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Time (conceptually speaking)

Rosey

TRIBE Member
slaughterhouse 5 by kurt vonnegut deals with the subject in a non-scientific way.

you could always pull out hawkings 'a brief history of time'

are you looking for theory, speculation or discussion?
 
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LilMissNaughty

TRIBE Member
There's a really interesting one from Central/South America...I can't remember if its Aztec, Incan, or Mayan....
It kinda has a cult following. It's a really interesting perspective on time.

I'll ask my friend for you...he is a part of that cult following (oddly (?) enough, he also lives in a hippy commune) :p
 
G

Guest

Guest
I find taking ketamine helps me understand such things with unprecedented clarity.
 

SUNKIST

TRIBE Member
Read Augustines Confessions.
if you arent big on reading much philosophy, specifically read Chapters 14-20. i guarantee it will give your brain a nice little workout thinking about conceptions of time and time measurment.
 
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somasociety

TRIBE Member
funny this should come up... i was just reading this article on the globe & mail homepage and was thinking of starting a thread. it's all about how the 'big bang' possibly was not as, er, 'big' as most people think it was. these smart physicist types argue that the big bang was "merely a turning point on an infinite road: an endless series of big bangs make the universe expand and an equally endless series of subsequent crunches make it contract". in essence, then, time has no beginning and in theory no end


:)
 

Bass-Invader

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by somasociety
funny this should come up... i was just reading this article on the globe & mail homepage and was thinking of starting a thread. it's all about how the 'big bang' possibly was not as, er, 'big' as most people think it was. these smart physicist types argue that the big bang was "merely a turning point on an infinite road: an endless series of big bangs make the universe expand and an equally endless series of subsequent crunches make it contract". in essence, then, time has no beginning and in theory no end


:)
i used to think about that when i was in oac

teh universe explodes, contents are created, eventually it becomes too large to resist gravity, implodes to its smallest critical state, bangs again.
which would imply one of two things:

the universe would 'bang' the same every time, since it is brought back to an identical state as when it 'banged' every other time, it would explode the same way, produce the same contents, and the same causal chain.
meaning, that everything happening now, happened before, and will happen again. The universe bangs, planets and galaxies form, we form, we create this thread and discuss it.then it implodes, bangs again and everything happens exactly the same again.

or

it 'bang's differently every time, and in effect there are myriad (possibly infinite) universes seperated by what we call 'time'.

yeah, i think of really stupid stuff...
 

Jeffsus

TRIBE Member
you can measure distance in one direction very easily.

Pick a spot. Label one direction positive and the other negative. Delineate the directions with equal period. Take a measurement.

To measure the distance from the origin to your spot, square the metric of the interval. Then take the positive root.

This is so obvious that explaining it generally makes it sound harder than it is. To most people, the explanation of 2 dimensions is familiar and makes more sense (cognitively)

measure the distance in one dimension. Measure the distance in the other dimension. Square these measurements. Add them, and take the root. This will give you the interval between your origin and your point, chosen in two space. This is pythagoreus' law. a^2=b^2+c^2

it works in three dimensiosn too
ie. 3space
a^2=x^2+y^2+z^2

oddly enough, this works in four space as well.

only, when measuring distances in 4space, it is convention to call it an 'interval'. This makes sure the pope is not offended.

an interval in four space is measure by

interval^2 = -(x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - t^s)

this is where it gets whonky.
i guess not anymore whonky than anything else, but, like meeting someone alien to your culture, the math in this expression is outside our day to day experience. making it whonky.

the wonkiest part about the formula is that 'interval' has units that makes sense both of distance (ie. metres) and time (ie. seconds). What that means is that somehow metres and seconds are both just different ways of understanding the same thing. Which turns out to be true. Which is whonky for anyone who has a timex watch and black and decker tape measure SIMULTANEOUSLY.

clearly the two devices measure different things.. dont they? DONT THEY?

customer> "Excuse me, my tape measure seems to be incapable of timing Ben Johnson. I'd like a refund."
clerk> "Well, your tape measure is still within warranty, but I'm afraid your inability to use it as a stopwatch is really more of a user problem. There are several relativity courses I could recommend to resolve your concerns..."
customer> "You're social skills seem a bit too advanced to be giving me advice in relativistic mechanics...."

-jM
A&D
 

Sporty Dan

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Jeffsus

interval^2 = -(x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - t^s)
.....you actually meant to write:
interval^2 = -(x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - c^2*t^2)
.....didn;t you? DIDN:T YOU?????

......but you were probably drunk......
So I will......overlook it........this time.......



dan.
 

Jeffsus

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Sporty Dan


.....you actually meant to write:
interval^2 = -(x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - c^2*t^2)
.....didn;t you? DIDN:T YOU?????

......but you were probably drunk......
So I will......overlook it........this time.......



dan.
Uh, that's write. I mean right.

I bet Minkowski is rolling in his grave right about now
(assuming he's dead)(
(and not cremated)

HEY shouldn't you be at work by now? Why aren't you on ICQ?

Should we proclaim the mystery of faith?
We should.


"I can see through time..."

-jM
A&D
 
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tommysmalls

TRIBE Member
a great piece of fiction which explores different aspects of time is alan lightman's "einstein's dreams" - its a nice short light read, but quite enlightening.

five stars.



from amazon.com....

The book takes flight when Einstein takes to his bed and we share his dreams, 30 little fables about places where time behaves quite differently. In one world, time is circular; in another a man is occasionally plucked from the present and deposited in the past: "He is agonized. For if he makes the slightest alteration in anything, he may destroy the future ... he is forced to witness events without being part of them ... an inert gas, a ghost ... an exile of time." The dreams in which time flows backward are far more sophisticated than the time-tripping scenes in Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five, though science-fiction fans may yearn for a sustained yarn, which Lightman declines to provide. His purpose is simply to study the different kinds of time in Einstein's mind, each with its own lucid consequences. In their tone and quiet logic, Lightman's fables come off like Bach variations played on an exquisite harpsichord. People live for one day or eternity, and they respond intelligibly to each unique set of circumstances. Raindrops hang in the air in a place of frozen time; in another place everyone knows one year in advance exactly when the world will end, and acts accordingly.

"Consider a world in which cause and effect are erratic," writes Lightman. "Scientists turn reckless and mutter like gamblers who cannot stop betting.... In this world, artists are joyous." In another dream, time slows with altitude, causing rich folks to build stilt homes on mountaintops, seeking eternal youth and scorning the swiftly aging poor folk below. Forgetting eventually how they got there and why they subsist on "all but the most gossamer food," the higher-ups at length "become thin like the air, bony, old before their time."

There is no plot in this small volume--it's more like a poetry collection than a novel. Like Stephen Hawking's A Brief History of Time, it's a mind-stretching meditation by a scientist who's been to the far edge of physics and is back with wilder tales than Marco Polo's. And unlike many admirers of Hawking, readers of Einstein's Dreams have a high probability of actually finishing it.


cheers,
tommy
 
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