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the talking heads talk: the debate thread

man_slut

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Hypnotoad
Also, Duceppe might be an idiot, but he sure is funny.
He is funny to watch... it's like... he really has nothing to debate and just ridicules the Conservatives and Liberals... I get a chuckle! :D

What was up with both Layton's and Harper's blatent toned down voices? You could see them straining thier emotions... Martin was on the defense for most of the debate. So his voice was a lot more acertive... I wonder if that's an actual tactic being used?:confused:

I found Laytons bit on government accountability positive and in the right direction... where as the Liberals and Conservatives avoided the issue like the plague.
 

LivingRoomPornstar

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by AdRiaN
Since when do the decisions of unelected and unscrutinized judges represent the general consensus of the electorate?

By definition, Parliament is supposed to represent the electorate, with the judicial branch as a "check." Conversely, Parliament is a "check" on the judicial branch.
I tend to lean towards Adrian on this one...the balance of power here is key.
 

Bass-Invader

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by man_slut

I found Laytons bit on government accountability positive and in the right direction... where as the Liberals and Conservatives avoided the issue like the plague.
What? The conservatives had a whole Act dedicated to it, in fact it was called the 'accountability act'.
 

Genesius

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by man_slut

I found Laytons bit on government accountability positive and in the right direction... where as the Liberals and Conservatives avoided the issue like the plague.
I'm with ya on the Gilles bit, but I have to call foul about the cons avoiding the accountability issue, why did you feel that?

Their platform has a proposal to introduce a law making gov more accountable, I thought that was clear.
 

Sunshyne Jones

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Lurker
Duceppe's emPHAsis is pretty funny.

They're all twats.

My g/f and I are drinking a shot (of white wine...we suck :p) whenever these assholes say "Quebec" "defecit" "scandal" and "culture of entitlement".

We can't really keep up with Duceppe, but it is making things a bit more interesting.

I'm kinda liking Duceppe, mostly because he's seemed to steer away from as much of the personal attack shit that the other assholes have been involved in.

Harper always busts out that used car salesman smile when he's about to pitch his point. makes me want to punch my TV.

Layton is speaking like Bush Jr. in 3 word sentence fragments. Give you viewers some fucking credit! They can listed to a full fucking sentence you twat!

Martin is getting too huffy and talking too much with his hands.
this made me laugh, but in agreement with you. you make some comments i was making too. i'm disappointed in layton's choices for this debate ... treating it more like a presentation, like an opportunity to speak rehearsed words in order to drive home points - important points, yes - but points that, as someone else pointed out above, he should have given the audience the credit to get on their own. I would have liked to have heard him expand on a few things, rather than repeat more general statements. still, i have to hand it to him on one score ... i watched the beginning of the cbc coverage of the debates and the first statement that was made about Layton's showing ended with a direct quoting of one of the NDP's main slogans ... one that Layton had said 3 times following a very basic "credo" of communications professionals that would say if you want to get your message across tell them three times. I thought it pretty obvious while he was doing it, and yet what a perfect soundbite to get in the media coverage immediately following.

still, for me, i'd have liked a little more substance because i like the direction he says his party is going in. i like a lot about the approach, especially as compared to harper.

i was ok with a lot of what martin was saying and how he was saying it - though he did get excited a few times and it was almost stressful to watch ... also, he needs to stop saying "the fact is" and just state the facts. someone on his team should give him a nudge and tell him that sometime. anyway, his final remarks seemed almost presidential ... i like his 'our country has huge potential' comments and the one country comments, but there are a lot of issues with the liberals now as we're being told.

i see genersius's comment above that layton was one long ndb commercial = exactly. too bad, too.

anyway, why duceppe????? and at the very least, why him and not the green party? i'd like to see how they would stand up, at least.

the moderator was very very good, hunh? he was the best of the lot.
 
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AdRiaN

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by LivingRoomPornstar
I tend to lean towards Adrian on this one...the balance of power here is key.
Not to mention only a few months ago, Paul Martin publicly stated that he would use the notwithstanding clause to protect freedom of religion if a court were going to force "churches, synagogues, mosques or temples to redefine marriage in a way that that particular religion did not want to."

And here we are tonight, listening to Paul Martin shit on the notwithstanding clause and propose its revokation. How can anyone believe a word this guys says?
 

Genesius

TRIBE Member


anyway, why duceppe????? and at the very least, why him and not the green party? i'd like to see how they would stand up, at least.

the moderator was very very good, hunh? he was the best of the lot. [/B]



I agree it doesn't have to be duceppe, but I think the key is that he doesn't really have anything to gain here, (english debate) which makes him a good critic. Where as the Green Party would obviously be concerned with their getting out the platform etc...

And I totally agree that the moderator was excellent, I've seen him on TVO a few times and he does very well there as well.

...can I vote for him?
 

Lysistrata

Well-Known TRIBEr
I said exactly the same thing while watching: it's too bad Layton can't debate, he just treats every chance to speak as an NDP commercial. And always just saying hte same things over nad over, tho they're all guilty of that.

he gets my vote for favourite moment, tho, for: "the liberals are corrupt and the conservatives are wrong." i liek that: they're just plain wrong. cuz they are. when harper was all on about improving child care in quebec i yelled at the tv "but they already have the best child care program!" and then layton said the exact same thing. becuase it's true.

harper's just evil. that little smirk and entirely pussy footing around teh question of raising income taxes for the poor even thoguh the moderator was repeatedly and pointedly askign him.

i liked the moderator.

and agreed on duceppe's humour value. he's got attitude like snap snap snap. i would like him to host a talk show. in english (of course it woudl never happen but it would be funny.) and then afterwards in the press conference part when he kept saying he's not going to say anythng to compromise his strategy: like really, is there anything big move he could make in tomorrow night's French debates?
 

djb

TRIBE Member
The Green Party officially filed a complaint about the debate exclusion..

that was the only thing they really hoped to achieve this election.

CBC

I think it could be a good thing.. They'd focused on selling their platform rather than mudslinging.
 
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dvs

TRIBE Promoter
Originally posted by AdRiaN
Not to mention only a few months ago, Paul Martin publicly stated that he would use the notwithstanding clause to protect freedom of religion if a court were going to force "churches, synagogues, mosques or temples to redefine marriage in a way that that particular religion did not want to."

And here we are tonight, listening to Paul Martin shit on the notwithstanding clause and propose its revokation. How can anyone believe a word this guys says?
true. it was mentioned it would be used if need be in an effort to protect the Bill of Rights not very long ago.

http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news.asp?id=421

d
 

tella

TRIBE Member
i'm on the fence. i've been on the fence since martin was forced to call the election.

if the bloc wants to be taken seriously, they should really start campaigning outside of quebec. gilles duceppe, no matter how amusing he may be, is wasting his breath.

i wish paul martin would get a clue and fucking step up as the prime minister of canada. he should quit defending the actions of chretien's government and remind canadians that canada has been a prosperous country for years now and part of that has been a result of his presence in ottawa.

harper makes me cringe. i prefer the conservative childcare plan over the liberal but at the same time, childcare isn't at the top of my priority list, especially since i feel people who have children should be responsible for the care of their own children (sorry!).



need i say more.

as for layton...i would love to vote for him but i don't feel confident in his abilities to lead our nation. i wish i did, but i just don't see it.

i hate the petty attacks and shoddy ads that the parties run against eachother. i'm not interested in hearing what the conservatives have to say about the liberals, nor am i interested in hearing what the liberals have to say about the conservatives. i want to hear each individual party's platforms and what they plan to do should their party have the privilege of leading canada for the next 4 years.

i've voted every oppurtonity i've had since i was old enough to vote. i've encourgaed everyone i know to exercise their right to vote. this year, i'm totally discouraged. it's like choosing the lesser of 3 evils...but in the end, i really dont feel like my vote will really make a difference.

bah humbug.
 

Gunark

TRIBE Member
a lot of insightful comments all around.....

but

keep in mind that with the exception of those who live in the Toronto-Danforth riding, pretty much no one in this thread will be voting for any of the people you saw in the debate. This isn't a presidential election. The PM is not quite the same as a chief executive.

Think about your local candidate first and foremost, and about the party and its leader only as a distant second. While I personally don't feel particularly inspired by Layton, my choice here in Trinity-Spadina is between Tony Ianno and Olivia Chow. It's a pretty easy decision for me, regardless of the "bigger picture" at the national level.
 
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Gunark

TRIBE Member
P.S. if you live in Trinity-Spadina, here is your third option, the Green Party candidate:



He enjoys chess, and books by Philip K. Dick.
 
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tella

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Gunark
a lot of insightful comments all around.....

but

keep in mind that with the exception of those who live in the Toronto-Danforth riding, pretty much no one in this thread will be voting for any of the people you saw in the debate. This isn't a presidential election. The PM is not quite the same as a chief executive.

Think about your local candidate first and foremost, and about the party and its leader only as a distant second. While I personally don't feel particularly inspired by Layton, my choice here in Trinity-Spadina is between Tony Ianno and Olivia Chow. It's a pretty easy decision for me, regardless of the "bigger picture" at the national level.
you're right but in the end, most people i know, vote for whatever party they support. when i lived in brampton, i rarely wanted to vote for the member of parliament in my riding, but always did because of the party they were affiliated with.

this year, i have a choice between layton, kren clausen and deborah coyne. like i said before, still seriously undecided.

i do feel the need to mention that i love the chinese restaurants on gerrard that have signs up for both parties. puts a smile on my face everytime.
 

deafplayer

TRIBE Member
some things that stuck out:

Harper - always trying to smile!:)
Did anyone else find this becoming a bit creepy?:) Such a forced, slight smile... :) really poorly executed, and it looked like he was constantly remembering to do it:)

Duceppe - what a fucking cool guy. Took a lot of guff from the other candidates and from the hosts, who in both English language debates dismissed sovereignty - the whole point of his party that has huge support in Quebec - as an illegitimate political cause
("seperatist" pfft... its called sovereignty you anti-democracy...ists!)

Martin - really pushing the vaguely olde fashioned, very romantic "Grand National Vision" pitch....... really overdoing that
looked like a conductor. Almost lost balance a few times due to overextended extremities. Obviously causing trouble for camera technicians who had to be quick to keep him on-screen

Layton - sounded like a TV commercial - *turns to look sternly into camera* and thats exactly why you should send more NDPers into parliment, where they will get results that you can see right away! After only one application!
 

LivingRoomPornstar

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Gunark
While I personally don't feel particularly inspired by Layton, my choice here in Trinity-Spadina is between Tony Ianno and Olivia Chow. It's a pretty easy decision for me, regardless of the "bigger picture" at the national level.
I agree with your choice, as i'm in the same riding, but the beauty of the system is that you have the choice of which level of government you identify with the most.

If I was awe inspired by the talent of Layton to lead this country, but didn't care much for Chow, I'd still most likely vote for NDP.

Dan
 

man_slut

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Bass-Invader
What? The conservatives had a whole Act dedicated to it, in fact it was called the 'accountability act'.
Ahhh yes how quickly I forget!

I should have said I enjoyed Layton's proposal to make lobbying essentially illegal.
 
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Sunshyne Jones

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Gunark
a lot of insightful comments all around.....

but

keep in mind that with the exception of those who live in the Toronto-Danforth riding, pretty much no one in this thread will be voting for any of the people you saw in the debate. This isn't a presidential election. The PM is not quite the same as a chief executive.

Think about your local candidate first and foremost, and about the party and its leader only as a distant second. While I personally don't feel particularly inspired by Layton, my choice here in Trinity-Spadina is between Tony Ianno and Olivia Chow. It's a pretty easy decision for me, regardless of the "bigger picture" at the national level.
Of course, BUT while I wasn't as inspired by Layton as I wanted to be last night, he and his party are asking key questions and pushing on key points in the house that i want someone to be pushing for. I'm still digging the NDP perspective more than the others and their approach too (ie. we won't win the whole thing, but if we get enough seats we can really get some things done). I like the current Liberal MP in my riding, actually, and if I only go by local politics I should probably vote for him. But if I want my vote to count for more NDP seats, I should probably vote for the NDP MP candidate for my riding. He seems pretty good too, though doesn't have the same level of political experience and achievements of my Liberal MP candidate.

tough choice re: my riding, not as tough a choice re: the big picture.
 

Sunshyne Jones

TRIBE Member
anyone going to watch the French debate tonight too? i think it'll be interesting to watch at least part of it, with English translation of course or else i'd be lost. i want to hear who can speak french the best, and who can debate best in french. (besides duceppe of course)
 

~atp~

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by deafplayer

Layton - sounded like a TV commercial - *turns to look sternly into camera* and thats exactly why you should send more NDPers into parliment, where they will get results that you can see right away! After only one application!
lol
 
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