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The Middle East

Klubmasta Will

TRIBE Member
i am a bit confused as to why there is no discussion whatsoever on this board regarding the current situation in the middle east. these topics are being discussed to death on every other message forum that i visit - including a uk-based party message board and a u.s.- based movie message board.

similarly, i think most of the other toronto party boards are steering clear of this topic as well.

is this because:

1. we don't care?

2. we are ignorant of the issues involved?

3. we do not want to start up such an explosive and sensitive discussion?

i know that we all have our own reasons. personally, i am a little bit of number 2 and a little bit of number 3. i try to keep myself educated on world issues of this magnitude but it is difficult to find objective sources of information.

the LAST thing i would ever do is take a position without knowing all the arguments on all sides. propoganda and other bullshit aside, i have NO IDEA which side i would want canada to support if push comes to shove. (and just sitting back and trying to keep the peace may not be possible ... especially if the u.s. joins the fray and suicide attacks start happening in our own backyard.)

is peace even POSSIBLE at this point given the history and the parties involved?

obviously there will be strong viewpoints on all sides here so let's TRY to keep things respectful.

peace (in the middle east).
 
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Illogistix

TRIBE Member
No.

We are smart enough to realize that nothing we can say and yell or scream at each other about this hopeless situation - will do any good. Its a nightmare of "Biblical" ... or "Torahian" or "Koranian" proportions.....
 

Klubmasta Will

TRIBE Member
^^^ obviously we know that no amount of discussion on a message board will have any real impact on the issue. but that never stopped these debates/discussions before.

i'm interested because i'm hoping to find some useful sources of objective information.
 

Rosey

TRIBE Member
i think it hasn't come up lately because it's been done to death. we all know it's a bad situation and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. but while it isn't being discussed here at this second, there has been a half dozen long, involved serious threads on it in the past month or so.

and they all go the same way, persons A, B, & C, decry the inhumanity and evil of the suicide bombers and laud Israel's commitment to defense. persons X, Y, & Z, decry the Israeli incurision into the camps, and laud the fight for freedom of the Palestinian people. M, N, & O try to be moderate and are ignored or mocked. zero progress is made, nobody is convinced of anything, people go on hating and killing because of religion.

what's the point?
 
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BigBadBaldy

TRIBE Member
I for one am generally ignorant of the finer points involved in most geo-political discussions and tend to stay out of them, rather than contribute an uninformed opinion.

BBB.

"So I take everything slow, go with the flow, shut my motherfucking mouth when I don't know.."
~Ice Cube "Dead Homies"
 

Illogistix

TRIBE Member
No doubt Will.

I am just admitting that these types of discussions over very heated topics (and I do believe there are some Arabs and Israelis on this board) will have the same effect of a classic Pronstar powder keg special....
 

OTIS

TRIBE Member
We had a thread on suicide bombings a while back.

Although I think this is a good discussion topic, ultimately this thread will be full of moot points and senseless arguing. I don't think anyone on this board is really qualified to give accurate opinions as anyone here hasn't experienced what's going on over there first hand. If there is anyone here who can give an accurate account or synopsis of what's going on, I'd love to hear what the deal is without being interpereted through bias newsmedia sources.
 

Jazz

TRIBE Member
I started a Mid-East thread a week or 2 ago, when the US changed their stance on the creation of an independant Palestinian state but it died relatively quickly... It seems like most people don't want to wade into debate on this issue because they don't know which side to take... even Canada & the US are now changing their stance from pro-Israel to a more neutral position... There is no clear cut answer as to who's right/wrong in this situation IMHO, both sides are guilty of many things...

I think that the only hope for peace is for the creation of an independant Palestinian state, but the situation has now deteriorated to the point where that may not even be possible... and the question still remains as to whether Israel will even except the idea, but now that the US is behind it they may have no choice...
 
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alexd

Administrator
Staff member
I think one of the main features of the scene and the board itself is to avoid such stuff - a mental health holiday from it.
 

Klubmasta Will

TRIBE Member
i realize these issues have been discussed before but things are heating up now like never before. (or am i wrong in this assessment?)

let's see: president bush and prime minister chretian are basically ordering israel to withdraw from palestinian areas (a much stronger position than either has ever taken), palestinian gunmen are holed up in the church of the nativity, yasser arafat has been trapped in his compound without food or electricity for a week, iraq has stopped exports of crude oil, many speculate that the u.s. may attack iraq very soon, suicide bombings are happening every day and some feel it is INEVITABLE that they will start up in north america ...

when i read the news, i feel like the world is about to end and i'm the only one who has no idea why. then i find out that many others are in the same boat and i start to wonder ... how can so many of us be content to remain ignorant of such important events?

we jump all over the fact that some homosexual kid can't bring his date to the prom and that some poor lady was mauled to death by a dog and that some guy that looks like pete sampras is picking a wife on a tv show ... howcum so many of us (myself included) are not equally interested in what is obviously a much more important topic?
 
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Subsonic Chronic

TRIBE Member
The reason that there isn't a thread up already is because innevitabley, it turns into a racial/semetic/anti-semetic argument.

Too many people (not necessarily people on the board) are too quick to play the anti-semetic card on anyone who denounces Israeli policies.

As for the Palestinian suicide bombers? I don't condone their actions, that goes pretty much without saying, but what burns me is this double standard where Israel has carte blanche from the U.S. to do whatever the hell they want.

Israel is conducting it's brand of state terrorism with U.S.-supplied weapons, and the campaign is financed with U.S. money, yet Bush fails to make any meaningful attempt to stop it. I guess it's not "terrorism" when a group of armed men breaks down the wall to your house, beats up your family, destroys your home, takes all the men away blindfolded and shackled to be questionned, possibly tortured, then breaks down the next wall to give the same treatment to the family living next door.
Oh no, that's "self defense". It's "self defense" when soldiers kill anyone that they see in the streets, even if they are women or children just going to get some food and water that they've been deprived of for days.

All that this does is breed more hate, more terror, and more martyrs who think that they're advancing the cause by blowing themselves up along with a dozen innocent civilians.

True, the Israelis are living in something of a state of fear when they cannot feel safe at a cafe, a discotech, even at a religious dinner. But they are not at risk of getting shot and killed for simply opening the door. They are not being taken away en mass for "questionning", being denied food and water for fear of execution by soldiers. They are not having their homes and their livelihoods systematically destroyed.

And the scariest part of this whole mess is the similarities between some of the Israeli's army's actions, and the actions of the Third Reich during WWII. Has nothing been learned from the holocaust?

I guess in the end it all comes down to Sharon and Arafat. Sharon would just as soon see the entire Palestinian state wiped out. He's a war criminal who should be terated as such, he should not have the power that he does commanding an army. Arafat is content doing very little except praying for his martyrdom, hoping that someone will off him since it's the only chance he'll ever get at fame.

The people that should be doing more about this, the U.S., are so obviously biased that there is no way that they are ever going to push a solution that equally benefits both sides in the conflict. Until either the EU or the UN takes a harder stance, I fear that this conflict will just continue the way that it has, with each side retaliating against the other's attacks.

Pete
 

gRoOviegurl

TRIBE Member
I'm sick of the topic frankly...........

Nothing will ever change in that godforsaken country filled with madmen........
 

BigBadBaldy

TRIBE Member
Perhaps it's the emotional and intellectual commitment required to feel "involved" in something that is impacting the whole of the "first" world, yet still feels like a foreign issue to most. I think a lot of people shy away from this kind of thing because they think "what does this have to do with me, with my life?". While that is a short-sighted way to look at it, it's really hard to overcome the inertia of apathy. I know it sounds like a cop-out. It is.

BBB.

Until it hits home in some way, then it's too late.
 
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tommysmalls

TRIBE Member
i'd love to talk more about this topic - its as much captivating as it is revolting, disgusting and appaling....its totally devasting and mind-boggling!!

but pete's right, this topic has been hashed over and over again, and everyone's pretty much said their peace - not much will change to those that believe who is the oppressor or the oppressed.
 

Klubmasta Will

TRIBE Member
pete

nice reply. it's obvious that you don't agree with current u.s. policies. but it begs the question:

what do you think the u.s. and canada should be doing about the whole situation? (i.e. what can north america do that will protect the interests of north americans and help promote a peaceful resolution?)

is there ANY practical, workable course of action that the u.s. and canada could take?
 

Illogistix

TRIBE Member
Chronic:

Do you read Harper's?

Whenever I read one of your posts - it reminds me of something that I read in that thought provoking mag?

If no - definitely check it out....
 
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