.

    They own it all.

    Liberals, both in the US and around the world, have tried to work with conservatives to devise practical plans that will reduce the threats of climate change. In the past few years there was real progress.

    We had hope.
  18. basketballjones

    basketballjones TRIBE Member

    wow, you are clearly being willfully ignorant

    Cap and trade auction suffers low demand again. Should Ontario worry? - Macleans.ca

    If the programs are linked too early, Ontario may not see the $1.9 billion a year in revenue it is counting on, Tabuns said.

    it is a tax. and a badly thought out one

    hey little timmy, praktik is delusional so now we eat dirt and live in soddies like our great great grandparents. why dont you start preaching about the leap manifesto while your at it
  19. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

  20. basketballjones

    basketballjones TRIBE Member

    you cannot even pretend political parties in the us and canada are even remotely similar but its a good try
  21. basketballjones

    basketballjones TRIBE Member

    please keep on topic
  22. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

  23. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

    Please stop loving debt so much and wanting future generations to pay for cheap carbon today by getting them to pay the full price of what we get subsidized on their little children backs
  24. praktik

    praktik TRIBE Member

  25. basketballjones

    basketballjones TRIBE Member

    bc's is by law revenue neutral which means anything they take in they have to lower taxes elsewhere
    that is NOT what is being proposed here
    this is a tax

    pushed forward by the single most indebted place on the fucking planet to make up for their disastrous policies/programs
    also, last i checked i didnt live in bc

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