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The rising crescendo of retardedness that could kill EDM


TRIBE Promoter
what happened to hip hop?

Great hiphop may be hard to find but its still out there. Check out Nu-marks new album its amazing.


best hiphop album in years. I hope people get to hear it.
Cannabis Seed Wedding Bands


Staff member
Ah, gone are the days when people played vinyl and producers strove to produce better, not worse tracks:

U.S. Techno-Industrial Base Eroding Due To Foreign Competition
MARCH 12, 1997 | ISSUE 31•09

"America faces a grave moment of crisis," said DJ Nathan Brackett, Secretary of Industrial and Hardcore, in a recent speech before Congress. "Vinyl imports from both Europe and Japan are threatening our nation's once-great techno-industrial power base. Our Gross National Beats Per Minute is at its lowest point since 1991. The message is clear: We must fuck up the mix, or all is lost."

In its late-'80s/early-'90s heyday, America's techno-industrial complex seemed unstoppable. Led by such formidable powers as Nine Inch Nails and Ministry, the U.S. achieved near-total dominance of the global dance-mix marketplace. Even in the traditionally insular Eurodisco field, the loud, banging, clamorous sound of American-made techno strongly influenced such foreign industrial powers as Front 242 and KMFDM.

Less than a decade later, however, the glory days of the American techno-industrial complex seem far away. With over 20,000 former clubgoing elite out of work in the warehouse district of Chicago, and the Detroit house scene over $7 billion in debt, bitterness over the nation's eroding techno-industrial base can be felt throughout its once-thriving industrial centers.

And with the rise of such overseas dope on wax as drum 'n' bass, ambient and jungle, the problem, experts say, is not going to go away any time soon.

In fact, many fear that foreign competition from such heavy-hitting imports as England's Prodigy and Chemical Brothers, Germany's Atari Teenage Riot and Japan's DJ Krush—whose rare vinyl imports fetch up to $29.99 domestically, even for a remix track—will overtake America's floundering techno-industrial base by the year 2000.

Many, including NYC illbient's DJ Spooky, contend that fault lies in American industrial's inability to adapt to the changing realities of modern times.

"We must retool America's angry, metallic, hard-edged industrial mix to better reflect the mellowtronic, groovadelic peace memes of the emergent global cyber-age," he said.

California's DJ Shadow agreed. "We are being beaten at our own game. Trip-hop was invented here, but right now, the British are simply doing it better," he said. "America has got to seriously remix its priorities."

In the face of the foreign dance-floor dominance, President Clinton is urging Congress to pump money into the revitalization of the nation's techno-industrial infrastructure.

"It is not enough to say, 'We must drop bass.' It is not enough to say, 'We must rock the crazy beats,'" President Clinton said Monday in a secret live appearance at D.C.'s famed underground The 930 Club. "If American techno is to become the world's leader once again, we must drop much bass; we must rock mad, phat-ass, crazy beats; and we must do so quick-fast in a hurry, 24-7, 365. And I am out."

Many conservatives in Congress, however, oppose to such change. "U.S. techno-industrial is hardcore, and it must stay hardcore," said Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT). "Would Al Jourgensen wear a T-shirt depicting smiley aliens telepathing 'Love' to their baggy-pantsed children? Techno should be about hate, not love. Techno is about wearing black and screaming, not standing in one place and swaying peacefully. I say, bring back the days of Skinny Puppy."

"Techno? Industrial? I am not familiar with these strange terms," said Rolling Stone magazine's Jann Wenner, speaking from one of his boats. "I do understand, however, that something called 'electronica' is the Next Big Thing. It says so right on the cover of our latest issue."

from the Onion


TRIBE Member
man, I just finished going on a youtube adventure of new live sets at whathave you miami conference.. some outdoor festival side tents..etc..

So like, I know.. but it just seems like in the old days, you'd do your hooks, drop your bass proper with changes, and people would like go crazy for a good 2 - 5 minutes, when you'd have to break it down to prevent people from dying..

why now you get your hooks and hype, drop the beat and people go a whopping 5-10 seconds before the crowd looks bored as fuck, then you need to keep recycling those hooks every 1-5 minutes, not he other way around..

it's a freaking tragedy!


TRIBE Member
It's "A.D.D. Style"....something I've noticed gaining popularity for a couple years.

Don't get me wrong, I love hearing a ton of songs if the set is programmed for that, but when you only hear like 30 seconds to a minute of a song before you're on to the next one....that gets boring to me.
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TRIBE Member
well it mostly seems to be like good tracks on the verge of total shit thanks to electro octaves gone wrong..

it's like "why, man!" and they do drop okay, but the electro thing just ruins it after a few bars and no one seems to correct anything..

it's just like everyone forgot how to gracefully go deeper in the interim and keep people going.. even the go go dancers look bored..
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TRIBE Member
wake up it's been over since IDANCE 2000, maybe it's cuz I iam older, jaded or finally off drugs. Gimme some hip hop, at least that genre is progressing. I am so sick of 4/4 and the typical dubstep breakbeat. I also blame bathsalts and xanax. Why..i dunno, but I do
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TRIBE Member
wake up it's been over since IDANCE 2000, maybe it's cuz I iam older, jaded or finally off drugs. Gimme some hip hop, at least that genre is progressing. I am so sick of 4/4 and the typical dubstep breakbeat. I also blame bathsalts and xanax. Why..i dunno, but I do

having a hard time with this one...

man, well I'd say jungle and d&b survived, but it's quickly becoming bastardized by dubstep.... hoo day!


TRIBE Member
david guetta recently co hosted with avicii for a night here in Vegas, and walked away with ' several hundred thousand ' dollars for his troubles.


TRIBE Member
sign of the times..

DJ Mark Farina bumped off at Marquee

DJ Mark Farina bumped off at Marquee :: CityBlog :: Las Vegas CityLife Blogs

When people say “house music,” they’re talking about one of two things. Either they’re referring to the largely underground, groove-heavy electronic music subgenre infused with R&B, funk, world music and disco … or a catch-all description for any song with a 4/4 dance beat, especially those on the pop charts. And when a Vegas club claims to champion house music, you can bet it means the latter and not the former.

This differential became apparent on Saturday, June 2, at Marquee Dayclub. The popular pool spot had scheduled and advertised an afternoon exclusively featuring authentic house music DJs, co-headlined by west coast house favorites Miguel Migs and Mark Farina. But when it was time for Farina’s set, he was asked to leave the decks.

So what happened? “It was the end of the afternoon and management made a decision to reschedule him for another day,” said a rep from Marquee. However, Farina said on his Twitter account that his crewmember was told the dayclub’s manager “was getting complaints from their table service crowd.” And, according to an attendee, Farina was replaced by another DJ who began playing more commercial house.

This is hardly a common occurrence for a dance music veteran and pioneer — or even at Marquee, where we’ve heard and enjoyed real house music in the past. The spot famously opened with electronic dance music on both weekend nights — a rarity for non-afterhours spots on the Strip — and openly touted its house credentials. But it’s also not the first time a respected national DJ has been bumped from the decks by club management. DJ Jazzy Jeff was pulled from the Surrender booth in 2010, reportedly due to his musical selections, and in 2001, the former Club Ra benched house duo Deep Dish after an athlete VIP demanded to hear hip-hop.

Marquee, which led all national dance spots in earnings last year, doesn’t make the majority of its dough at the box office or its bars — that $70 million largely comes from its bottle service sales and the rental of its cabanas, both typically costing a visiting party in the thousands. While it may still be a universal faux paux for Joe Clubber to walk up to a DJ and request a song, I’ve heard multiple times about VIPs waving their big wallets around, trying to treat a club like their jukebox — and sometimes, they get their way. Even Deadmau5 has his price, as the electro/prog house titan reportedly netted $100,000 for dropping Bon Jovi’s “Livin’ On a Prayer” at XS last year, upon a VIP’s request.

If Farina’s assertion is true, the incident couldn’t have happened at a worse time for Marquee: It’s one of the host venues for Electric Daisy Carnival week, which starts Tuesday and is threatening to overtake Miami’s Winter Music Conference as the big go-to dance music confab in the U.S. Now’s not the time to have your musical integrity called into question. Farina may have been reserved and resigned about his ouster, but if underground house legend Danny Tenaglia — who once berated sound techs at the former C2K in front of a packed club — is so much as looked the wrong way by the bottle service clubbers he so loathes during his June 11 gig at Marquee’s pool, expect a lot more noise and headlines.

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TRIBE Member
underground house legend Danny Tenaglia — who once berated sound techs at the former C2K in front of a packed club — is so much as looked the wrong way by the bottle service clubbers he so loathes during his June 11 gig at Marquee’s pool, expect a lot more noise and headlines.

gotta love how danny tee "loathes" the bottle service crowd but yet has no trouble taking the gig and/or money from the club thats booking him that basically only *exists* because of bottle service

good times


TRIBE Member
Oh well, let's all go back down to the underground! It's better there anyway. We'll peek our heads out, like groundhogs, every now and then and see if there's anything worthwhile...

Sal De Ban

TRIBE Member
gotta love how danny tee "loathes" the bottle service crowd but yet has no trouble taking the gig and/or money from the club thats booking him that basically only *exists* because of bottle service

good times

i think turning down work and turning down gigs is much more egotistical.
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TRIBE Promoter
John 'OO', hittting the nail on the head!

I've put myself in a unique position as I'm promoting my own events with my JOOF Editions concept. This
brings me a lot closer to other promoters as we discuss where the scene is at on various levels. It's a precious insight to assist my job as a DJ, journalist, promoter and label boss to keep my finger on the pulse of where this industry is at.

A very common topic that has surfaced a lot recently, not only in my office, but with other promoters is who to book talent wise. When I program an event, I choose talent that can actually DJ. I want a DJ that I can trust to read the crowd and change accordingly. This keeps the continuity in tact of my vision of how the event unfolds musically and how and when it will reach its crescendo thus keeping the dance floor interesting throughout the whole evening.
Its unfortunate that we have all come to the same conclusion that this list of true DJ's is now becoming very, very short.

Over the past decade the scene seems to have split in two, in one camp we see ‘Entertainment/producer DJ's’ and in the other we find the ‘Traditional DJ's’ From my first hand experience of playing alongside entertainment/producer DJ's, I've had to rescue many nights as they didn't have the skill nor the tools of a DJ to read the crowd and change to the circumstances presented to them.

Producers/entertainment DJ's are the equivalent of bands touring. When you go to see Muse, U2 etc, you expect them to play all their hits you’ve heard on their albums. Its part of the experience seeing them in the flesh playing the songs you truly love. Producers fit firmly in this camp. They have massive followings and fans go crazy seeing them play live. They replace keyboards with decks, as its much easier for them to tour this way, so they become DJ’s.

They are performing mini concerts to concert-esque crowds, to fans constantly holding cameras, singing songs. Producers will play just one style of music, mainly their own productions and music from their own label groups. They are marketing machines pushing their own brand. Their own sound. Focus on genre branding. They are there to outshine any other act around them and become man of the match. This is the exact same way bands and the pop world work, but also what makes them great entertainers on stage due to the ever increasing pressure of competition around them.

Entertainment DJ’s are a million miles away from the regular world of traditional DJ’s. I personally don't know one single traditional DJ that just plays one sound, they have a record bag full of all styles of music in order to be able to deal with any situation presented to them. Our audiences are completely different too, they want to get on the dance floor with their heads down and dance. They want to be stimulated by new music that’s cleverly programmed. Good DJ's get a natural ‘feeling’ of when to make energy shifts on the dance floor ensuring that we keep the floor busy and interesting. We spend hours searching for music, this being our tools for the job while making these energy shifts.

When I play a DJ set I'll go through all styles of music; deep, dark, hard, uplifting, classics etc etc. These are my tools to give you an emotional ride. My sets are like an audio version of a thriller movie, with twists and turns. You never quite know what the ending is, so it keeps you on the edge of your seat all through the ride.
We're storytellers. I still find it ridiculous that I've been tagged a 'Psy' DJ, when I play all styles of music in my set. But that’s they way of the new world, music must have a marketed genre tag. I've never actually changed my style of DJing over the past 20 odd years, but the genres tags around me have. I've been named a Goa, Progressive, uplifting, Techno and now Psy trance DJ? The next marketed 'fad' will dictate what I'm tagged next, when the goal posts change once again.

I think many people are starting to miss this style of DJ. They want this intense stimulation on the dance floor. Some of the greatest club nights that made their mark in history were promoted, programmed and ran by traditional DJ's. Shoom, Ministry of Sound, Gatecrasher, Twilo etc. Many people crave for those good days to come back. Back then it was all about the music with DJ's supporting each other and being gentlemen as they set things up musically for the next DJ to take over. Today I feel these events are controlled by agents getting what they want.

Clubs like Passion in the UK are listening, as they always have done. Passion invited me to play a solo 5-hour set. Their words; 'we want to showcase ONE headline artist all night long performing the true art of being a DJ and mixing records how they should be mixed'. I was instantly sold. That’s the key words right there, 'the true art of DJing'. This is something that has been missing from clubland for a very long time being superseded by entertainment DJ's.

From our collective research, this is what promoters/clubbers want again, and many more are thinking this way too. These solo events could be the start of something really special for Passion. I know many touring DJs don't get to play what they really want, they get only one or two hours to play and that crowd will expect full energy. I also believe many have lost that skill of DJing, because they have fallen into the category of entertainment DJing. Their track lists show this as they play all their own stuff. They no longer dedicate all their time hunting for new exciting music. There's no point, as they don't get a change to play it. This could all change with concepts like Passion are offering.

We've hardly seen any new traditional DJ's break through over the past decade. They haven't got the training grounds to learn their craft, we need these weekly clubs back.
Being a traditional DJ, something seems so wrong that you have to make productions to get gigs, in my eyes these two careers are two completely different jobs.

Both Traditional DJ's and entertainment/producers DJ’s can sit comfortably together in the same scene, but I can't help but think we were pushed to one side....that’s until now



TRIBE Member
well said by john 00

classy too. got his point across without naming names or denigrating.

a lot of you might not agree with me but i think edm already saw a cheesy peak in the late 90s with the commercialized rave movement. the parties were massive, the venues were owned by the city, the performers were making tons of money, the music was cheesy and the majority of the people who were part of that scene stopped supporting edm the moment the rave fad passed.

was it outright pop and pushed so hard by labels, agents and other commercial interests? no, not as much.


TRIBE Member
we were at downsview playing soccer and it looks liek they're already setting up for veld.. tents and portapotties everywhere (I had the honor of pissing in one of them on the way to the game).. so that makes me first!

there were references to it and veld after the game, and everyone's like ooh yeah man, deadmouse..

yeah! hi fives!
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