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The Today Show and Matt Lauer

basketballjones

TRIBE Member
Look, someone else prefers a story than learning about how memory works (and doesn't with)
the fuck does this have to do with learning. he fucking lied...knowingly...as a long time tv anchor...knowing this shit was being recorded....and still fucking lied.

so according to you maybe all of the ppl who are making accusastions about sexual assualt dont really remember it precisely and filled in the blanks right....

there is a big difference between lying and being confused by what you saw/experienced.
 

Mondieu

TRIBE Member
Why is it inapplicable?

Isn't it always applicable? When could it ever NOT be??

By definition we would be talking about non humans
Fair enough. It’s always applicable. Poor choice of language on my part.

Having said that, I still don’t think it flies here. I can only base my call on personal experiences with extreme danger and trauma. ...and those of people close to me who’ve been through much worse.

Maybe I’m wrong. Perhaps he really is a textbook example of the condition you refer to. I just don’t believe it. Not for one second.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
I guess the main thing is the Brian Williams "lie" is entirely unremarkable. In his error he has the company of 7.6 billion fellow memory-confabulators.

Calling him out feels good I guess? If we just forget he's like us its easier to put on the disdain we kind of enjoy feeling when someone shows a weakness we like to think ourselves free of?
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
Also in that eyewitness testimony is coming increasingly under fire as problematic:

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/10/how-reliable-eyewitness-testimony-scientists-weigh

The Problem With Eyewitness Testimony

The Neuroscience of Memory: Implications for the Courtroom

I think its probably a good thing to purposefully bring ourselves to remember how unreliable our perceptions and memories are. The degradation of Brian Williams on this sometimes seems to imply that his deviation from the truth could ONLY be from some selfish vanity - that maybe memory IS a lot more solid right?

Does us good to be a bit more aware of how it really isn't that solid at all - especially since the real problem these days is people respecting the power of memory TOO MUCH instead of too little, and in the courtroom, lives are at stake.
 

basketballjones

TRIBE Member
I guess the main thing is the Brian Williams "lie" is entirely unremarkable. In his error he has the company of 7.6 billion fellow memory-confabulators.

Calling him out feels good I guess? If we just forget he's like us its easier to put on the disdain we kind of enjoy feeling when someone shows a weakness we like to think ourselves free of?
there you go again...so maybe you are trying to cover up YOUR weakness there praktik.
no one made him go on air and lie about something and then continually lie about it.
you are really trying hard to make a narrative that suits your own baloney
 

Mondieu

TRIBE Member
I guess the main thing is the Brian Williams "lie" is entirely unremarkable. In his error he has the company of 7.6 billion fellow memory-confabulators.

Calling him out feels good I guess? If we just forget he's like us its easier to put on the disdain we kind of enjoy feeling when someone shows a weakness we like to think ourselves free of?
I’ll pass on the “we” and just speak for me.

I don’t think that questioning the untruthful ramblings of ANYONE (who’s ramblings are worth questioning) is a feel-good pursuit.

...but when they’re worth questioning in the interest of truth, you can count me in.
 

Mondieu

TRIBE Member
again...Williams in the Lauer thread. Really ? half the thread.
come on. Focus !
We can simplify the entire pursuit by throwing all of the douche-bags into 2 categories.

ISOS (Ignorant sack of shit) thread.

LSOS (Lying sack of shit) thread.

Nice, tidy spots for the overabundant fodder on the growing exposition of assholes.
 

Mondieu

TRIBE Member
I haven’t watched the Today Show in many years. My grandma used to watch it daily. I remember it having a proper base in journalism and an editorial component. Last time I flipped by, they were talking about fruit garnishes and guest-seating etiquette for the holidays.

Since one of the hosts - apparently - warrents his own thread, I decided to check their website to see what the current focus and viewer demographic might be.

Pretty heavy stuff.

Trending - TODAY.com

Interesting tidbit - Django Reinhardt composed the theme they used in ‘62-‘63.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
there you go again...so maybe you are trying to cover up YOUR weakness there praktik.
no one made him go on air and lie about something and then continually lie about it.
you are really trying hard to make a narrative that suits your own baloney
It's not a lie if you believe it's true

Don't you watch Seinfeld???
Geez, bbj is a disdain factory
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
I’ll pass on the “we” and just speak for me.

I don’t think that questioning the untruthful ramblings of ANYONE (who’s ramblings are worth questioning) is a feel-good pursuit.

...but when they’re worth questioning in the interest of truth, you can count me in.
I recognize what he said was not the truth, because I recognize how frail and unreliable our perceptions and memories are.

So I don't need to invent bad motivations to explain why he was wrong, when there are reasonable explanations that don't require him to have been consciously lying, just falling prey to memory confabulation, which creates false memories, which leads people to relate untrue things as if they were true.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
Talk about conflating a story to suit ones narrative.
My use of the term "narrative" here is actually a technical application of it - narrative forms one of the core ways we structure our memories, and I brought up the term "narrative" in this respect.

In fact, all of us structure most everything we ever think and everything we've ever said in a narrative form, which renders this point of yours mostly boring and obvious - am I conflating a story to suit my narrative?

100%. So is everyone else.

Its how human beings think and store (and revise!) memory. Memory is Narrative; Narrative is Memory - Ronald B. Richardson - Sensitive Skin Magazine

So here, I have a narrative about the weaknesses of the human memory system, and Brian williams is a great example of these weaknesses, and I fit the story into THAT narrative, which competes with all the narratives going on in the minds of people who wish to reject MY narrative in favour of theirs.

So yes, aren't we all playing the narrative game, 100% of the time?
 

Bernnie Federko

TRIBE Member
Yup, and it makes you come off like a wooden, out of touch academic in this instance.

My use of the term "narrative" here is actually a technical application of it - narrative forms one of the core ways we structure our memories, and I brought up the term "narrative" in this respect.

In fact, all of us structure most everything we ever think and everything we've ever said in a narrative form, which renders this point of yours mostly boring and obvious - am I conflating a story to suit my narrative?

100%. So is everyone else.

Its how human beings think and store (and revise!) memory. Memory is Narrative; Narrative is Memory - Ronald B. Richardson - Sensitive Skin Magazine

So here, I have a narrative about the weaknesses of the human memory system, and Brian williams is a great example of these weaknesses, and I fit the story into THAT narrative, which competes with all the narratives going on in the minds of people who wish to reject MY narrative in favour of theirs.

So yes, aren't we all playing the narrative game, 100% of the time?
 

Klubmasta Will

TRIBE Member
again...who introduced Williams into the Lauer scenario...apples and grapes.
I brought up Brian Williams in this thread, as he and Matt Lauer were the mega-stars of NBC News, and I was saddened by their respective falls from grace. Surely this board does not get so much traffic that we can't handle two topics in one thread?

I haven’t watched the Today Show in many years. My grandma used to watch it daily. I remember it having a proper base in journalism and an editorial component. Last time I flipped by, they were talking about fruit garnishes and guest-seating etiquette for the holidays.
The Today Show is three hours long on each weekday, and usually two hours on Saturday/Sunday. The first 30 minutes is devoted entirely to U.S./world news. The next 30 minutes is news and human interest stories. They don't get into the Martha Stewart type stories until after 8:15am. I like their news coverage, as I find it balanced and their journalists are entertaining and smart. They also get more than their share of exclusive interviews/stories/announcements given that it's the most watched morning news program in every demographic.
 

Klubmasta Will

TRIBE Member
praktik - to be clear, are you arguing that it is possible - and perhaps even plausible - that Brian Williams honestly mis-remembered the incident, or are you stating that you are fairly certain that's what happened?

I could absolutely agree with the first part, that it's a reasonable possibility and that he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I think it's a hard sell to convince folks that he MUST have honestly mis-remembered the incident. He described the incident as being in a helicopter that was forced to land after being being fired upon by enemy combatants, while the real story is that he was in a helicopter that followed the same path, an hour later, as a helicopter that came under enemy fire. I think it's fair for the folks that call him a liar to think it reasonable that one could remember being SHOT AT when it did not actually occur.
 

Klubmasta Will

TRIBE Member
Back to Matt Lauer, as a fan of the show, I have been waiting to see if Katie Couric and/or Meredith Viera would say anything publicly about the situation. They have both in the past expressed their "love" for him, and their statements would be helpful to him now, especially because some media are using (i) a clip of Matt Lauer saying to Meredith Viera, "Pretty sweater, keep bending over like that, it's a nice view," and (ii) a clip of Katie Couric saying (perhaps jokingly) in a 2012 interview that Matt Lauer "pinched [her] on the ass a lot."

Ann Curry - who has the most reason to feel some vindication, as NBC fired her amidst what she felt was a sexist work environment - took the high road, which is what we'd expect from someone as classy as she. Ann Curry Is 'Still Processing' Matt Lauer Firing News: 'We Need to Make Our Workplaces Safe'
 

Klubmasta Will

TRIBE Member
Katie Couric could barely contain her gushing when recently celebrating Matt Lauer's 20th anniversary at the show:


If you take the time to watch the above clip, you may agree that he's had an incredible career as a journalist/host.
 

kyfe

TRIBE Member
Not to downplay what is happening with the SA claims against many many people but I'm beginning to wonder if we're entering an era of creating an expectation of perfect people. kind of like hockey players in interviews (flat boring and not contraversial).

Everyone has some skeletons in their closet and now we're seeing people being held accountable for decades old transgressions and not really considering the context at that time and in that specific situation. Ie certain things that were acceptable in the 60/70's for example IE summer of love etc

I'm not saying what's happening is wrong because there's been a lot of things that have been put forward that are concerning but I'm more wondering how micro this will go? will we start looking at how people vote, misrepresentations etc and ruining people over it. What is the measurement we're going to use, if you say someone looks nice and they complain, could you lose your job over a misunderstanding like that?
 
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