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Telus has outsourced its customer service to Guatemala

alexd

Administrator
Staff member
What the hell. I just called up telus to pay my bill and the woman on the other end of the line asked me what the weather was like in Toronto... When I asked her where she was located, she said Guatemala. WTF!?

You would think with the kind of money these Canadian telecom companies are raking in they would keep the jobs in Canada, but I guess that would be too much to ask.

The weather is getting a bit sunnier in Guatemala by the way.
 

kyfe

TRIBE Member
I Always ask where they are located, if its anywhere outside of Canada I ask them to transfer me to a Canadian rep.

This is the only way to force those jobs to stay in Canada
 

alexd

Administrator
Staff member
The telus publicist is trying to spin my complaint on twitter. I think it is completely shameful that they are outsourcing Canadian jobs to Guatemala while at the same time burdening Canadians with some of the highest cell and internet prices in the world.

At least in Guatemala their local telecom networks have cheaper cell and internet service so those telus service reps down there are doubly lucky - they get our jobs AND they have the luxury of nor being tethered to our gouging greedy oligopoly telecom companies for cell service.
 

Blysspluss

TRIBE Member
Eh, me and Mike from Bangalore get on fine. The Jamaican Xerox ladies are hella nice to deal with too.

Fuck the keep it in Canada..we're a global economy. Buy Canada has not happened, so I don't see what the gripe is.

I bet Guatamalans are deec folks to deal with, too. All about how you approach a problem with them...like anybody.

I don't think it a shame at all. We pay what the market bears. If you have a problem with that, maybe it's time to get involved and write your MP. Our legislation allows the oligopoly of our services...legalizes it even.

So who is to blame? The company looking to maximize the dolla dolla bills? I don't think so.
 
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acheron

TRIBE Member
I don't really give a crap who ends up doing the shitty telemarketing/phone support jobs but I DO care that the people who do these jobs are able to communicate clearly in the language they're hired to speak in. I gone back and forth with several support ppl clearly working from a desk in Mumbai, asking them to put someone else on who I can understand, I mean I'm pretty good with accents but these were thick as molasses. And they're supposed to step by step you through a piece with lots of jargon... Hard enough for native English speakers to get through it, let alone someone with the bare minimum of fluency.
 

JamesM

TRIBE Member
Fuck the keep it in Canada..we're a global economy. Buy Canada has not happened, so I don't see what the gripe is.
Easy to say this when you're in timbukto and pretty much guaranteed a decent canadian salary in line with what you've put into the system.

Enter Toronto where you can make more money flipping burgers at macdonalds than command your wage in programming/IT. People coming in straight to Toronto. People like us take care of their social, health, tax benefits while they take your job at the same time working more than less than half your wage.

The new global economy is, realization someone will always work for free. Just need to find them.

Ask RBC and their IT outsourcing programme. It happened to me too.

Keep it in Canada? It's all a huge joke.
 
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Blysspluss

TRIBE Member
Easy to say this when you're in timbukto and pretty much guaranteed a decent canadian salary in line with what you've put into the system.

Sure is easy to say. I moved to where the jobs are. Staying in TO for IT/tech work is crazy unless you've networked the piss out of yourself.

Out here networking is easier and the jobs are plentiful. They pay well too...because companies are hurtin' for skilled labour.

These Telus jobs are call center jobs at first level. That is min wage at best in TO. So why would I have stayed? Housing/rental prices are outrageous, salaries low, insurance(particularly auto) incredibly high...so yeah, I'm comfy saying what I say from where I sit.

The big boys will always outsource to save money...hell my own employer is taking a bit of foray into it themselves soon. No problem. When it comes to keeping costs low it sorta makes sense. As I'm sure it does for Telus.
 

kyfe

TRIBE Member
Until there is a demand to keep jobs in Canada the lower end and some skill trade jobs will disappear. Please don't be naive and say "it's the reality of the global economy" Companies will go where it is the most cost effective it's up to Canadians to speak with their dollars to force companies to reconsider to keep jobs here.

Take a look a Europe (UK, Spain, Greece for example), much like fashion:p we lag behind so use it as an indicator of what is to come. 50% unemployment amongst youth and recent grads is something I don't want to see and we are already seeing the start of it, since the 2007 recession we've seen about a 10% increase. These Customer service jobs while entry level give people the experience they need to progress into higher paying jobs without them they are stuck ina hole with no experience and no access to the labour market and higher competition.

Also, if children have to stay home longer and are neither working nor going to school (which is about 14% of the unemployed youth) that will eventually erode retirement savings of their parents who are put in a position of supporting their children into their 30's. With Youth entering the market later and/or taking longer to reach salary benchmarks it will further the cycle when it comes their turn to support their aging retired parents who eroded their retirement and worked longer (which reduces access for youths to jobs as well). Youth will struggle to support their parents.

This is a vicious cycle that needs to be nipped in the bud now
 

JamesM

TRIBE Member
Out here networking is easier and the jobs are plentiful. They pay well too...because companies are hurtin' for skilled labour.
cool man. Well that's the thing too. It's a race to the bottom right now in terms of skilled labour. Companies now tend to be rather warm to the idea that shit quality is something that is generally accepted by their clients.

Because clients are just as desperate to find at least something that resembles a product. Going the other way.
 

wickedken

TRIBE Member
Maybe the Guatemalan call center folks will help me solve what issue I have faster than the voice mail decision tree hell that was there. Don't even get me started on the Rogers "choice" tree.
 

derek

TRIBE Member
I Always ask where they are located, if its anywhere outside of Canada I ask them to transfer me to a Canadian rep.

This is the only way to force those jobs to stay in Canada
lol...how's that working? and are you willing to pay the higher price for products / service companies will unload to the consumer to recoup cost. if you are then kudos.

not against keeping / creating job in canada, just realize the market will dictate the value / cost of goods. outsourcing the right jobs is actually the way to go.
 
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Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
I don't think it a shame at all. We pay what the market bears. If you have a problem with that, maybe it's time to get involved and write your MP. Our legislation allows the oligopoly of our services...legalizes it even.

So who is to blame? The company looking to maximize the dolla dolla bills? I don't think so.
This is such a load of horse shit.
 

Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
Sure is easy to say. I moved to where the jobs are. Staying in TO for IT/tech work is crazy unless you've networked the piss out of yourself.

Out here networking is easier and the jobs are plentiful. They pay well too...because companies are hurtin' for skilled labour.

These Telus jobs are call center jobs at first level. That is min wage at best in TO. So why would I have stayed? Housing/rental prices are outrageous, salaries low, insurance(particularly auto) incredibly high...so yeah, I'm comfy saying what I say from where I sit.

The big boys will always outsource to save money...hell my own employer is taking a bit of foray into it themselves soon. No problem. When it comes to keeping costs low it sorta makes sense. As I'm sure it does for Telus.
You don't see the irony in your sentiment when the cost of living in Canada has driven you to live and work away?

Vapid comments like "we pay what the market bears" in an all time high of ridiculous prices/massive profits and diminished quality and customer service is pretty rich if you're not even "bearing it" yourself. You can remove yourself from the "we" factor altogether.
 
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praktik

TRIBE Member
There's a bit of a competitive trap going on - Blysspluss is right to highlight the systemic factors, including governments we voted in who have all carried the neo-liberal water and made it easier for Canadian companies to outsource (encouraging them to actually).

But in addition if 2 of 3 major telcos are outsourcing, the 3rd will follow as they will be ceding a competitive advantage to their foes if they didn't. This was not just an industry trend, but actually a far bigger trend touching companies in a whole variety of different sectors.

Singling out telus is missing the forest for the trees. If we all voted NDP the last few decades maybe we wouldn't be here, for now?

We've made our bed.
 

Balzz

TRIBE Member
Ask them if Quetzalacatenango really exists and if they've had a merciless hot pepper from there.
 

derek

TRIBE Member
You don't see the irony in your sentiment when the cost of living in Canada has driven you to live and work away?

Vapid comments like "we pay what the market bears" in an all time high of ridiculous prices/massive profits and diminished quality and customer service is pretty rich if you're not even "bearing it" yourself. You can remove yourself from the "we" factor altogether.
you're making two different arguments. and it's equally vapid to suggest we're in an all time high of ridiculous prices (which have actually been declining for many commodities / services) and massive profits (which is only a small percentage of operating companies).

diasporas based on economic need are as old as the mercantile system itself, just more prevalant and complex now.
 
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Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
Care to elaborate?

I'm referring specifically to the telecommunications industry, and stick to my earlier point.
 

kyfe

TRIBE Member
lol...how's that working? and are you willing to pay the higher price for products / service companies will unload to the consumer to recoup cost. if you are then kudos.

not against keeping / creating job in canada, just realize the market will dictate the value / cost of goods. outsourcing the right jobs is actually the way to go.
Well the reality is that I have been paying the higher price since the jobs have been in Canada all along and Telus has been incurring massive profit for the last 2 decades. So with that being the case I think you have it a little backwards as you are alluding to prices going up if jobs have to stay in Canada. If they outsource prices should go down as they are paying lower fees, taxes, salaries etc

A few things I'll ask you to consider:
1. The past decade has seen the average wage fall behind the rate of inflation, people are making the same but the cost of goods is increasing
2. Outsourcing is nothing new and Telus is just the latest to encounter negative press
3. Many companies that outsource have been recording record profits (think big banks, IT, telco's)
4. That savings is essentially being passed on to shareholders via the increases in stock value, not the consumer who has watched prices continue to increase.
5. Many of these companies are offshoring their profits and not paying appropriate taxes, this is on top of already receiving tax incentives to conduct business in Canada.

If I'm already paying prices that are on the high end, I don't have an issue continuing to do so if means it will keep someone employed rather than them becoming a social tax and taxpayers having to pay their EI, Welfare via increased income tax. I have yet to see any study that proves a direct link between outsourcing and reduced costs of goods, yet I've seen many that show a direct relationship between outsourcing and corporate profits.
 

Spinsah

TRIBE Member
Good post, kyfe.

And it makes the posturing by the Big 3 about saving those precious call centre in Moncton while under threat from Verizon all the more hollow.
 

derek

TRIBE Member
@kyfe and boss

i'm speaking on the economy as a whole not just telecom. i realize the thread title is specific but your post seem general in nature and i may have misinterpretted that you were talking on a macro level.

in commodities metal and food market have been declining, for finished goods take your pick. compartively we pay less for clothes, cars, and other goods then we did 20 years ago, this is largely do to efficiencies in manufacturing, processing, distribution and situating operations and functions in countries with the best cost propostion. energy is where we get hit hard.

http://www.imf.org/external/np/res/commod/pdf/CommodityMarketReview_April2013.pdf

outside of banking and telecom: textiles, automobile, and tech are three examples of where a combination of innovation, lean production and distribution, and off-shoring have all helped reduce COGS, and competively pricing as be reduced for customers. expecting some of these companies to inshore certain ops would bankrupt them given the competitive environment they operate in.

banking and telecom in canada are oligarchies and i do share similar concerns in their ability to rent seek, create barriers to entry, and fix prices

i just get a chuckle when people make comments about asking to speaking with somone in canada without thinking the increased cost of doing so will be past on the customer, whehter they want it or not.

personally, i'm for off-shoring certain low skill jobs and providing training and support to canadians for more skilled labour (ie higher paying jobs) but that a different beast all togehter.
 
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