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The OSAP makes me want to cry thread

Discussion in 'TRIBE Main Forum' started by Lysistrata, Nov 9, 2004.

  1. Agatka8

    Agatka8 TRIBE Member

    I'm at $400/month in OSAP payments.
    It is very painful.

    While in school I was in a coop program that paid a decent amount. But even so, I needed more money as I lived away form home.

    My last two years of school consisted of four month school terms broken up by 4month work terms.
    Because of this program arrangement (dictated by the school) I did not qualify for any LOAN forgiveness.
    I don't understand THESE regulations...and it makes me really angry.. knowing that people who just went to school for 2terms back to back, and worked at the mall over the summer, qualified for loan forgiveness and I DID NOT.

    If I could do it again, I'd live at home while in school.
  2. Cheer Bear

    Cheer Bear TRIBE Member

  3. judge wopner

    judge wopner TRIBE Member

    think long term,
    university educated people consistently and overwhelmingly surpass non-degree holders in annual income,
    but it may take a few extra years as you climb the corporate ladder.....

    akin to the rich man bitching about how long his big fat turkey dinner is taking to cook while the servants eat tuna out of a can...
    patience and some sweat!!

    dont say there are no jobs out there for BA's, you gotta use those letters to make shit happen.
    what would you prefer, a free education at the greater expense to the taxpayer, who by majority dont have degrees, and still reap the rewards a higher education brings?

    focus on the opportunity of the BA or what ever instead of the fact that you may have to move your ass a little more than youre used to, so that you can meet the hard payment schedules.
  4. miguel

    miguel TRIBE Member

    also some people might consider going to school part time and working fulltime.. longer degrees but less debt and more sanity in the long run..

    my last year of uni i worked fulltime and paid about 5 thousand in tuition.. the government ended up giving me 3200$ back in my tax return.. i don't have anything else that is tax deductible so i was surprised i got so much money back.. i guess you get more back if you earn more?? but in the end those 5 thousand ended up really just being 1800.. that's not bad! i'm probably one of the lucky ones but the part time school thing was right for me. graduated with no debt
  5. FoxyM

    FoxyM TRIBE Member

    Same thing here. I found that working 25 hours / week and going to school full-time I actually got 2,500 back in taxes which paid for half of my schooling for that year. I'm glad I never got OSAP because I too would probably be crying right now. :(
  6. Boo

    Boo TRIBE Member

    I went to school in Ireland. Paid 0 tuition and got a grant of over 3 grand to cover books and expenses. I worked during my last year full time and had a fair chunk of money to come back here with debt free.

    Canada is proud of its free health care system, and rightly so, but education is also a basic right. All people who want to go to school, and have the ability should be able to. Health care costs every canadian $3000 per head, per year. I've been to the hospital once, and the doctors once in the last 5 years, I have not got my $15000 worth. THat money could have been used for education instead of free health care which primarily benefits the older crowd. A 55 year old man earning 250k can afford to pay for a doctor. A student struggling making 10k a year, can't afford tuition fees.

    My bro is graduating MAC this year and will be 30k in debt, I feel your pain. The fact that even bankcrupcy can't save you from the almighty reach of an underfunded education system is also a joke. I'd be crying too at the thought.
  7. Nyana

    Nyana TRIBE Member

    There have been a few cases recently where the judges have allowed student loans to be "forgiven" with the rest of the bankrupt. debt if the individual can prove "undue" hardship. The creditors know this. If you have absolutely no liquid assets, the creditors can't really get anything from you .... I have a friend whose loans have been sent to the creditors. She has been paying them $35 a month for over a year now. Each month they call him and ask for the money and each time he tells them in a calm manner that he would like to pay them more, but he can't afford it - so they keep cashing his post-dated cheques. She plans to claim bankruptcy in a couple of years and claim "undue hardship" so that her loans are "forgiven" with the rest of the debt.
  8. Vote Quimby

    Vote Quimby TRIBE Member

    If she's planning it, she won't necessarily get it. And where is she going to get the money to fight it?

    It's amazing the number of people who claim bankruptcy on such small amounts. Of course the trustees are more than willing to take your thousand dollars to file those papers for you.

    People really need to stop whining about their loans. Everyone's got them, we all have to pay them back. Suck it up and pay them.

    Yea, it would be nice if education was free or a lot cheaper, but the reality is that it's not. We're all in the same boat. So suck it up and pay them back like the rest of us.

    And stay away from the private schools. They jack up their fees because they know that the students will get OSAP and pay the school. They don't care if you graduate or if you do, if you get a job when you're done. I know of one "beauty" school that charged over $10,000 a year. Poor girl was never going to pay back that loan. Needless to say we settled for a small amount.

    A word to the wise. Exhaust all avenues of help offered by the government once you are in repayment. Get Interest Relief, get loan forgiveness, get debt reduction. Get whatever they offer before declaring bankruptcy. It ain't worth it.
  9. Boo

    Boo TRIBE Member

    Hey Quimby, are you in the Bankrupcy trustee business? What are the real disadvantages to declaring bankrupcy, other than the obvious 7 year black mark on your credit history?

    I mean if you are going to be in debt for 10 years making the payments (and forking out 10's of thousands) for a mediocre credit score, why would having 7 years payind for things in cash be such a bad thing?

    I ask out of a personal curiosity, as i have a few friends/family who are very seriously looking at the bankrupcy route.
  10. litespeed

    litespeed Well-Known TRIBEr

    In regards to student loan debt that is already in default, the federal government will forgive loans under certain circumstances. However, the provincial gov't basically never does and there is no real loan forgivness program in place. You might be able to get your debt placed on hold but at the end of the day you still owe the money.

    As for including loans being included in bakruptcy, you can't do it. There is specific legislation pertaining to this. Check the bankruptcy and insolvency act. you must wait 10 years after your study end date before it can be done. Provincial gov't also lists collection items on the credit bureau.

    Also note that as per the limitations act of 2002 there is no statute of limitations on provincial gov't debts. So basically untill legislation changes if you owe money for a student loan to the provincail gov't, you owe it and can't get out of it untill at least 10 years after you leave school. By that time most people are fairly established and you'd be a fool to file bankruptcy then.

    However, note that student loan debts to the federal gov't are stats bared after 6 years providing you don't aknowledge them. Also note that the federal gov't does NOT list collection items for student loan debts on credit bureaus. However, the will place a lean on you SIN # and seize any income tax refunds you might have comeing to you along with GST cheques.
  11. Vote Quimby

    Vote Quimby TRIBE Member

    I'm not a trustee, but I have seen a number of bankruptcy papers. My department handled bankruptcy documents.

    Aside from the 7 year black mark, you have an inability to get new credit for a few years. You may have to pay higher rates if you do get credit.

    Until you are discharged, which is at least 9 months, you must report everything to the trustee and the courts, all income over and above what you need to live is given away to the creditors and you live on a budget.

    If they have serious amounts of debt, non student loans, then it might be worth it to get out from the hole and start new.

    But too often people have declared bankruptcy on $10,000 or less. Which imo, is really not worth it.

    If the amounts are not that substantial, they may want to look into credit counselling, which is a free service (i believe), which contacts all creditors and tryies to work out payment arrangements with them. They become your contact, which helps take the stress out of dealing with all the creditors.

    Other options are Consumer Proposals or Oderly Payments of Debt. Both are done by a trustee.

    Each situation is different. Just be wary of the trustees. They always get paid. First. So it's in their best interest for you to declare bankruptcy.

    People just need to weigh the pros and cons before making any decision like this.
  12. djdeposit

    djdeposit TRIBE Member

    this is bad bad
    how can you charge that much interest?:rolleyes:

    I feel for you guys...........I only have a 5000$ debt which is nothing compared to some of you. But it still feels like shit because you could buy a half decent car for that amount.

  13. Vote Quimby

    Vote Quimby TRIBE Member

    They don't charge that much interest now that they moved to a floating rate. Prime + 2.5% for a Fed loan, Prime + 1% for Ontario loan.

    My Fed loan was frozen at 9.25%. And some other were even higher.
  14. djdeposit

    djdeposit TRIBE Member

    someone told me that like 10 -15 years ago, students who received loans would actually not have to pay them by the end of their schooling.!!!!

    is this true?
  15. Vote Quimby

    Vote Quimby TRIBE Member

    They didn't have to pay them if they chose to walk away from them and then suffer bad credit for 7 years. And constant calls from collections.
  16. djdeposit

    djdeposit TRIBE Member

    if i had $40,000 in debt, that doesn't sound too bad
  17. Vote Quimby

    Vote Quimby TRIBE Member

    If you had that much in debt 10-15 years ago, you probably are making more than enough to pay it back.
  18. djdeposit

    djdeposit TRIBE Member

    should I go to university even if it costs me an extra 30 G's?
    right now im about to graduate college!
  19. Boo

    Boo TRIBE Member

    Its not just the 30 G's...

    If you want to look at it from a purely economical point of view consider...

    -Most employers don't really distinguish between college and university for entry level jobs. And after that, your experience will matter more than the school you went too.

    -A degree IS slightly more desireable, but is it worth the difference in actual skills or just the prestige / paper its written on?

    -$30,000 just tuition, will an employer pay this as a premium in your first few years working because you have a degree and not a diploma?

    -the opportunity cost of obtaining the degree is much more than $30k. Say it takes you 3 years to get. Assuming expenses are the same, you could probably make at least 25k per annum by working rather than going to school. The opportunity cost of the degree climbs to $105k. (You could have made $75k by not going to school, plus the money you paid)

    -are you going to make the $105k back? Saying you got an extra 10k a year for going to Uni, it might seem worth it. But you have to take the time value of money into account. $105k now is prolly worth over $200k in 10 years time using discounted cash flows. Not to mention the interest on any loans, and hassle of debt.

    -going to school for 3 years will mean you are going to be 3 years behind on the career ladder. Will the degree, allow you to leapfrog over a non degree holder via expertise or status rather than experience?

    IMO it doesn't make sense to go to school for the sake of it. to try to slightly better your chances to get our foot in the door. Do it via night school, maybe try to get your work to pay for some/all of it. Its a bitch working at the same time, but it will be more relevant, and you will know then if its worth it too you. Thats just me

    (sorry for all the boring calculations lol_
  20. phunkymunky

    phunkymunky TRIBE Member

    that is why we have a shortage of skilled workers. people that WANT to be doctors/dentists/etc.... can't afford it even though they really wanna do it.
  21. Lysistrata

    Lysistrata Well-Known TRIBEr


    So I didn't work till noon today so I thought I could call this morning and get this sorted out.

    It took me a good minute and a half after hearing the recorded message to remember what 'holiday' this is that they were off for.


    Becuase I think you can only call during business ours, and I work business hours friday monday tuesday. So I can't call again till next wednesday. FUCK ME SIDEWAYS.
  22. Skipper

    Skipper TRIBE Member

    ahh, to work for the government.
  23. judge wopner

    judge wopner TRIBE Member

    no way.

    the notion that health care is on the same level of human rights as post-secondary education is short sighted and economically painful for canadians.

    doctors and lawyers and their ilk make astronomically higher incomes overall compared to undergraduate students, why shouldnt they pay more. too fucking bad if youre going to be 100k in debt when you graduate, in a short time that will be but a memory.

    since when is free school on the same level as life-saving health care treatment? everyone gets health care in this nation because we realize its vital to our collective health and spirit. but a free university degree goes nowhere near to that when we have a glut of university educated kids already complaining how a BA is so common its worthless.

    our shortage of doctors is not in any way an indication of prohibitive costs of medical school, its the lack of open spots. yes, its very expensive and if youre very poor it may prove unrealistic but how far must we go to fund post-secondary education if as many on this board admit it isnt even required for many jobs, and alot of people dont know what to do with themselves once they get it.

    there is a shortage of tradespeople "skilled labour" not becuase of costs, they will actually pay you while youre learing, but people are too white collar focused. we bitch about getting cheaper BA's for what?

    who cares what ireland does, has it really come this in canada that we look to ireland for fucking direction in social policy?
  24. Vote Quimby

    Vote Quimby TRIBE Member

    The NLSC - Public division is open to at least 9pm EST. Plus they open at 7:30. I believe. I'll confirm it tomorrow when I go to work.
  25. Lysistrata

    Lysistrata Well-Known TRIBEr

    hahaha, there's no way I'm calling BEFORE work: so not a morning person. But that's great if they're open late--no need to check, I can try calling tomorrow night after work.

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