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The Maidan - Ukraine Unrest

acheron

TRIBE Member
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I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral | Thought Catalog

Thoughts on the current situation in Ukraine? Kviv is burning, people are dying and the situation seems like a royal catch-22. It's way beyond the European Union vs. Russia economic ties argument, now it's about the leadership and there's a whole lot of propaganda coming from both sides.

I visited Kiev in 1985 with my family as part of a tour of Russia. It was a beautiful city then and it's still beautiful, even more so, now. This dispute has the potential to balkanize Ukraine (Crimea wants to stay with Russia) and there's no light on the horizon yet.
 

djfear

TRIBE Member
It's too bad so many people had to die during the protests, and the freakin' police station was ransacked?!

Glad they just signed a peace deal for a joint government + elections by December 2014. Hopefully things will calm down now.
 
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octo

TRIBE Member
this post is from a uke i know. after his undergrad he spent time studying in europe.

Anatomy of the Revolution - Part I - The Stage is Set
February 22, 2014 at 2:28pm
** My take and reflections on the events of the last three months in Ukraine. I will post them as I write them over the next few days and weeks **


93 days - that’s how long it took from the first protest to the first day when intellectuals, students, children, pensioners and everyone else in the country could take off their helmets without the fear of being shot. It was an incredibly long journey for the country, with many twists and turns and this account is written from the perspective of an observer and is meant to be taken as such.

This revolution started, as such movements today do, with a tweet, inviting anyone who cares to come down to the Independence Monument in central Kiev. The Prime Minister Azarov – now enjoying semi-retirement in Austria – had just announced that Ukraine will not sign an association agreement with the European Union after all. Apparently, liberalizing trade, releasing Yulia Timoshenko, and passing a range of reforms, was simply too costly. Such analysis may have been quite accurate, for after 23 years of stagnation, Ukrainian businesses were indeed not ready for competition from the West; without the leadership of Yulia Timoshenko, the opposition proved its ineptitude, time and time again; and reforms designed to fight the rampant corruption would have hurt the very politicians urged to pass these measures. Talk about conflict of interest. But, it is the wealthy ‘West’ that can inundate themselves with such trivialities, in Ukraine it was business as usual. Yanukovich was more concerned with his reelection prospects in 2015 and he chose to stake his future on closer relationship with Russia, rather than cooperate with the more demanding West. People be dammed.

Business as usual was how the protests in late November could be described as well. Students, hoping, nay, yearning for the ever illusive, ‘better future’ answered the tweet. Some came out in Kiev, most in Lviv. They spoke from makeshift stages; they demanded the agreement to be signed at the upcoming Vilnus summit; they vented their anger and frustration; they slept outside, but, deep down they knew. They knew what country they live in. They knew that this decision was irreversible and they were in shock, at that moment they knew that they would have to go back to their universities, toil, pay bribes, use their connections to get hired and survive. They knew that they are but a toy, a kitten to be played with by those ruling from the skies. And so, inspired by an ounce of agency, for 8 or 9 days, they did their best to keep the protests going. Unlike 2004, these were not political protests. The students tried their best to keep politics, political parties and politicians out. Opposition, or the government, it was two sides of the same, incredibly rusty coin. However, political opposition, fueled by political opportunism, familiar political technologies, and the inherent mission to protest, set up their own parallel demonstrations. And over time, merged and later took over the organizational functions.

If protests ever have an end, it is because inertia ends, good will dissipates, internal defeatist attitude creeps in and the self-destructive demotivation and futility of one’s actions is realized. That moment came on November 29 and especially on November 30. The numbers dwindled, the agreement with the EU was not signed after all, and those protesting realized that, rather than being ignored yet again by the government, they should go back to something more useful, like studying for their finals, getting ready for the 2015 presidential elections, or simply commencing their Christmas shopping. And who can blame them, yet again. It was all for naught.
 
Yanukovych is lucky he's still alive. Romania may have been nearly a quarter century ago, but most of the Eastern Bloc haven't forgotten.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Ceaușescu

He could have wound up like Ceaucescu.

Mind you, this likely isn't over. He's going to have to answer for the deaths that he ordered, and judging by his current attitude, he might learn the hard way.
 
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mute79

TRIBE Member
I keep reading that Ukranians revolted against the regime, but every now and again I read some bits of information that the "protesters" that clashed with police were really far-right extremists who came out of the woodwork and exploited the situation. Apparently they ransacked a military arms/ammo dump and armed themselves with snipers! I don't hear any sorrow for the young police officers that died during this mayhem. I feel for them.

I would like to think that the average Ukranian was standing up against the regime, but I don't get the sense that that is the case. Aside from Kiev, there were no reports of any demonstrations in any other city. Doesn't that seem strange? If Ukranians protesters were united, I would expect the police and military to side with them, as was the case in many other recent revolutions.

Thoughts?
 

acheron

TRIBE Member
I think you'll find opportunists in every protest or conflict. Sadists and psychopaths who use the cover of chaos to satisfy their need for violent expression.

I was listening to an interview a while back, could have been on NPR or the CBC, with a former soldier who was very open about how front line military types have a very high percentage of men who joined the army so they could kill people without being punished for it. Even worse the "private security forces" who moved into Iraq and Afghanistan who work on the periphery of the conflict but who take advantage of the opportunity for violence without retribution, with even less oversight than the military.
 

Bass-Invader

TRIBE Member
I keep reading that Ukranians revolted against the regime, but every now and again I read some bits of information that the "protesters" that clashed with police were really far-right extremists who came out of the woodwork and exploited the situation. Apparently they ransacked a military arms/ammo dump and armed themselves with snipers! I don't hear any sorrow for the young police officers that died during this mayhem. I feel for them.

I would like to think that the average Ukranian was standing up against the regime, but I don't get the sense that that is the case. Aside from Kiev, there were no reports of any demonstrations in any other city. Doesn't that seem strange? If Ukranians protesters were united, I would expect the police and military to side with them, as was the case in many other recent revolutions.

Thoughts?

first thought is to spend 15s to google "ukraine protests outside of kiev" and find out that indeed, your second pargraph is wrong. Sorry to be a bit pedantic but why not spend a quarter minute to check that first instead of just making an assumption, and then posting a conclusion based on that unchecked assumption?

Ukraine edges closer to all-out civil disorder as protests spread from Kiev | World news | The Guardian
 

ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
there are Russian flags now atop parliamentary building in Kiev.
The ousted President is now in Moscow, protected by Putin.
Russian forces are now on the border of Ukraine...training exercises, yeah sure.

Ukraine government now wants Russia to back off.
Ukraine people want zero to do with Russia.

this is going to get really fucking ugly ( no alibi ) if Russia doesn't chill the fuck out. Ukraine people will fight to the death to protect their independence, and Russia's poking them with a very sharp stick.
 

ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
Ousted Ukraine President Yanukovych, son investigated for money laundering by Swiss.
:mad:

Ukraine says Russian forces blocking Sevastopol airport.
'I can only describe this as a military invasion and occupation' — Interior minister
 
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kyfe

TRIBE Member
what a shame, those people have their independence and they deserve to keep it, Russia is nothing more than an opressive nation that wants the Ukraine so they can transport oil through it along with other reasons
 

ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
these anonymous armed forces ( no patches, no identification ) are also blocking Ukraine water ports.
 

mute79

TRIBE Member
first thought is to spend 15s to google "ukraine protests outside of kiev" and find out that indeed, your second pargraph is wrong. Sorry to be a bit pedantic but why not spend a quarter minute to check that first instead of just making an assumption, and then posting a conclusion based on that unchecked assumption?

Ukraine edges closer to all-out civil disorder as protests spread from Kiev | World news | The Guardian

because it's one thing to care enough to want to research and it's another to base opinions on what is served to me in the media. my point was that I keep reading about one set of news, and you googling the topic confirms what I was referring to, in that there is more to the story then what is being reported as Ukranians protesting against Yanukovich. If the western media chooses to not present the entire news stack, then that in and of itself is propaganda.

my point is that there is more to this story then Ukranians standing up to join the EU, which is only an acceptable reasoning if you're gullible
 

MrMarcus

TRIBE Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=861DJLR4Cek

“After three visits to Ukraine in five weeks, Victoria Nuland explains that in the past two decades, the United States has spent five Billion dollars ($5,000,000,000) to subvert Ukraine, and assures her listeners that there are prominent businessmen and government officials who support the US project to tear Ukraine away from its historic relationship with Russia and into the US sphere of interest (via “Europe”).

Victoria Nuland is the wife of Robert Kagan, leader of the younger generation of “neo-cons”. After serving as Hillary Clinton’s spokesperson, she is now undersecretary of state for Europe and Eurasia.”
 

ndrwrld

TRIBE Member
"Fuck the E.U."
Victoria Nuland.

She also took serious heat for her involvement for the coverup in Benghazi.
 
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Bass-Invader

TRIBE Member
because it's one thing to care enough to want to research and it's another to base opinions on what is served to me in the media. my point was that I keep reading about one set of news, and you googling the topic confirms what I was referring to, in that there is more to the story then what is being reported as Ukranians protesting against Yanukovich. If the western media chooses to not present the entire news stack, then that in and of itself is propaganda.

my point is that there is more to this story then Ukranians standing up to join the EU, which is only an acceptable reasoning if you're gullible

Don't blame what the media 'serves you', the link I posted is from that media. You evidently care enough to post an opinion, if you don't care enough to do any research whatsoever then you're being lazy.

you referred to something pretty specific "I don't get the sense that that is the case. Aside from Kiev, there were no reports of any demonstrations in any other city. Doesn't that seem strange? If Ukranians protesters were united, I would expect th..." And it is factually wrong, and easy to correct.
 

2canplay

TRIBE Member
At the end of the day, Russia holds all the cards here I think. Remember that big problem they had a few years ago when gazprom stopped shipping their gas through Ukraine (what was it again, the Ukraine wanted more money to have the gas flow through their country or something like that.).....all I remember was how France and Germany were squeeling as they have zero gas in storage and Russia supplies them the majority of their natural gas. Less than a week it was resolved.
 

Jeffsus

TRIBE Member
Was it a Corey Hart song? "shoot komrade Kiev"?

I've been following the uprising there closely. Nothing I can do about it.

But the way Putin and his henchman Medvelelelev react, shows serious tendensious of cold war.

I think it's time for Putin to move on.

-jM
A&D
*please mark this moment for incidents of Polonium
 
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