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The eternal MMA thread

defazman

TRIBE Member
Is Rousey really that good, or has women's mma not evolved yet to the point where armbars are easily defended? You used to see that sub all the time in early ufc/pride, but you'd have to go back almost three months to find an armbar victory in the ufc, and it was the first fight on the prelims.
 

Juan Love

TRIBE Member
Is Rousey really that good, or has women's mma not evolved yet to the point where armbars are easily defended?
Interesting question...

I do think that "Rainbow Dash" Rousey is a bit of a my little one trick pony. Problem for the rest of the competition is that her one trick is really effin' amaze-balls!

One of favorite masters always used to tell us that a person can learn all the "advanced" techniques they want...to but a skilled player knows that it is about applying experience and "tradecraft" to simple techniques that is the mark of a great martial artist and the true reflection of harmony between the Mind, Body, Spirit...he would then easily dispatch his most advanced students with the most ingenious variations of the most basic techniques.

I think that similarly, Rousey's mental focus is top tier and she has what some call excellent "fingerspitzengefühl" . The insane series of adjustments she had to make on the fly to make it all look so damn easy may not be evident to most...but there was a hella lot going down.

Take for example her footwork in the clinch before the sweep and takedown; so cache-money. She switched stance for the hip throw, wasn't feeling it and then like lightning was back in front for the sweep to full mount followed in seconds by a fluid armbar transition.

What no one can take away from Sarah Kaufman is her work ethic. She came prepared and really wasn't doing too bad a job defending either...it's just that she found herself in Rousey's world and dealing with someone that is able to feel, orient, make adjustments and attack at speeds much faster than Sarah could in that situation and under stress. With that kind of high level play...you're not seeing the best armbar in women's MMA...it's the best armbar in the sport. So, I don't think it's as simple as saying that the division is lacking..."Rainbow Dash" Rousey is the truth.

Some other general observations on the night...Kenzie and Tate was a great fight, best of the night! Can't wait to see what Meisha looks like now with that mouse on her face after that stiff roundhouse kick from the game veteran in Kenzie. Winklejohn is the Phil Jackson of striking coaches.

However, what the shit was with that Adlan Amagov side kick to the knee on Keith Berry? Same thing Jon Jones used to blow out Rampage's knee...and I suspect a strategy that uber-heel manager Greg "The Brain" Jackson was whispering it into his ear during one of their pre-fight NLP/meditation sessions.

Listen, I know we have come a long way from traditional martial arts and wrasslin'...but are we that far "evolved" from the unspoken code of honor among gentleman fighters? I mean, I've always had issues with their "winning strategy" over "all out war" philosophy for years...but, a blow like that can end a young fighter's career...how you wanna jeopardize a person's ability to provide for themselves and their people just to cut a corner for the win?

Just another example of some seriously questionable fight and personal ethics coming out of the culture at that camp over the last little while...but as Jones once said, they do it all for the kids. :rolleyes:
 

KodiaK

TRIBE Member
Is Rousey really that good, or has women's mma not evolved yet to the point where armbars are easily defended? You used to see that sub all the time in early ufc/pride, but you'd have to go back almost three months to find an armbar victory in the ufc, and it was the first fight on the prelims.
Rousey is really that good at armbars. This is due to her judo background, and the fact that in judo you get mere SECONDS to work the ground game in international judo.

She's that good, and that fucking fast at securing armbars. It literally comes down to her olympic level judo background.

She is literally one of a kind in women's MMA when it comes to being an "arm collector"

Women's MMA is evolving. It's been slow, but it's getting there. With gina, tate, kedzie, and even man cyborg and now ronda.... Give it a few more years and you'll see a much more even level ground of women's MMA fighters rising through the ranks.

But as for right now.... Ronda is the shit. She's soooo fucking good at securing 1 move ,that even other very competent ground game women's mma fighters just simply can't compete with.

hespect for the honda housey arm collector.
 

KodiaK

TRIBE Member
Interesting question...

I do think that "Rainbow Dash" Rousey is a bit of a my little one trick pony. Problem for the rest of the competition is that her one trick is really effin' amaze-balls!

One of favorite masters always used to tell us that a person can learn all the "advanced" techniques they want...to but a skilled player knows that it is about applying experience and "tradecraft" to simple techniques that is the mark of a great martial artist and the true reflection of harmony between the Mind, Body, Spirit...he would then easily dispatch his most advanced students with the most ingenious variations of the most basic techniques.

I think that similarly, Rousey's mental focus is top tier and she has what some call excellent "fingerspitzengefühl" . The insane series of adjustments she had to make on the fly to make it all look so damn easy may not be evident to most...but there was a hella lot going down.

Take for example her footwork in the clinch before the sweep and takedown; so cache-money. She switched stance for the hip throw, wasn't feeling it and then like lightning was back in front for the sweep to full mount followed in seconds by a fluid armbar transition.
It's her judo.

That takedown was a sweep based upon the cage. Was a pretty sweet modified takedown since she had the underhook on sara's right arm to provide leverage. You could see that she was trying to pop the hips for the throw, but the cage got in the way. So she leaned in, swept the forward leg (Sara's left leg) and then INSTANT MOUNT. The fight was over from there...

this is some high level shit... again, see my previous post: judo. Massive massive massive advantage in this current state of women's MMA.

anyways... love the gracie breakdown, plus also eddie bravo bonus breakdown:

gracie breakdown: skip the first few minutes, unless you like to see guys in the shower (i do)

eddie bravo's breakdown (with his own silly names for moves, i enjoy them)

enjoy!
 
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LikeASweet

TRIBE Member
Rousey is that good, she's an olympic bronze judo competitor. She also trains with the Diaz Bros at Gracie JJ. Her striking has some holes in it for sure, but her grappling is on another planet compared to all the woman MMA fighters. Id take her over a juiceless Cyborg, she will take some damage but I think she would take her down and submit her eventually.
 

Rage

TRIBE Member
Seems like a lot of you are on the Rousey train? I understand as I'm a big fan of her's as well but juice or no juice, Cyborg will destroy her imo.

Can Rousey even take a punch? How's her chin? How has she fared against an elite WMMA Muay-Thai fighter?

I don't like the fact that Rousey fought in the Olympics at 154lbs, started her WMMA career at 145lbs, moved down to 135lbs cause she didn't want to face Cyborg but refuses to fight anywhere other than 135lbs now...not even a catchweight.
 

Juan Love

TRIBE Member
I'd also give the advantage to Cyborg...
Your point reminds me of an interview with Marloes Coenen:

What it is with Ronda, she's a great judo fighter but what I see with her is the same thing I had in the beginning of my career. I had so much fear in my body that I fought really aggressive and that's the same as with her. Everybody is all "Ohh" and "Ahh" about her and her techniques are really good but I see she's fighting with fear in her heart and she will probably not admit it and won't admit it to herself but I really see the panic.

What Ronda does, if I'm correct she has like 50k followers on Twitter and I don't even have 9000 so she has the attention. People want to know stuff about her, want to follow her and that alone will bring a lot of attention to the game. The same goes for Miesha. They have a lot of followers. I'm a different person. They really work with the sexuality and it's not my thing.

I know I'm a fighter because the first time I fought Cyborg I didn't give up. The referee stopped it and I really wanted to continue and Cyborg said I was the one that hit the hardest out of all of the girls. Ronda, she dropped and volunteered to go down to 135 because she didn't want to face Cyborg and that says something about your mentality.
In the immortal words of the warrior poet Nick Diaz,

"Don't be scared homie..."

It should be said that Rousey is a workhorse, she has the discipline and acumen to develop into a much more well-rounded fighter in a relatively short amount of time...but, that will take a while and not before they clash and Cyborg lays down some serious butthurt.

Also, now that "girl on girl action" is the talk of the town...it should be interesting to see if Invicta's top-ranks either get decimated by the UFC moving forward with building a women's division or if the firm just goes ahead and buys the whole Invicta enchilada outright.

Anyways, all this talk of Olympians and cat-fights reminds me of this lovely little dust up from Invicta...Olympic Silver Medalist Sara McMann vs. Catch-As-Catch-Can Buzzsaw Shayna Baszler.

[YOUTUBE]ua3yyQr-2ys[/YOUTUBE]
 

KodiaK

TRIBE Member
Seems like a lot of you are on the Rousey train? I understand as I'm a big fan of her's as well but juice or no juice, Cyborg will destroy her imo.

Can Rousey even take a punch? How's her chin? How has she fared against an elite WMMA Muay-Thai fighter?

I don't like the fact that Rousey fought in the Olympics at 154lbs, started her WMMA career at 145lbs, moved down to 135lbs cause she didn't want to face Cyborg but refuses to fight anywhere other than 135lbs now...not even a catchweight.
meh, if/when they do fight, if gina could get cyborg in full mount. What makes you think ronda can't take her down?

the difference between gina and ronada is that ronda isn't going to stand up and let cyborg get back to her feet like what gina did.
 
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Rage

TRIBE Member
Sara McMann is 100% for real...Silver medalist right? (I should just Google).

I read an interview where she said she wants to take the exact opposite road in WMMA than Rousey. Wants to lay low, hon her skills and slowly make her ascension to a title shot.

My thought is Dana will wait a bit, wait till the next Invcita card, see how those numbers are, see what goes down when Cyborg is off suspension & maybe then make the call on adding WMMN into the UFC or just pull a WEC/SF & buy the entire company and absolve into the UFC full-time.

Imo, it's all about the $$$$'s. If Dana sees enough of a profit, he'll do it. I'd like to see a WMMA "SuperFight" on a UFC PPV.

Rhonda has 0 stand-up, all fights start there...it goes to the ground, Cyborg is a BJJBB, she's no Sarah Kaufman on the ground.
 

KillaLadY

TRIBE Member
Seems like a lot of you are on the Rousey train? I understand as I'm a big fan of her's as well but juice or no juice, Cyborg will destroy her imo.

Can Rousey even take a punch? How's her chin? How has she fared against an elite WMMA Muay-Thai fighter?

I don't like the fact that Rousey fought in the Olympics at 154lbs, started her WMMA career at 145lbs, moved down to 135lbs cause she didn't want to face Cyborg but refuses to fight anywhere other than 135lbs now...not even a catchweight.
Have you seen Cyborg fight pre-steroids? Trust me, Rousey will destroy her.
 
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DoubleDown

TRIBE Member
Hendo inury - UFC 151 cancelled

re: Hendo inury - UFC 151 cancelled.

While I don't think Sonnen DESERVES to just simply move down a weight class and face the champ right away... I do find this situation about Dana offering Sonnen to Jones on short notice and Jones turning it down a bit wrong. the UFC will lose a pile of money over the canceled event..people who have flown in from around the country are screwed.. and it COULD have still happened if Jones had accepted Sonnen on short notice. He should have just said yes... he would have more than likely won anyhow!

I must also say.. I find it funny that Dana even offered up Sonnen considering not 3 days ago during an interview Dana said that Chael doesn't deserve it yet.. and needs to win a few at light heavy before being considered...

panic back peddle much? hah
 

DoubleDown

TRIBE Member
Dana White Calls Jon Jones Turning Down Chael Sonnen Fight At UFC 151 A 'Disgusting And Selfish' Decision - Bloody Elbow

Today's UFC conference call to announce the cancellation of UFC 151 was a non-stop flurry of incredible quotes from UFC president Dana White. White was clearly angry and frustrated with the situation as a whole, but his anger was also very focused on Jon Jones and his trainer, Greg Jackson.

The story that Dana told was that, after Dan Henderson's knee injury forced him out of the bout, Lyoto Machida turned down a chance to challenge for the title but Chael Sonnen accepted and wanted to fly to Vegas that night. White said that the UFC PR department began work on commercials for Jones vs. Sonnen before being informed that Jones turned down the fight.

Dana made a point to explain to the media that, in his words, "Jon Jones said I'm not fighting Chael Sonnen on eight days' notice' ...a world champion turned down a fight, that's never happened." White then went on to direct much of the blame at Jones trainer, Greg Jackson, explaining that Jackson told Jon that it would be the "biggest mistake of his career" to take the fight. The UFC president then called Jackson a "fucking sport killer." Later in the call, White continued, saying that he didn't care what Jackson thought about anything and that "he should never be interviewed by anyone again except for a psychiatrist."



But Dana never strayed too far from blaming Jones for his role in turning down the fight. At one point calling it one of the most disgusting and selfish decisions he has ever seen.

White was also specifically asked if this would have any impact on the UFC's sponsorship of Jones, something that made news before his last fight and led to some questioning of the appropriateness of a promotion sponsoring a fighter. Dana said that he hates the UFC sponsorships to begin with but that it was a "good question" if the actions of Jon in turning down the Sonnen fight would impact their sponsorship. He also, at one point, said that the decision to turn down the fight would significantly impact his and the promotion's relationship with the light heavyweight champion.

Finally, White said that if Jones turns down the fight with Lyoto Machida at UFC 152 in Toronto, a fight which was announced on the call, that we'd be having another conference call later today and "it won't be good."

There are serious ramifications of all of this. Jones' decision cost the UFC a lot of money, he cost everyone on the undercard a paycheck, he made a decision that screwed the fans.

But, as upsetting as it is, he also made a decision that he has every right to make. He didn't want a new opponent on barely more than a week's notice, and he didn't want a guy that lost his last fight. While I'm personally disappointed in him and think that it was a bad move on his part, fighters have to have the right to make decisions that they feel are in their best interest.

But that doesn't mean that there won't be consequences.
__________________________________________________________________________


"White put the onus on Jackson, who he called “a sport killer, He added that Jackson “should never be interviewed by anybody ever again except by a physiciatrist.”

lol thats awesome.
 

Chris

Well-Known TRIBEr
Do you really think he screwed people over? I mean part of me thinks, who is going to protect the fighter in the case? I dont think Jackson's comment was out of line.
 

videotronic

TRIBE Member
also it could be a lot worse...you were going to a UFC fight...thats not happening...you're still in vegas

imagine if the show had been in like fucking milwaukee or some godforsaken place like that
 

Rage

TRIBE Member
Think about ALL the others fighters on the card that now, don't get a pay-day cause JBJ doesn't want to fight a MW.

PLUS, didn't JBJ JUST say that he didn't want to fight Machida again because it was his worse PPV draw? So then he turns down arguably his BIGGEST PPV draw?

This douche can't keep his lies straight.

If he was somewhat hatter before, well shit, it's OVER now!
 
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DoubleDown

TRIBE Member
Do you really think he screwed people over? I mean part of me thinks, who is going to protect the fighter in the case? I don't think Jackson's comment was out of line.
Protect Jones from what though? A Win?

Of course there are no guarantee's in sports.. even more so in MMA with the whole "Puncher's Chance" philosophy.

But com'on.. as a friend of mine just said.. They are both Team Quest Wrestlers, and it's Hendo who has the better deeper wrestling pedigree WITH heavier hands. Odds are.. it was an easier fight.. even if Chael has more gas in the tank than Dan does.

He's just trying to stick to his guns because he's been preaching the whole "Chael isn't worthy and isn't in line" all week long on twitter and interviews... which has been coming off as a bit 'holier than thou" if you ask me.

(I say that even though I still don't actually believe Chael Deserves it.... yet)

And yeah that whole Machida vs PPV numbers thing... The JBJ/Sonnen fight would have KILLED in PPV numbers... so if he actually is (as he just said yesterday) only fighting for the money and this is no longer sport to him, it's business.. he would have taken the fight...

As a previous poster stated, he cant keep his own lies straight..

(in my previous post I mistakenly said "Sonnen Moving Down a WC".. Think my fingers got ahead of my head... my bad.. meant up!)
 

dj_soo

TRIBE Member
personally think this is also a reflection of how thinly spread the UFC currently is with too many shows per year and also how little success the UFC has had in creating new stars not named Jon Jones in the last couple of years.

151 was essentially a one-fight show which is why it was cancelled when the ME fell through. If there was at least a co-main event worthy fight on the card, they probably could have gone on with the PPV, but the 2nd billed fight is Jake Ellenberger vs Jay Heiron; not exactly a PPV selling fight there...

UFC has a lot of talent but right now it seems to be a case of too many events and not enough bankable stars with most of the big draws being in the twilight of their careers...
 

videotronic

TRIBE Member
personally think this is also a reflection of how thinly spread the UFC currently is with too many shows per year and also how little success the UFC has had in creating new stars not named Jon Jones in the last couple of years.

151 was essentially a one-fight show which is why it was cancelled when the ME fell through. If there was at least a co-main event worthy fight on the card, they probably could have gone on with the PPV, but the 2nd billed fight is Jake Ellenberger vs Jay Heiron; not exactly a PPV selling fight there...

UFC has a lot of talent but right now it seems to be a case of too many events and not enough bankable stars with most of the big draws being in the twilight of their careers...
i have thought this for months now. im a fairly casual fan and, to be honest, i find myself giving less and less of a shit about UFC with each passing event over the last year or so. its just *always* there. seems like there is an event every 2 weeks, and many of them feature people i either don't know or know and don't care to watch.

obviously zuffa are doing something right (as their bank balance will no doubt attest to) but to me, again as a casual sometimes PPV buying fan, its just overkill.
 
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