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The Mom Thread

echo

TRIBE Member
1 in 500 seems wildly high to me, especially given the number of babies that are given that shot every day.
That's because those numbers are based on two small UK studies from the early 90's that were published by Goldberg et al in BMJ. When the numbers are small, the odds ratios can really throw off the "stats" that people will quote!

They were both small retrospective studies looking at kids with cancer - the first was only 33 cases, and the second was around 150 cases. Retrospective studies are not necessarily your "gold standard" when it comes to proving correlations.

Since then, there have been two large retrospective studies in the US and Sweden - both did NOT confirm Goldberg's findings. There was also a large case control study (better for figuring out correlations) that did not confirm the findings, and a "meta" study that combined the results of 6 case control studies that didn't confirm the findings.

This paper talks about the past studies, and has links to in the references to each. You have to click on the PMC free article link.

Vitamin K in neonates: facts and myths

Based on all that info, I personally don't believe that there is a link btw the two. Lilah had the Vit K shot, though our midwives gave us the option of the shot vs the oral suspension. I was too worried about remembering to give her the oral drops as it had to be done on a number of different occasions over baby's first few weeks of life (when I knew I'd probably be sleep-deprived and suffering from a case of baby brain! Haha
 

echo

TRIBE Member
I would never ever say that labor sucks.

It was the most wonderful day of my entire life. The pain is just part of getting the most special gift one can ever get.
Say all moms with 20/20 hindsight! Heh

Having a baby was amazing, and lookin BACK on my experience, I can definitely say it was a pretty fantastic labour and delivery; BUT in the moment I distinctly remember thinking to myself "why on earth do women choose to DO this to themselves again (and again)!?!" and "I am never having another" and "I don't know how much longer I can do this for" haha.

For me, it sucked not knowing how much longer I was going to be labouring for. Once I started pushing though - it was much better. And of course now, I have no problem with the idea of doing it all over again, as the reward is certainly worth the pain many times over :)
 

geminigirl

TRIBE Member
Say all moms with 20/20 hindsight! Heh

Having a baby was amazing, and lookin BACK on my experience, I can definitely say it was a pretty fantastic labour and delivery; BUT in the moment I distinctly remember thinking to myself "why on earth do women choose to DO this to themselves again (and again)!?!" and "I am never having another" and "I don't know how much longer I can do this for" haha.

For me, it sucked not knowing how much longer I was going to be labouring for. Once I started pushing though - it was much better. And of course now, I have no problem with the idea of doing it all over again, as the reward is certainly worth the pain many times over :)
Totally!:)
 

janiecakes

TRIBE Member
You learn that pain is triggered by fear and you work through all that, as a normal process that a woman was designed for.
This idea makes me kind of nuts because it implies that women with difficult labours didn't "work through their fear." Hypnobirthing seems like a great idea to me and I am all for women feeling empowered to deal with labour, but I would rather they be empowered to deal with the fact that labour is not a walk in the park and can be really hard and amazing, not put down by some idea that if it hurts or sucks you're doing it wrong. Maybe that's just my grumpy ass - I get frustrated by the whole power of positive thinking over your body yadda yadda.
 
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sk8

TRIBE Member
Trying not to stress, just got a call from my better half, she has to go get an ultrasound to make sure the little guy is growing properly :( The midwife says she's not highly concerned since she is having regular movement but since her uterus isn't as big as expected she just wants to check. Small baby? Im going to be there.
I had this with Maya - I was measuring on average 5 weeks behind where I was supposed to. Turns out regular sized baby smashed into a small uterus. She was born 2 weeks early at 7lbs 10oz (or 13oz... I get them mixed up) - anyway - perfectly fine, no issues with labour or delivery.

I feel it took longer for her to start stretching out though LOL - I just assumed she'd be smushed in there for so long that she was used to being curled up.
 

mcbee

TRIBE Member
This idea makes me kind of nuts because it implies that women with difficult labours didn't "work through their fear." Hypnobirthing seems like a great idea to me and I am all for women feeling empowered to deal with labour, but I would rather they be empowered to deal with the fact that labour is not a walk in the park and can be really hard and amazing, not put down by some idea that if it hurts or sucks you're doing it wrong. Maybe that's just my grumpy ass - I get frustrated by the whole power of positive thinking over your body yadda yadda.
agreed.

While I have no actual labour experience to relate with, its this 'listen to your body, let go of your fear etc etc' type of thinking that I think definately contributes to people like me feeling like less of a mom because I didn't experience the pain. Or contributes to women feeling like a failure or weak because they choose pain relief (in whatever form).

Now that I have 20/20 hindsight, I'm all for empowering woman to have the labour they want and feel happy with (what ever it involves!). This happiness with however your labour played out, its the most empowering thing of all...being okay with your route to parenthood definately helps in the early days!

Brooklyn had the vit k shot, the eye goop and the heel prick..but all delayed so that Kevin could have skin to skin with her in the operating room and so I could have skin to skin with her in the recovery room. I felt like delaying them all was a good compromise...we still got the baby bonding and Brooklyn got the health benefits.

:)sarah
 

rubytuesday

TRIBE Member
I didn't do any hypnobirthing but I read a lot about the birth process and prepared in my own way (I read lots of active birth stuff), I didn't have the patience for the videos and my bf had no interest in reading or watching anything (he did learn some massage techniques on our 1 day birth class - that was literally all of his prep). And we had a very good home birth, and my bf was great, so I'm sure it can help but I also think women can get through labour in different ways and it's all good.

I know a lot of moms who couldn't have a home birth and who blame themselves for not being able to perform somehow and I think that's a shame, I don't know if it's because of this hypnobirthing stuff or just the competitive/comparative nature that can surround parenting nowadays but every mom should feel good about becoming a mom. My endurance athlete friend had to have an epidural and feels bad about it but it's not like she has a lower pain threshold than me or anything, it's so individual what happens during labour and also the baby can affect things quite a bit, there are a lot of hard to control factors at play.

I feel it took longer for her to start stretching out though LOL - I just assumed she'd be smushed in there for so long that she was used to being curled up.
L was a biggish baby in my average-sized uterus but boy did he kick the shit out of my upper ribs through the final months. And now he needs to be able to kick his feet over his blankets, I would love to use those sleep sacks but he hates them, and if I tuck him in he gets mad if his feet can't escape. I wonder if it's similar to how he felt before he was born, so mad that he couldn't kick over, it's so funny how they bring their little ticks with them into the world.
 

sk8

TRIBE Member
Elissa hated swaddling and sacks and anything like that too. People kept insisting that I should swaddle her and she was like a little houdini. I finally gave up wrapping her when I realized that it was august and we lived in an old farmhouse with no AC - little thing was probably sweltering.

She still sleeps spread eagle and kicks her blankets off.
 

KillaLadY

TRIBE Member
This idea makes me kind of nuts because it implies that women with difficult labours didn't "work through their fear." Hypnobirthing seems like a great idea to me and I am all for women feeling empowered to deal with labour, but I would rather they be empowered to deal with the fact that labour is not a walk in the park and can be really hard and amazing, not put down by some idea that if it hurts or sucks you're doing it wrong. Maybe that's just my grumpy ass - I get frustrated by the whole power of positive thinking over your body yadda yadda.
I used to think that way, but my mom's death changed the entire perspective I had on life.

For some people, positive thinking IS key and it works. I have had nothing but an uplifting, positive, life-changing experience so far and nothing that has been advised has even come close to the type of experience I have had so far in terms of pregnancy. I am confident my labour/birth would be just the same and I am nothing short of excited to experience it.

Everywhere I go, I head horror stories about how people became pregnant, how their pregnancy was and how painful birth was, how much struggle it was with being a new mom, lack of sleep etc. I just see things differently and I don't think there is anything wrong with expressing my view. You choose how my view makes you feel, I can't control that.

Nothing in life is a walk in the park and that's not really the point. The point is we work hard to achieve things in life, no matter what they are, the bigger picture is how the journey is interpreted.
If I have to sit and listen to people's stories, why can't I share my positive thinking story? What's wrong with providing a different side of all of this? It's not meant to be better or worse, it's just meant to be different.
 
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janiecakes

TRIBE Member
Your view doesn't make me feel anything personally - that's not my point. I am very happy with my birth although it wasn't easy. I think the way people overwhelm pregnant women with horror stories is really shitty, but my point is that the whole pain-is-caused-by-fear thing is the other side of that same coin and is just as pressuring.

I felt a lot of things during labour - anticipation, fatigue, nausea, spaciness, boredom, supported, thirst, like I was on a different plane, etc. - fear was not remotely present yet I still felt pain. And that's fine, because pain is not the enemy during labour.
 

Jennika

TRIBE Member
Your view doesn't make me feel anything personally - that's not my point. I am very happy with my birth although it wasn't easy. I think the way people overwhelm pregnant women with horror stories is really shitty, but my point is that the whole pain-is-caused-by-fear thing is the other side of that same coin and is just as pressuring.

I felt a lot of things during labour - anticipation, fatigue, nausea, spaciness, boredom, supported, thirst, like I was on a different plane, etc. - fear was not remotely present yet I still felt pain. And that's fine, because pain is not the enemy during labour.

agreed. with both labours (one in a hospital with an epidural, one at home without a lick of meds- neither with any major complications) I did yoga and read the books but also heard all the horror stories and went into it confident but nervous at the same time. i feel like the horror stories prepared me to not be too idealistic about the experience, but the positive preparation gave me some confidence.

with both deliveries as soon as the major pain hit all my yoga/meditation thoughts went out the window. with my first even though I was adamant against the epidural I took it the moment it was offered. I thought I'd be so "strong" but I could no handle the pain at all.

With my home birth I was complaining, grumpy, stressed and crunched up refusing to move around. the bath that I expected would be my peaceful place made me nauseous, I didn't want to be touched, when pushing with Andrea I screamed and insisted on doing everything totally 'wrong" i.e.I was loud and didn't want to be anywhere but on the bed lying down on my back even though it's considered the least natural position. none of this came from a position of fear though.

I don't have any regrets and I removed a lot of the expectations I had on myself for how I should be. at the end of the day I think managing your own expectations is key, both positively and negatively.
 

Chris

Well-Known TRIBEr
I had this with Maya - I was measuring on average 5 weeks behind where I was supposed to. Turns out regular sized baby smashed into a small uterus. She was born 2 weeks early at 7lbs 10oz (or 13oz... I get them mixed up) - anyway - perfectly fine, no issues with labour or delivery.

I feel it took longer for her to start stretching out though LOL - I just assumed she'd be smushed in there for so long that she was used to being curled up.
Thanks sk8! Appreciate it, I'm sure its okay, ultrasound is today, he is moving all the time so, maybe just normal, and will be smaller?

Second pre-natal class was last night, last night was all about the different stages. I'm completely fascinated by the whole process. My lord, you ladies are superhuman.
 

i lix

TRIBE Member
You're not a crackhead - it's called placenta brain when your pregnant. :p
haha i thought i was the only one who said that! (though it hasn't been so bad this time - probably because i only have to remember things like "hey, it's lunchtime" and "gee, the kid is awfully quiet, i'd better go check what he's destroying".)

re: placentas - delayed cord clamping is probably the one non-standard practice in labour i feel most strongly about. thankfully, my current midwives are both from the u.k. where it is standard so i didn't have to even explain myself (i'm so, so much happier with this clinic in general), but regardless of how fast it comes out, i really think it is beneficial for the baby to at least wait until the cord stops pulsing.

one. week. left.
 

KillaLadY

TRIBE Member
Your view doesn't make me feel anything personally - that's not my point. I am very happy with my birth although it wasn't easy. I think the way people overwhelm pregnant women with horror stories is really shitty, but my point is that the whole pain-is-caused-by-fear thing is the other side of that same coin and is just as pressuring.

I felt a lot of things during labour - anticipation, fatigue, nausea, spaciness, boredom, supported, thirst, like I was on a different plane, etc. - fear was not remotely present yet I still felt pain. And that's fine, because pain is not the enemy during labour.
There are different levels of fear, not necessarily fear of pain, or labour. There are other emotionals fears that are not released and resurface during labour, which bring on the pain. There are many that can attest this "FTP" theory and it worked for them, and it really attracted me to want to apply that to my birth and life in general.

Anyhow, fair enough to what you said and not denying your experience or anyone else's experience for that matter, I just seek to have a different one, that's all. :)
 
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geminigirl

TRIBE Member
This idea makes me kind of nuts because it implies that women with difficult labours didn't "work through their fear." Hypnobirthing seems like a great idea to me and I am all for women feeling empowered to deal with labour, but I would rather they be empowered to deal with the fact that labour is not a walk in the park and can be really hard and amazing, not put down by some idea that if it hurts or sucks you're doing it wrong.
Totally agree..

I went into labor with total excitement, joy, anticipation, my own spiritual wisdom & positivity. I was completely open to anything and everything necessary to birth my baby. I did not believe in a birth plan since I know that birth has a mind of its own. With that thinking, I have NO regrets. I am so pleased with the way my birth unfolded. I wouldn't change a thing.

I didn't fear labor. I welcomed it. I couldn't wait to meet Presley. All the positive thinking in the world, does not take away the pain. I just don't believe that one can even remotely wrap their heads around what birth will feel like or be like until you have experienced it.
 

Liability

TRIBE Member
Just wanted to chime in on some thoughts wiht Hypnobirthing - from a male perspective.

I think it was a really great class. Regardless of how the actual birth went, it taught us about many of the alternatives and things to consider that we would not otherwise have been prepared for. When you enter the hospital, a lot of what you are told seems to be geared towards having an easy and safe (avoiding liability) birth. I don't think the hospital is at all geared towards making the birth a positive/bonding experience.

I do believe that it is possible to have a birth that is enlightening and difficult rather than purley painful and tramatic. I don't think hyponobirthing in any was dismisses or diminishes women who are unable to have a nautral birth or end up taking some form of pain relief.

My wife wanted to go the natural route. After 14 days and no sign from the little one, we caved and went with induction. After 36 hours of labour and little progression, we decided to go with the epidural after which a c-section became necessary. My wife was dissapointed but the teachings of our hypnobirthing class are more about understanding options and what is possible and then dealing, in an informed manner, with what actally comes.

The class is great although you have to suspend your disbelief and commit to the excercises to gain. Even then, as our case demonstrates, things do not always go as planned.
 

Liability

TRIBE Member
Just wanted to chime in on some thoughts wiht Hypnobirthing - from a male perspective.

I think it was a really great class. Regardless of how the actual birth went, it taught us about many of the alternatives and things to consider that we would not otherwise have been prepared for. When you enter the hospital, a lot of what you are told seems to be geared towards having an easy and safe (avoiding liability) birth. I don't think the hospital is at all geared towards making the birth a positive/bonding experience.

I do believe that it is possible to have a birth that is enlightening and difficult rather than purley painful and tramatic. I don't think hyponobirthing in any was dismisses or diminishes women who are unable to have a nautral birth or end up taking some form of pain relief.

My wife wanted to go the natural route. After 14 days and no sign from the little one, we caved and went with induction. After 36 hours of labour and little progression, we decided to go with the epidural after which a c-section became necessary. My wife was dissapointed but the teachings of our hypnobirthing class are more about understanding options and what is possible and then dealing, in an informed manner, with what actally comes.

The class is great although you have to suspend your disbelief and commit to the excercises to gain. Even then, as our case demonstrates, things do not always go as planned.
Just a little bit extra - A lot of what the class speaks to, about how far we have come from the natural birthing process, makes a lot of sense. We have a lot of stereotypes and images of labour bombarded at us societally, which are not positive.

It is true that from a pure instinctual/biological basis that fear and a sense of threat does cause the body to go into a flight reaction and causes many systems to 'tense' which is counterproductive to birthing a child.

I think this is backed up by the statistics of c-sections within NOrth America even compared to other developed countries where homebirth and a more natural birthing process is encouraged.
 

mcbee

TRIBE Member
Even then, as our case demonstrates, things do not always go as planned.
THIS!

I was excited, positive and thrilled at the opportunity to go through labour with Kevin and meet Brooklyn at the end. I had midwives I loved and trusted, doulas I loved and trusted, a husband I loved and trusted, and healthy pregnancy with no complications, i had done lots of research and reading on normal, unmedicated births....I was ready, prepared and excited to bring my baby into the world without fear and in a loving, natural way and was entirely convinced I could do it.


BUT my damn body had other plans for me. My damn placenta wouldn't move...despite a SHIT TON of positive thinking, positive visualization, meditation, multiple acupuncture sessions and hypnotherapy and as a result, I had to have a csection. And the end of the day, Brooklyn had her own plan for her birth and I had to work with what she gave me. And in hindsight, all my prep (and my unrealistic expectations that I could control how my labour would go) lead me to feel like a complete and utter failure. I felt I failed by not being able to birth my baby in the way I had visualized. I felt like I didn't belong to the club of moms because I didn't labour or push. Having a more balanced view of labour (a birth wish list as opposed to a birth plan) and being okay with however it went, would have helped me IMMENSELY! This a big focus for me to reframe my expectations if/when I have another kid.

:)sarah
 

KillaLadY

TRIBE Member
I think this is backed up by the statistics of c-sections within North America even compared to other developed countries where homebirth and a more natural birthing process is encouraged.
Right and this is what I can't wrap my head around it. I come with a totally view of birth/labour, whether it early, on time, or late. I come from a world where labouring for 34 hours or being 15+ days late IS normal. I have witnessed births where the woman is as calm as the lake in the morning, I come from a world where women delivered babies on hallways of my building while soldiers were shooting at one another, where breach babies are delivered vaginally with no medical intervention and where placenta can be delivered 2-3 days later.

THIS is MY normal and there is nothing wrong with it.

And being/living here makes me feel like the "black sheep" at times, like there is something wrong with thinking that labour/birth isn't painful, that refusing medical assistance is irresponsible and not wanting any medical intervention is unheard of.

I am not irresponsible, I just have a different life experience, and it has worked for me.
 
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Liability

TRIBE Member
Right and this is what I can't wrap my head around it. I come with a totally view of birth/labour, whether it early, on time, or late. I come from a world where labouring for 34 hours or being 15+ days late IS normal.
I really hear you on this one. Given that the 'due date' is just a guidline, we were pressured to induce from 6 days late and on. At 10 days late, the pressure increased as this is the saftey zone designated by our medical practitioners. By 14 days we were basically told that we had already entered into 'crazy' territory. This is all with the knowledge that even at 14 days late nothing was wrong wiht the little one and there was little sign of Placental (sp?) degradation.

The pressure becomes increasingly hard ot resist and you know if something goes wrong you will have that lingering doubt in the back of your mind. All through the hospital experience we heard statements like 'oh, well you hsouldn't have waited that long to get induced'.
 

rubytuesday

TRIBE Member
It sounds like hypnobirthing has some good stuff in it, I think relaxation techniques are great, but I'm just trying to say that feeling pain during labour is not a personal failure, and that the idea that you can control how much pain you're going to feel can be detrimental, but I guess if you've successfully hyponotized yourself it wouldn't be an issue. You can do all of the relaxation techniques in the world, but if your baby is breech, or has a problem, or if you aren't in good shape to give birth (yes birth is natural but most of us today sit all day and aren't walking and squatting as much as we used to), you might not have an easy or by the book labour and delivery, you might feel a lot of pain, and a natural labour and delivery might not be feasible and it's not necessarily because the woman wasn't doing something right.

I do better with "prepare for the worst, hope for the best"; for me knowing labour could hurt more than I expected was helpful because when I felt the first strong contractions I was able to tell myself "this is expected and ok" and not get freaked out that it wasn't like what I anticipated. I know a lot of stories people hear can sound like you're being set up to fail but for me hearing "it can hurt a lot, a lot more than you expect, but you can handle it" was empowering. And even the 'bad' stories women share (probably because they also need to feel heard and want to share their stories, not out of any ill will), show that it ends up alright in the end, so it's a matter of perspective.
 

KillaLadY

TRIBE Member
Yeah, I understand. My midwife also stated the "14-days" rule. 40 weeks is truly is just an estimate based on last first day of menstrual cycle, not even from the time of conception (which could be like 3-4 weeks after the cycle anyways) it's not a set date and doctors really need to understand you can't force nature to happen on their schedule.

Vaginal exams are useless, you can be dilated and not effaced. If the baby is not in distress, if there are no signs of stalling, there is absolutely NO need for this.

Luckily, my midwife is in complete agreement with me as to not being induced and allowing nature to progress. She told me she is required to let me know of this, but ultimately is my choice and my choice is, if there is no distress, no stalling and pregnancy is still going as normal, I am not being induced.
 

mcbee

TRIBE Member
I think by 14 days overdue, I would have killed someone to get my baby out of me!! I loved loved loved being pregnant and had a very straighforward easy pregancy, but I was ready to be done at the end. And Brooklyn was born 10 days early! I think I would have lost my mind if she had been late, and 14 days at that! I'm against induction when it doesn't make sense, but probably would be begging for it being that overdue lol!!

:)sarah
 
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