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The Toronto Real Estate Market

kuba

TRIBE Member
This year is going to be all about up-and-down-and-up-and-down. The bears may end up having their way but really - who the hell knows. Our market is defying odds right now with (finally) property coming out that is suitable for buyers, and condo prices are seeing 2009 levels. Maclean's came out with a pre-emptive strike announcing a CRASH and BURN. I say, BULL and SHIT. One of the, if not the best Realtor blogs is @urbaneer, and his piece now is relevant - and indicative of what is going on in the trenches. It's Cold! It's Hot! - Urbaneer - Toronto Real Estate, Condos, Homes is where it's at. Certainly the new mortgage rules have had some effect on the market but 91% of buyers can still afford under the new regime. What is too bad is the refinance rules are pushing people to borrow in high-interest facilities vs using their home equity - but then again the cycle hasn't stopped before so perhaps the only way it can is if the Government can push people to the brink (and back).
 

jellibeen

TRIBE Member
Are the GO trains really that good? What about people commuting from Jokeville or Shitby downtown? How long does it take for your colleagues to get from there to work?
My co-worker is commuting from Borington to Yonge/York Mills via GO/TTC and he says it takes him a little over an hour to get to work.
 
My co-worker is commuting from Borington to Yonge/York Mills via GO/TTC and he says it takes him a little over an hour to get to work.
I find people who have purchased outside of Toronto and commute to work feel obliged to downplay the length of time they waste daily.

Drive to the GO train station, park, walk to the platform: 5-20+ minutes depending where they live.
GO train to Union: 55 mins
Get off, walk to TTC @ Union, get to platform: ~4 minutes
TTC from union to York Mills: 22 minutes
Then walk from the platform to your office: ?

If you teleport from the station home/to work, the commute is already 1.5 hours presuming you don't wait for trains and there are no delays. Add those + snow or rain, and you're looking at 2 hours each way.

Fuck that.
 

Hawk Eye

TRIBE Member
yep.. I moved home 7 years ago back to good ole pickering.. I moved in January.. I lasted 3 months. It was horrible. The commute from Pickering to Toronto was long... I had to take a bus to the go train and my bus always missed the train leaving the station by only a few minutes. It used to drive me bananas bc i would see it leave.. I would hten have to wait for 20 minutes at the Go, for a PACKED TRAIN coming from Oshawa. As this was in the winter, the train always had issues.. if a train is late, it really becomes a huge mess. You are then forced to stand the entire ride and you feel like a sardine. One time my head was constantly hitting the ceiling bc of where I was forced to stand. So in the 3 months that I lived in Pickering.. the train had the following issues: The engine brokedown, the doors wouldn't close, the doors wouldn't open, the switches would freeze. argh.

I'd rather spend the money and live in Toronto. Now i only live a 20 minute WALK to work. No stress of ttcing/driving/go training it to work. I seriously don't understand how ppl can waste hours commuting.
 

kuba

TRIBE Member
With prices like these most people are finding it tough to pick between green space, a yard, and some actual living space vs commuting to/from.
 
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lucky1

TRIBE Member
I'd rather spend the money and live in Toronto. Now i only live a 20 minute WALK to work. No stress of ttcing/driving/go training it to work. I seriously don't understand how ppl can waste hours commuting.
I think this is where owning and renting differ. If you really can not afford to buy a house in Toronto but want to own something instead of renting, you are forced to move further out. You need to decide what your priorities are. (ie three bedroom house in the burbs versus a small condo walking distance to work). Like what Kuba is saying. Or you can buy a small house in Mimico that is kind of in between ;)
 

kyfe

TRIBE Member
I think this is where owning and renting differ. If you really can not afford to buy a house in Toronto but want to own something instead of renting, you are forced to move further out. You need to decide what your priorities are. (ie three bedroom house in the burbs versus a small condo walking distance to work). Like what Kuba is saying. Or you can buy a small house in Mimico that is kind of in between ;)
Preach Neighbour!
 

djfear

TRIBE Member
I love my hood. Old town, cork town, st lawrence, and across the bridge riverside & leslieville... The amount of money I NO longer spend on gas, insurance, maintenance, GO train, not to mention the unmeasurable health benefits of no stress from traffic, walking and cycling everywhere... it's beautiful, I love it (thanks for the advice late last year, Kuba!).

Time to hop on the motorcycle and go cruise around the city... :)
 
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acheron

TRIBE Member
Mimico's nice around lakeshore... The old neighbourhoods, long branch...but yeah, it's a chore to get into the city if you don't have a car. That stupid Queensway streetcar split is annoying.
 

lucky1

TRIBE Member
make no mistake, Mimico is 100% burbs.
Hehe well I can fully admit at 35 years old my late nights at clubs and afterhours are pretty rare these day. My weekends now are spent doing stuff around the house, working on some hobbies, or heading to a freinds house. We went to the Galloway arms for a few pints on Friday, close to home :)
 

kuba

TRIBE Member
So is Don Mills (100% burbs) and I love it too, but am itching to get back into the city (Roncy/High Park/Junction/Dundas West/Bloor West)

BUT

The fucking price of admission is easily $850,000 for any of those which is a bitter pill to swallow.
 

lucky1

TRIBE Member
I was living in Bloor West / then Junction for the last 5 years or so. It was really great, close enough to everything, but not right downtown.

Junction (where our condos were) is really changing. it's great to have some indie beer places and restaraunts, but the rents have gone way up and some of the independent shops that were there can no longer afford it (same old story). Dollarama is moving in where the Blockbuster used to be. Will be interesting to see what happens in the next while.

We were hoping to stay in that area when we sold our condos but I agree the prices are nuts for anything detached with parking etc.
 
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Chris

Well-Known TRIBEr
So is Don Mills (100% burbs) and I love it too, but am itching to get back into the city (Roncy/High Park/Junction/Dundas West/Bloor West)

BUT

The fucking price of admission is easily $850,000 for any of those which is a bitter pill to swallow.
What about the Woodbine Pocket? Upper Beach near Cassels Park?
 

kuba

TRIBE Member
The market IN toronto proper is death-defying. When people are paying a MILLION DOLLARS to live on a major Leslieville street, or $860,000 to buy a 2 unit semi in Roncesvalles that needs at least $250,000 to bring to today's standards, or $1M to live in the Lumsden/Woodbine area for a 15 foot wide new build, I have to believe things are insane right now.

Where are the people finding the money for this? Parents can only go so far. I know it is ridiculously easy these days to qualify for a LOT of money - you'd be surprised how far "the system" says $200,000 combined gross goes (it goes to a million), but anything over $1M requires 20%+ down anyways so clearly most of these people have cash.

Is Toronto really "catching up" to the world? Or are people going insane and blowing their budgets? I don't get it. It is uncanny to think that the same house a decade ago sold for maybe $300,000 if that. Triple your money tax-free in a decade? OK!

I am not a believer we'll see a "bubble" burst but when/if:

Inventory comes
Rates rise

I really think we'll see spotlights of problems in the city. Or, maybe not, and maybe this is the new reality.

Who the f knows. All I can say is, crazy.
 

kuba

TRIBE Member
Also, kudos to Robbie F for not getting rid of the LTT yet. At this pace it's bringing in MILLIONS upon MILLIONS to the city pocket!
 

djfear

TRIBE Member
I swear I think traffic, car insurance, parking costs, and the state of transportation in the GTA has something to do with real estate keep going. I'm just waiting for GO Transit to start charging for parking for all hell to break loose. $2700 for car insurance? No thanks... I'll put that towards property tax or condo fees! ...but I've mentioned this before.

Condos will probably flatten out for a long time since there are very many of them these days, but all those people that bought 5-10 years ago are looking to upgrade and often times want to move into a house that's still relatively close to the city - hence Leslieville prices.

Personally that's where I would want to move next, though that is way down the road especially now that I'm still a single income person.
 

KickIT

TRIBE Member
Kuba did you see 112 Brooklyn? Listing at $700K, sold for $960K! Looks like crap and has an unfinished basement. Generally though people don't seem to be buying the gut jobs for over market price anymore in Leslieville. The nice house are still going well above list though.
 
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kyfe

TRIBE Member
Kuba did you see 112 Brooklyn? Listing at $700K, sold for $960K! Looks like crap and has an unfinished basement. Generally though people don't seem to be buying the gut jobs for over market price anymore in Leslieville. The nice house are still going well above list though.
that is insane
 

kuba

TRIBE Member
that was the one I was referring to - the one on brooklyn. I also think it was an exclusive listing so not even on the major mls page. and still went crazy. it'll need $150K at least to renovate, so you're paying $1.1M+ closing to live in leslieville on a detached 25 foot wide lot.

we can't overestimate how much people want to walk to places nowadays.

SJN someone will probably pay close to that - another new infill sold for close to that north of danforth.
 

Spinsah

TRIBE Member
we can't overestimate how much people want to walk to places nowadays.
I think you hit the nail on the head. And while prices may be stabilizing across Canada, and even the broader GTA, in the old city proper, especially in walkable neighbouhoods, detached and semi-detached houses are going to continue to climb, as there is simply no way to add significant new stock. This city is densifying at a rapid rate and people don't want to be dependent on cars, yet they still want to live the pastoral ideal of a modest house with a yard.
 
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