• Hi Guest: Welcome to TRIBE, the online home of TRIBE MAGAZINE. If you'd like to post here, or reply to existing posts on TRIBE, you first have to register. Join us!

The economy of couples

Jeffsus

TRIBE Member
There was a time, say, 1950's, where the male figure earned the money and the female figure was a homemaker.

As globalization and other pressures increased, and other pressures relaxed, women became part of the workforce. Including inflation, this didn't do much for the income of the "family" unit.

Fast forward 65 years.

The entire economy is designed around a two income "unit", family or otherwise. Without two breadwinners, for most people on the spectrum, a home is certainly unaffordable.

Statistics Canada measures "income per household" but does not directly measure how many people, say a spouse and a spouse, are working to earn that income in a household.

Tax breaks about for families. You've got kids? Tax breaks. You've got a spouse who makes less than you -- we'll arrange that income so that you pay less tax.

As a slumlord millionaire I see this one a lot: Two loosely connected adults who both can't work for whatever reason but have three kids? Hey, the government has got you covered. Don't have time to look for a job? Don't worry. We'll direct deposit two separate rents to separate landlords.

So recently I've read the average household (ie. family) income in Ontario is about $73,700, which by default in most cases assumes two earners. Who are therefore entitled to sax sharing benefits.

So what about the single people like me out there. Am I expected to shack up with anyone just so that I can maintain a basic standard of living? There is absolutely no such thing as the "single male" tax break. Which means every tax break that is announced for, really, absolutely anyone, is a default tax increase on me. It's me that has to support your family, your families kid's going to school, and all the rest.

I think I should get a "no kids" tax break, because I am not burdening the school with educating anyone, nor any pediatric care centre to care for my kid if it gets sick. I think I am entitled to a "no spouse" tax break, given that the entire economy is based on the assumption that a pair-bond becomes a single tax entity.

Ok, in my particular case, I am playing devils advocate. I can afford this discrimination. But there are many single men and women out there, without children, who are unduly being forced to pay for couple's and children's benefit when we have no wish to.

-jM
A&D
 

Polymorph

TRIBE Member
It's been noted, repeatedly, that Harper is trying to recreate *Kanada* in his own image. And so, the tax breaks offered by income-spitting, etc? Totally Conservative.

They want Us to be like Them.

It's also been noted that Harper &co. has been repeatedly ignoring the root-causes of many (social/envirnomental/etc) problems. Because, y'know, Whitebread Entitled Ignorance is Bliss.

Not sure Trudeau nor Mulcair will pull through with any more *progessive* policies. That being said, can't be worse than Harper.

Fuck. Even China is more innovative than we are now.

etc
 

Polymorph

TRIBE Member
Also, to be noted, while Quebec does give tax breaks to single individuals living alone (autonomes), they also ramp up the tax breaks for Families with new children (because they want their species to breed, y'know).

*** it's pretty survivalist, actually. but still pretty dumb.
 

djfear

TRIBE Member
I'm a single male who owns his own place, but I don't care too much about it. Having kids is expensive as shit, and you don't really see those "75k for 2 people" households driving around nice cars either.

I hope that when I do decide to have kids that I get as many tax breaks as possible, and even if I don't end up having kids it'll be okay. Then again I'm an altruistic fuck who is doing alright.
 

octo

TRIBE Member
i hear ya jeffsus.

the system is designed for couples and families.

a friend of mine has recently been talking about finding someone to "buddy up" with. basically live together as single people but appear as a couple for tax purposes and to enjoy the increased standard of living of a dual income household.
 
tribe cannabis accessories silver grinders

Jeffsus

TRIBE Member
I'm a single male who owns his own place, but I don't care too much about it. Having kids is expensive as shit, and you don't really see those "75k for 2 people" households driving around nice cars either.
I agree. But putting children through school, elementary school, is expensive (for the taxpayer). But it's also a choice to have children. I have made a choice to not have children.

The contra-argument is that I live in a society where we all benefit from well educated children. So...

I'm not gonna push this too hard. Things like day care or "special" benefits, I know they're expensive, but that burden should be laid mostly on the pair-couples who've one way or another ended up in that situation (usually for the best). Not me.

-jM
A&D
 

Blysspluss

TRIBE Member
Why buy a home? It's not really an investment as SO many believe it is. I'll continue to rent and let my landlord deal with the cost of ownership. (And the correction in housing pricing that has already started here in S'toon and much of the west).

And on the spouse that makes less than you, that has its limits. My lady and I get no breaks whatsoever(even though that describes our situation). S'ok. The big C government needs votes. They are appealing to families and using our tax dollars to buy those votes. Hopefully this is a known thing and the big C group get the boot come next election.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
I agree. But putting children through school, elementary school, is expensive (for the taxpayer).
Only if you're looking at in-year outlays - but the long-term business case offers HUGE return to the taxes paid that support education. This is through all the innovation that will happen - and yes - future taxes paid as a result of kids going to school.

Its not a "loss" its an investment, one that pays back many-fold. As a single person without kids I'm happy to subsidize education and the children that go to school with my taxes - i get a lot back for it.
 
tribe cannabis goldsmith - gold cannabis accessories
tribe cannabis goldsmith - gold cannabis accessories

djfear

TRIBE Member
I think I should get a "no kids" tax break, because I am not burdening the school with educating anyone, nor any pediatric care centre to care for my kid if it gets sick. I think I am entitled to a "no spouse" tax break, given that the entire economy is based on the assumption that a pair-bond becomes a single tax entity.
You can look at this point from another perspective:

You burdened the school system with your own education.
You burdened the pediatric care centre when you were born.

In your 20s you're paying for kids that will be coming into your company when you're a middle manager in your 40s.

In your 40s you'll be paying for kids that will be contributing to your CPP or pension or subsidized apartment for seniors when you're in your 60s.

In your 60s your meager pension will be contributing to the babies in diapers who will end up getting Nursing degrees so they can change your diapers once you're 85 and up!

So... it doesn't matter if you have kids, you should still contribute and pay forward for all of those services that you've used and have yet to use.
 

erika

TRIBE Member
It's been noted, repeatedly, that Harper is trying to recreate *Kanada* in his own image. And so, the tax breaks offered by income-spitting, etc? Totally Conservative.

They want Us to be like Them.

It's also been noted that Harper &co. has been repeatedly ignoring the root-causes of many (social/envirnomental/etc) problems. Because, y'know, Whitebread Entitled Ignorance is Bliss.

Not sure Trudeau nor Mulcair will pull through with any more *progessive* policies. That being said, can't be worse than Harper.

Fuck. Even China is more innovative than we are now.

etc
It's this really. This government is Regressive Conservative, as shows in this policy, the cutbacks on science funding, the rahrah war propaganda, the mad extraction over all policies/subsidies.

They need to go.

To hell.
 

Jeffsus

TRIBE Member
You can look at this point from another perspective:

You burdened the school system with your own education.
You burdened the pediatric care centre when you were born.

In your 20s you're paying for kids that will be coming into your company when you're a middle manager in your 40s.

In your 40s you'll be paying for kids that will be contributing to your CPP or pension or subsidized apartment for seniors when you're in your 60s.

In your 60s your meager pension will be contributing to the babies in diapers who will end up getting Nursing degrees so they can change your diapers once you're 85 and up!

So... it doesn't matter if you have kids, you should still contribute and pay forward for all of those services that you've used and have yet to use.
No, my parents' paid for all that with their taxes etc. Just as today's parent's should pay for their own kids. I'm gonna benefit from any results from the investment that was made when I was in school.

So in short, whatever benefits I'm going to reap today were paid by the generation that raised me, and any benefits I receive when I'm old are being paid for right now by my income taxes. And those nurses who change my diapers when I'm old will either be paid directly by my savings or by the health care system into which I've paid my whole life. The fact that their parents' paid for them to go to nursing school isn't my choice.

-jM
A&D
 

Polymorph

TRIBE Member
So in short, whatever benefits I'm going to reap today were paid by the generation that raised me, and any benefits I receive when I'm old are being paid for right now by my income taxes. And those nurses who change my diapers when I'm old will either be paid directly by my savings or by the health care system into which I've paid my whole life. The fact that their parents' paid for them to go to nursing school isn't my choice.

-jM
A&D
y'know, you started this thread with an interesting point. But now it appears you're merely upset about having to pay taxes for services that do not benefit you directly.

You should totally vote for Harper.
 
tribe cannabis goldsmith - gold cannabis accessories

I_bRAD

TRIBE Member
No, my parents' paid for all that with their taxes etc. Just as today's parent's should pay for their own kids. I'm gonna benefit from any results from the investment that was made when I was in school.
I've got kids and I pay taxes to a school board that I don't use. I'm OK with that. Someone has to train tomorrow's labour force.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
y'know, you started this thread with an interesting point. But now it appears you're merely upset about having to pay taxes for services that do not benefit you directly.

You should totally vote for Harper.
Lots of noise, not much substance
 

JamesM

TRIBE Member
Between the Lady and myself. We make a really decent amount of money. 100k+ But it seems we're just a slave to this generation system. It's really a revolving door.

It all goes to taxes, and loans. Which I'm proud to do. No regrets. But at some point, at some time I want all that cash to go into my savings, not someone else's pocket.

Meanwhile the banks are hiring offshore, and taking advantage of immigrant labour, happy to make $10 an hour, and get their papers signed, getting houses, and cars automatically, While pushing us out. It's a real problem.

There, I said it. At work, they joke that i'm the only developer born in Canada. What does that mean exactly?

I'm not really angry, it's just a generation gap.

But still I'm the only one who can build an entire web app within 6 months. Because I've grown up in the microsoft system. They still need at least an army of 15 people. PM's QA's, 7 developers, and still can't make it happen. I'm a one man programming machine!

So barf :p
 
Last edited:

JamesM

TRIBE Member
But to be honest, at this company. I'm the guy on the other side of the tracks.

You have your 6 developers on one side, then Me on my side. I deal with a million dollar company on my own, and am responsible for 4 peoples jobs. The other guys are useless, and integrating systems until they become obsolete, with a billion dollar company with ~10,000 jobs.

Stress much? no
 
Last edited:

Jeffsus

TRIBE Member
y'know, you started this thread with an interesting point. But now it appears you're merely upset about having to pay taxes for services that do not benefit you directly.

You should totally vote for Harper.
The point is still interesting and valid, nothing has changed there.

I am questioning why I and others should have to pay for services that do not benefit me. For example, subsidized day care. More importantly, I am pointing out that all tax breaks I've seen come at the expense of no tax breaks for my demographic.

Note that I was the first to bring up that there may be fair reason to subsidize other people's children.

And to Praktik, I realize you will probably have a permanent vendetta against me, however I remind you that this is a nightlife board about goings-on in the party scene in Toronto. If you truly want an academic, critically thinking discussion about anything else, then pay me and I will speak at your next event. In the meanwhile, you're going to get a lot of true but off-the-cuff remarks from me; and perhaps once in a while we can talk about partying exceptionally hard.

-jM
A&D
 
Last edited:
tribe cannabis goldsmith - gold cannabis accessories
Top