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The Basic Universal Income

basketballjones

TRIBE Member
sure. a province that is dead broke with a gov that actively buys votes by continually cozying up to unions now wants to give free cash to ppl who def wont vote to stop that gravy train. what a bunch of fucking clowns. i guess with the amount of ppl they have put out of business and jobs this sounds like a great idea to these idiots

all of this when ppl are having to make the choice to eat or heat all the while we pay other provinces and states to take excess energy. good grief
 
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praktik

TRIBE Member
Studies show giving people straight cash is better than tying em down to foodstamps or other strictures.

There's a body of evidence behind the universal income BBJ, have you bothered to aquaint yourself with some of the economics and related research?

Summarizing this as "free cash" makes me think you aren't even really sure what the universal basic income is, or how it could be preferable in many ways to the current social safety net and its inefficiencies.

Unless you're a big defender of the status quo on the safety net now?
 

basketballjones

TRIBE Member
Studies show giving people straight cash is better than tying em down to foodstamps or other strictures.

There's a body of evidence behind the universal income BBJ, have you bothered to aquaint yourself with some of the economics and related research?

Summarizing this as "free cash" makes me think you aren't even really sure what the universal basic income is, or how it could be preferable in many ways to the current social safety net and its inefficiencies.

Unless you're a big defender of the status quo on the safety net now?
i never said foodstamps, that is american
you are so right praktik, it isnt free cash. they will borrow it, and then we just get hammered by new "revenue streams' to balance it out....perfect!
if this was such a run away success why arent there numerous stories in newspapers in this province championing it?

and please stop using amsterdam or iceland as comparisons. that is like comparing apples to crazy alien bananas and you know it
 
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praktik

TRIBE Member
What makes you say that people aren't covering it?

You realize you said this under erm, a lot of "coverage" that polymorph posted?

Last week's Fareed Zakaria GPS had a good debate about it.
Getting lots of coverage, because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
you are so right praktik, it isnt free cash. they will borrow it, and then we just get hammered by new "revenue streams' to balance it out....perfect!

What supports your assertion that basic universal income will mean new taxes? What if instead it cost less than current social safety net, and we could spend the savings on education? So then people could be exposed to knowledge about subjects before they start talking about it!
 

Polymorph

TRIBE Member
What makes you say that people aren't covering it?
Actually, if you're paying attention to this issue, you'll notice that it's been popping up regularly as a topic of (often) op-ed discussion from all sorts of news sources, since the past few years at least.

Here's some more:

The Ontario Government Is Investigating Giving Everyone Free Money

Free money is not so funny anymore: Confessions of a (former) skeptic of basic income

There's also a ton of ancilliary economics articles that point to the Basic Income discourse.
 

wickedken

TRIBE Member
I'm liking the goals of this but as always it's the details... what happens when you run out of your money before the next month? what social services bureaucracies will be able to be eliminated or reduced, or will still be needed and how will those voting blocks respond? how is the level of income decided?Probably the "free cash" aspect is the thing that people are most likely to get in arms about.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
Ya it can be spun in ways that hit familiar notes for people - the tropes about government giving away too much to poor people, ideas about who "deserves" it or not. Cultures of dependency - spendthrift liberals, etc etc

That's mostly just ideological autopilot -people resort to the familiar rather than take the time to understand a new idea.
 
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basketballjones

TRIBE Member
how about this trope for you praktik
get a fucking job. if you are disabled, yes we as a society should help out those less fortunate.
if there is nothing wrong with you then you should be able to go out and find work(good luck doing that in ontario now since the liberals have destroyed the manufacturing sector something you have yet to touch on)

you have yet to explain where the money is going to come from. the last 2 "money saving" initiatives the liberals have come up with just to deal with hydro costs they have had to borrow money to implement. lets not forget the fiasco that has been the money saving scheme to streamline welfare, odsp etc that still doesnt work and the price of the shoddy system continues to go up.

so, where oh where is the money going to come from to pay for this?
its just like raising the min wage, it just means employers will hire less ppl and expect more from the ppl they do retain.
 

basketballjones

TRIBE Member
The Conservative Case for a Guaranteed Basic Income

"Creating a wage floor is an effective way to fight poverty—and it would reduce government spending and intrusion"
i didnt know rubio was a senator here

you still havent explained where they will get the money from.
i noticed your nice thesaurus action above too. since you know so much about it you should put out your shingle and tell all of canada you have fixed income inequality and are going to usher in a new age of not having to work for a living

you do realize someone has to work to make any of this feasible yes?
 
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basketballjones

TRIBE Member
the american and canadian conservatives are vastly different
if this is such a big thing how come none of the major media outlets are talking about it.

i mean if this was something the liberals were about they would be blaring it from the toronto star and the globe like crazy
shit, the cbc would have it as their front page all day everyday

you have yet to tell me where the money for this comes from.

problems with your bills....here is a barely credible american source to soothe what ails...gimme a fucking break
as an aside, shit aint looking so good for old prime minister in waiting hilary eh praktik....lol. why isnt she championing this btw
 

Polymorph

TRIBE Member
Yeah, all these articles seem to detail the same major plot-points.

That being said, in terms of the creepy *moralizing* aspect of opinions like BBJs... Well, of course if I were to get a BIG (Basic Income Guarantee) cheque, of course I'd be spending part of it on *vice-things* like beer and tobacco, cuz I'm a smoker and I likes me fine quality Quebec microbrews. Seriously though, who are these fucking Puritans that keep using that creepy moralizing line of argument.
I mean, seriously though, the government should be happy if people use this money for cigs and booze, cuz they tax the hell out of those things. They're getting their money back!
 

basketballjones

TRIBE Member
Yeah, all these articles seem to detail the same major plot-points.

That being said, in terms of the creepy *moralizing* aspect of opinions like BBJs... Well, of course if I were to get a BIG (Basic Income Guarantee) cheque, of course I'd be spending part of it on *vice-things* like beer and tobacco, cuz I'm a smoker and I likes me fine quality Quebec microbrews. Seriously though, who are these fucking Puritans that keep using that creepy moralizing line of argument.
I mean, seriously though, the government should be happy if people use this money for cigs and booze, cuz they tax the hell out of those things. They're getting their money back!
where did i say that? nice projecting
i have said over and over again WHERE THE FUCK IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM
maybe you could donate your dumpster diving forays to this since you are so hot for it

i love you lefties, when someone asks questions you accuse ppl of being fill in the blank and never actually answer the direct fucking question
 

Polymorph

TRIBE Member
WHERE THE FUCK IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM
As has been detailed in several articles that have been posted, the initial MONEY to invest in a Basic Income would come from consolodating and closing down all other Social Assistance-based Social Services agencies, thereby reducing dramatically all the government-funded bloat and overlap being put into all these established Welfare-based agencies.

Basically, the government just sends everyone a cheque. No need to pay rent on Welfare buildings and hire a ton of welfare agents to oversee and monitor something there.

Also, as has been pointed out in many articles, increased basic income for every person means better healthy living and therefore reduced health care costs. As well as a major reduction in poverty-based crime. Which also costs the Government and the Police a shit-ton of Money to deal with, as it currently stands.

BIG is a weirdly simple solution to a host of many currently existing social problems.

Yeah, there will still and always be the crackhead idiots trying to hustle, but there always will be anyways.

Anyways, based on what I just said, I think the people most upset by the Basic Income discourse are actual Welfare Agents and other poverty-based social services people, cuz they're looking, thinking, "if this goes through, I could lose my job!"
 

basketballjones

TRIBE Member
good fucking god you are naive
if you think all of this magic will just up and happen and there wont be bloat....man you are dense

i bet you also bought all that green energy baloney the liberals were trumpeting
how has that worked out

the feds cant get their own program working and the provincial gov cant get their program to work either, so yes, lets toss a whole tool box of wrenches into the mix and promise ppl free money!!

unicorns and sunny ways galore

the liberals would fuck up a hand shake and it would end up costing us billions

can you please point me towards some countries with the same problems canada has that has adopted this
 
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Polymorph

TRIBE Member
Actually, it's true. VICE has been all over this issue since the get-go. Same with the Ukraine. They had reporters embedded in disputed, war-torn regions since the get-go.

In fact, while VICE still posts/prints the irreverent dumb articles (which are still super-fun to read), they also do the hardcore news, embedding reporters in the most dangerous regions all over the world.
In fact, our current Culture/Heritage Minister, Mme Melanie Joly, publicly stated that, "if the CBC is to remain relevant, they should be more like VICE (magazine).

Juries still out on whether the CBC is relevant or not.

Mélanie Joly says the CBC should take more Vice-like risks

Just so you knows I'm not just saying shit
 

janiecakes

TRIBE Member
Anyways, based on what I just said, I think the people most upset by the Basic Income discourse are actual Welfare Agents and other poverty-based social services people, cuz they're looking, thinking, "if this goes through, I could lose my job!"
LOL, no.
 
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