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theo parrish's comments in todays eye

djcheezwhiz

TRIBE Member
i know this has been debated elsewhere, but theo parrish basically stated the following:

"The form is being cheapened because technology has made it very hip and kitschy, very much a fad, to be a DJ," he states. "I'm meaning stuff like the Numark iPod mixer and software like Final Scratch and Serato. Those, in my opinion, are all shortcuts to the necessary work that goes into becoming a great selector.

"Even the very people who once championed vinyl and the selection art have just gone the cheapest route," Parrish continues. "Those DJs know who they are; most of them have New York and German addresses. You built your careers on vinyl and now you're regressing for the hot new shit. Get your knuckles dusty. Play records, or even CDs -- at least then you're playing an object you can give to somebody to say, 'This is what this is.' Now you can't even share it without them being in the loop. It's elitist bullshit."

Your thoughts? Ableton, Final Scratch etc etc ---
 

coleridge

TRIBE Member
Uh.... you still have to be able to mix records to use Final Scratch. And you still select the tracks that are being played. What's the issue? Sounds more like Parrish is bitter that he's not getting the level of respect he used to for being a good DJ who can beat match well.

Abelton is definitely a little more interesting. Abelton has removed the process of beat matching ... but it has opened a whole new realm of creative possibilities. It brings more artistic merit to what the DJ does, that's for sure. We all know there are different levels of DJs, Abelton will just make that more apparent. Guys who are just going to mix one track into the next using Abelton aren't going to get very far, it will be all about the ones who are recreating music on the fly.

Personally I hate the whole laptop interface look of the abelton DJ. I've seen a few abelton sets in the past year. One in particular was pretty boring and cleared the room. I'm conviced though had the DJ been playing records the dancefloor would have remained busier longer as at least it would have looked like there was a DJ playing. But in this case it looked like some random guy had walked up into the booth and was cueing tracks up in WinAmp.

Sasha has it right in at least building a mixing surface that makes his performance look more exciting than some dude moving a mouse.

I think Abelton is definitely here to stay. I don't even really feel like doing a conventional mix anymore when I know I could do something way more interesting and noteworthy in Abelton. I just need to get myself to that level of comfort with Abelton.
 

litespeed

Well-Known TRIBEr
Originally posted by djcheezwhiz
i know this has been debated elsewhere, but theo parrish basically stated the following:

"The form is being cheapened because technology has made it very hip and kitschy, very much a fad, to be a DJ," he states. "I'm meaning stuff like the Numark iPod mixer and software like Final Scratch and Serato. Those, in my opinion, are all shortcuts to the necessary work that goes into becoming a great selector.


I agree to some extent... but from what I see, in toronto at least.. the dj fad sure ain't what it used to be... overall people seem to be getting out of it, at least the older peeps
 

djcheezwhiz

TRIBE Member
matt, always a great response --- i was putting some cds into cases the other night & came across your breathe double disc promo (i think spring 2004)...

i believe that there will be some middle ground reached and like djs who have incorporated live instruments into their shows, ableton will only enhance the experience --- the ability (as you put it nicely) to re-create on the fly ---

the same criticism was directed toward the live performances of many bands which were synth based (like depeche mode, new order) --- people complained that they weren't really doing anything except pressing buttons --- but it was their ability to "recreate on the fly" through new sequences etc that made the show work...

although i do like his quote about getting your knuckles dirty :)
 

coleridge

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by ev
I agree to some extent... but from what I see, in toronto at least.. the dj fad sure ain't what it used to be... overall people seem to be getting out of it, at least the older peeps
The problem is nobody's offering anything new. You can't open a club and offer the same thing every other club has offered up until now. If you're going to copy something you have to do it better than the original.

Likewise, DJing hasn't changed much in the past ten years. What incentive do the older people have to come out anymore. So many people I know who don't come out in ages that when they do comment "nothing's changed". Hopefully the music is fresher but the experience never is.
 
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coleridge

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by coleridge
The problem is nobody's offering anything new. You can't open a club and offer the same thing every other club has offered up until now. If you're going to copy something you have to do it better than the original.

Likewise, DJing hasn't changed much in the past ten years. What incentive do the older people have to come out anymore. So many people I know who don't come out in ages that when they do comment "nothing's changed". Hopefully the music is fresher but the experience never is.
Sorry that should say:

Originally posted by ev
I agree to some extent... but from what I see, in toronto at least.. the dj fad sure ain't what it used to be... overall people seem to be getting out of it, at least the older peeps
The problem is nobody's offering anything new. You can't open a club and offer the same thing every other club has offered up until now. If you're going to copy something you have to do it better than the original.

Likewise, DJing hasn't changed much in the past ten years. What incentive do the older people have to come out anymore? The excitement of electronic music being something fresh and new to them is gone. So many people I know who venture out to a club after a long absence comment something along the lines of "nothing's changed". The music is probably fresher but the experience never is.
 

djcheezwhiz

TRIBE Member
i'll insert this at the beginning, cause I don't think this makes a lot of sense --- but i'm trying to work while putting some thoughts down here :)

historically though, people go through a clubbing phase which seems to end for the majority around their mid twenties --- the majority of my friends who i grew up with stopped going out during or shortly after university --- they settled down, had kids etc...it's amazing how many people that influenced my musical tastes now listen to chfi/the mix --- people who I used to buy records with who are now offering me their collections for free (but for more on being cool i would recommend reading the rebel sell --- which does deal with music at some length) ... so the older people still going out are really the exception not the norm...

so my point is --- it's not so much worrying about the older people, but making sure the younger generations have something to get excited about --- clubbing hasn't really changed since the 70's (never mind the last 10 years) or at least since I started in the 80's (except that i don't get to skank as much anymore :D ) ... it will be the young generation coming up that need to get excited about going out ---

something new will come along --- it always does ---
 
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bombthreat23

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by djcheezwhiz
Play records, or even CDs -- at least then you're playing an object you can give to somebody to say, 'This is what this is.' Now you can't even share it without them being in the loop. It's elitist bullshit."
I don't know about you guys but I find it MUCH easier to share an mp3 than a record.
 

videotronic

TRIBE Member
i think he means "share" as in "pick it up off a platter and hand it to them so they can see what it is" as opposed to "share" as in "let every pimple faced puke with DSL rob the contents of my hard drive"
 

jazzsax

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by djcheezwhiz
more acid :)
Weak pills caused the downfall of rave. I swear.... by January 2000 weak pills also caused Hard House to take over. fuckin clusterfuck assrape stupid bullshit I tell you!

Thank god for techno.
 

Dr Funk MD

TRIBE Promoter
This is probably going to sound totally retarded until you realize what kind of person choses DJing as a profession or even a hobby, but the only reason people still buy records is because it looks cool when you play them.

There really is no good argument to bring records to a gig anymore. Practically every club worth their salt has playible CD decks included in their setup. It takes no time at all to plug your laptop into a mixer. I would argue that the main reason DJ still use records is because when someone peaks into the DJ booth and sees a record playing it looks more bad ass than a mouse or a CD case sitting on the turntables.

All DJs at some level love the 'performance' aspect of sliding a record back and forth, cueing it up and tweeking the knobs.

So really I think Theo Parrish's comments are more about the death of the performance of DJing rather then the art of spinning itself.
 
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slingshot

TRIBE Member
Coleridge and JC for you,

http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=382

^ more hip-hop, than dance music in its examples^
but this article parallels the discussion about moving away from turntables to a new technology, much like the movement from live music to the turntable at the late 70's, early 80's.

ss

p.s. the author's notion of meta-music has more relevance, as programs like ableton allow one to re-create, recreations, or sample samples.
 

videotronic

TRIBE Member
There really is no good argument to bring records to a gig anymore. Practically every club worth their salt has playible CD decks included in their setup. It takes no time at all to plug your laptop into a mixer. I would argue that the main reason DJ still use records is because when someone peaks into the DJ booth and sees a record playing it looks more bad ass than a mouse or a CD case sitting on the turntables.
im going to take you to task on that..

records sound way bigger and thicker in a club than cds. sure cds/mp3s/ableton are nice and crispy and you never have to worry about bad pressings etc but a well pressed full side 12" is always going to rock a club way harder than the same track being played off a cd.

you can bring out numbers and graphs and decimal places from now til the next life when we're all cats, but this is a simple fact and anyone who plays cds who's played after or vs. someone who plays vinyl will back me up on this.

that being said, there are many advantages to cds, and for most people these days those advantages outweigh the (for most people) small upshot of thicker, fuller sound, but you cant just make a blanket statement like that cause it just isnt true..
 

oeretS

TRIBE Member
agreed, i never understood why people still brought big record bags to gigs until i played burned mp3's on a proper rig and realized how flat they sound

mind you, properly ripped CD's from vinyl will sound pretty close but most files are ripped poorly by someone else and you don't realize until you hear it loud. a well-pressed record just sounds way beefier.

does that make it worth the hassle, i don't know...
 

loopdokter

TRIBE Promoter
Originally posted by Dr Funk MD
This is probably going to sound totally retarded until you realize what kind of person choses DJing as a profession or even a hobby, but the only reason people still buy records is because it looks cool when you play them.

There really is no good argument to bring records to a gig anymore. Practically every club worth their salt has playible CD decks included in their setup. It takes no time at all to plug your laptop into a mixer. I would argue that the main reason DJ still use records is because when someone peaks into the DJ booth and sees a record playing it looks more bad ass than a mouse or a CD case sitting on the turntables.
I couldn't disagree more!!! I play vinyl because I enjoy the medium for its interactivity. I enjoy mixing with it because you can touch it and manipulate it more with your physical hands - not buttons. It's a very sensual and tactile thing. With a CD, you just throw it into the tray/slot and away you go. To some I suppose that's advantageous but I will bring vinyl to a gig for as long as it's readily available, not because I look 'cool' with it. I don't care how heavy it is.

I doubt very much Lee Burridge plays mostly vinyl (still) because he looks cool with it.

Cheers,
J<
 

Jon Tremblay

TRIBE Member
I find the sound from vinyl to be more rich and would rather play vinyl over cd's. Unfortunetly so much more music is available on cd's/mp3's
 
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Richard Raiban

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Jon Tremblay
I find the sound from vinyl to be more rich and would rather play vinyl over cd's. Unfortunetly so much more music is available on cd's/mp3's
wick: as you know, the uh Ross's had considerable MONIES...
george: well i..i know they have some monies...
wick: they had more than some monies...MANY MANY MONIES!!!
 

litespeed

Well-Known TRIBEr
Originally posted by videotronic
im going to take you to task on that..

records sound way bigger and thicker in a club than cds. sure cds/mp3s/ableton are nice and crispy and you never have to worry about bad pressings etc but a well pressed full side 12" is always going to rock a club way harder than the same track being played off a cd.

you can bring out numbers and graphs and decimal places from now til the next life when we're all cats, but this is a simple fact and anyone who plays cds who's played after or vs. someone who plays vinyl will back me up on this.

that being said, there are many advantages to cds, and for most people these days those advantages outweigh the (for most people) small upshot of thicker, fuller sound, but you cant just make a blanket statement like that cause it just isnt true..





but guess what.... 99.98 percent of people can't tell the differnnce and couldn't care less wether it was a record or CD being played ;)
 

videotronic

TRIBE Member
who said anything about 99.98% of the people?

homeboy made a statement that i believe is erroneous...i replied...no one's talking about percentages and people

shape up, or you dont eat
 

videotronic

TRIBE Member
but since you bring it up, sure 99.98% of the people wont be aware on a conscious level whether its a record or a cd, but they feel the difference...play a track that sounds reedy and thin and then play the same track sounding fat and pimp and the room will always go off harder to the fatter one..
 
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