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Stop Porter's Expansion Plans

Do you approve of Porter's Toronto Island Airport Expansion?

  • I approve of Porter's Toronto Island Airport expansion

    Votes: 28 75.7%
  • I don't want Porter's Toronto Island Airport expansion

    Votes: 9 24.3%

  • Total voters
    37
  • Poll closed .

alexd

Administrator
Staff member
Pretty self-explanatory. Hopefully most of you on this board see the value in stopping Porter from Paving the lake for their own expansion plans. If you want to preserve Toronto’s mixed-use waterfront and a boutique Island Airport, here's your opportunity to lend your voice by going here:

NoJetsTO.ca - Save Toronto's Waterfront
 

WestsideWax

TRIBE Promoter
Metrolinx is working on the Union to Pearson express. While I understand Porter's profit-mindedness, disguised as "we want to be able to serve more people", I do not agree with it, especially when it comes to the island. I have friends who live there, and it is a special place to go visit - I would hate to see its beauty sullied for the sake of stuffing a few more millions into executive pockets.
 

sianspherica

TRIBE Member
I live near the airport.

And as Porter and the airport has gotten bigger and bigger the Queens Quay and Bathurst intersection is more of a clusterfuck at times than I've ever known in my near 8 or so years living near there.

Especially with it being near the Martin Goodman Trail, there are tons of cyclists and joggers and pedestrians all through there all the time.

If the airport expanded there is no traffic infrastructure down there to support the fuckton increase of cabs, cars, buses, etc.

The entire idea in every facet seems so asinine and ridiculous.
 

Sal De Ban

TRIBE Member
it's funny when people unwittingly participate in a population density explosion, and then complain about it. If you moved into a waterfront condo during a huge condo bubble, and are now complaining about traffic and infrastructure, all I can do is laugh. You create the demand for an airport expansion, and then defy it with all your might. It's funny. Think about it.
 
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Rage

TRIBE Member
The issues with infrastructure in the city are way beyond expanding a small airport. The same Councillors who oppose the expansion are also the ones who have no problem approving endless condos being built in the core - stuffing more and more bodies into the core without any way to move them around.

How many residents live on the island full-time? 100? 200?

If you travel with any frequency at all - you'll be in full support of this airline/airport.

How much do you like spending $700 - $1300 to fly within your own country? To fly to BC or Alberta? This will change that.

The amount of jobs this will create is something to consider as well.

I have yet to hear of any valid reason why this shouldn't be done. Please enlighten me.

I may very well be in the minority on this particular message board as this is already a much more popular thread than my original thread to support the expansion.
 
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Rage

TRIBE Member
So it's o.k. to worsen them, then?
I don't believe it would make it that much worse & if infrastructure is really your primary concern, stopping this expansion is not the answer imo.

I live in the core & have for years. 10 min from the airport - I bike year round & through all the waterfront trails provided there's no snow/slush out.

Once the tunnel is completed & we have that walkway from Union it will make things much better or at least, not make it worse.
 

kyfe

TRIBE Member
I don't believe it would make it that much worse & if infrastructure is really your primary concern, stopping this expansion is not the answer imo.

I live in the core & have for years. 10 min from the airport - I bike year round & through all the waterfront trails provided there's no snow/slush out.

Once the tunnel is completed & we have that walkway from Union it will make things much better or at least, not make it worse.
walkway from union?
 
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Sal De Ban

TRIBE Member
How much do you like spending $700 - $1300 to fly within your own country? To fly to BC or Alberta? This will change that.
hahahahaha

ahaha

hahahahhahahahahhahahaah

aha

ahahaahahahhhha aha ahah ah a aha

hahaha

no.

domestic flight prices are not going to drop, marie antoinette.
 

Rage

TRIBE Member
hahahahaha

ahaha

hahahahhahahahahhahahaah

aha

ahahaahahahhhha aha ahah ah a aha

hahaha

no.

domestic flight prices are not going to drop, marie antoinette.
How do you know this? Do you know that Porter already offers lower fares to Canadian destinations than any other Canadian air carrier? How often do you travel? Do some research before you make comments like that.

Take a look right now (if you care) to see what AC or Westjet are charging for a flight to Montreal, Ottawa, Sudbury etc and then compare it to Porter.

Did you also know the Toronto Pearson has the HIGHEST airport fees out of any airport in the country. This will allow us to have cheaper fares, how do you not see this?

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH

BAHAHAHAHA
 
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Sal De Ban

TRIBE Member
next you're going to tell us that wealth "trickles down". They can charge those prices, people pay them already, so that won't change.
 

agentRC4

TRIBE Member
http://https://s3.amazonaws.com/porterweb/Content/plans/Reality%20Check.pdf

This is a good read I think. I fully support the airport expansion.

[CLAIM: No Jets TO claims that the Porter Airlines proposed expansion will damage property values and the real estate industry in Downtown Toronto.
REALITY CHECK:
• These are the same people who said 10 years ago that the airport would ruin the waterfront. Well, their predictions have not come true. Waterfront condo values rose more than 70% between 2003 and 2013. The Toronto Real Estate Board released their Condo Report (as of October 16), stating that so far in 2013, condo sales are up by almost 20%
• Brad Lamb, a downtown condo realtor and developer dubbed the “condo king,” has sold approximately 21,000 properties worth almost $8 billion since 1988. Lamb says that the airport has added value to the downtown, is a selling feature for downtown and waterfront condos and jets will only increase this benefit
• Lamb said, “I can tell you without any doubt in my mind, that if anything, the airport has added value to the waterfront and I believe that the CS100 jet service will continue to do so.”
• Located in the heart of Orange County, John Wayne Airport is surrounded by some of the highest priced real estate in California/QUOTE]

CLAIM: No Jets TO says that if jets are allowed at the airport, downtown jobs will be lost and tourism will decline.
REALITY CHECK:
• This was said 10 years ago, and look how Toronto has progressed. Condé Nast Traveler magazine named the City of Toronto one of its “Five Must-See Destinations in 2013.” What a coup for Toronto!
• In 2013, Toronto saw its highest employment numbers since 1990. Toronto was named the second best North American city for business investment, according to fDi Magazine’s "Overall North American Cities of the Future 2013/14” report.
• A city study has already confirmed that an increase in passenger volume will result in increased spending in Toronto’s accommodation, arts and entertainment, and sporting sectors, reported to be in the range of $134 million. Can’t argue with the experts!
CLAIM: Councillor Adam Vaughan said that this proposal “means from South Etobicoke to South Scarborough and right through the downtown core, you’re going to have jets buzzing around you at extended hours at this airport. I think that the residents that are in the flight paths of this are going to be very concerned because those other jets will not be as quiet or as clean, and they’re going to create very cloudy, very noisy and very disturbing skies” (April 10, CP24).
REALITY CHECK:
• What is disturbing is this doomsday prediction Mr. Vaughan is spreading. BBTCA is closed to private and commercial flights between 11 p.m. and 6:45 a.m. This is a rule that has been in place for 30 years and it’s not proposed to change
• What they haven’t told you is that 90% of Porter’s current flight paths are directed away from the city. Almost all of the new routes proposed are south and west of Toronto, meaning Porter flies away from the city—not over it
• Almost every plane you see and hear over the city of Toronto today is flying to or from Pearson. There will be no Porter “jets buzzing around at extended hours” as Mr. Vaughan claims
 
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sianspherica

TRIBE Member
Creating a massive airport out of a man-made island extension to faciliate jets flying around downtown along our waterfront is a completely fucking ludicrous idea.

It's bad for a vast number of people living near the waterfront (thousands upon thousands of people, not just those living on the island).

Traffic in the area already bad due to the expansion of condos (which has nothing to do with the idea of the airport expansion), the massive waterfront renovation along Queens Quay currently underway from Bay to Spadina has basically reduced an entire lane of traffic, making the area even less car friendly. That construction won't be done until 2015, so now trying to create an airport expansion which will create even MORE traffic while having LESS roads to faciliate it??!?! IT WONT FUCKING WORK.

You'd basically have to tear down the Malting Works and possibly Little Norway park to make a parking lot for the airport. How lovely.

Also...a lot of the residents upset about this are not new condo dwellers, they are the thousands of people closest to the airport in decades old townhouse complexes on Little Norway Cres, Bishop Tutu Blvd, Arcadia Co-Op - buildings that have been on the waterfront for decades and are not condos. Many of them are low-income co-op housing. I live on Stadium Road and the airport noise with just the turbo-prop planes is already loud on any number of occasions since I've lived here. Like...they are cycling the engines at 10pm in summer so shut all your windows to drown out the sound of the planes. Once they expand and have jets and turbo-props that sound is going to suck major dick. Should the thousands of people living in the surrounding neighbourhood (not the condos even) just all move if they don't want to hear all that sound - simply because your lazy fucking asses couldn't get on a train to Pearson to take a flight?

These are people realize downtown is expected to have noise, but the airport has never been the massive hub of activity it currently is already at, these are people concerned about their quality of life, safety, schools, parks, air, all being impacted by turning their backyard into Pearson Airport #2.

If Porter wants to fly jets they can do it out of Pearson which is perfectly suited to do just that. The rail link from Union to Pearson will be operation in 2015, significantly cutting down the stress of getting to Pearson.
 
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Wiseman

TRIBE Member
Some excerpts from the City Staff Report that recommends deferring the decision until proper study and input from all stakeholders can be achieved:

The HIA (Health Impact Assesment) found that the central waterfront population is already exposed to elevated
health risks from air pollution, noise, and traffic that originate from many sources,
including the airport:
Recommendations on BBTCA Tripartite Agreement Amendment Request 23

Current levels of air pollutants exceed health benchmarks and contribute to the
overall existing burden of respiratory, cardiovascular, and cancer-related illness in
Toronto. The BBTCA including related traffic contributes 10-15% of air pollution
for people closest to the airport, with the balance originating from non-airport
traffic, small industrial and commercial sources, home furnaces, and air pollution
from other parts of Ontario and United States.
In the absence of BBTCA, noise levels would already exceed health guidelines
which have been established to prevent annoyance, sleep disturbance and
impaired children's learning performance in most locations considered, mainly as
a result of traffic in the area. The HIA suggests that BBTCA noise increases some
adverse effects by up to 12% in some locations.
Current traffic conditions around the airport increase the risk of injuries especially
for vulnerable pedestrians including children. Traffic congestion hampers access
to recreational, health, and community services in the area, which provide a health
benefit to people who use them.

The airport is an important contributor to these risks, based on the HIA of current
operations compared with a baseline of no airport.
The HIA also indicates that the airport is currently affecting health by diminishing the
quality of local parks, community character, and cultural events. As well, the airport
contributes to climate change and introduces risks of aircraft accidents and spills or
explosions from fuels and other chemicals in a densely populated area.
The findings of the HIA suggest that the long-term presence of the airport on the City's
central waterfront is more important in determining the health of the people who live and
spend time there than the proposed incremental changes to the airport's operations. The
current vision in the City's Official Plan for the central waterfront as a densely populated,
vibrant area that celebrates and provides connections to the lakefront aligns with the
characteristics of a Healthy City. Optimal protection and enhancement of the health of
central waterfront residents and the City as a whole calls for a reduction of current and
future airport impacts.
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2013/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-64318.pdf
 

Ho||yw0oD

TRIBE Member
I was originally going to say I support the airport expansion as Pearson is more expensive. Before doing that, I decided to compare my purchased tickets for flying Billy Bishop to Trudeau tomorrow against prices for Pearson to Trudeau. Billy Bishop is, round trip, more expensive by $40. Why?
 

agentRC4

TRIBE Member
Actually Norm Kelly wants to support the expansion at this time and just put the details into the contract with Porter.
 
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Vise

TRIBE Member
I for one totally support the Porter plans. Considering how much of a gongshow it is to get to Pearson due to ridiculous traffic congestion I use the island airport as much as possible. The thought of flying to San Fran, Vegas, Vancouver, Florida etc from Billy Bishop would be a dream come true.

Not to mention that flying on Porter is at least 1000x more enjoyable that the cattle service on Air Canada.
 

Rage

TRIBE Member
Some excerpts from the City Staff Report that recommends deferring the decision until proper study and input from all stakeholders can be achieved:






It's BS like this which is the reason nothing ever gets done in this city. Millions of $$$ on studies that go nowhere. We would have had an adequate subway system in this city 30 years ago if it weren't for "studies" & "committees" pushing things back for years.

Toronto is a big city with a small town mentality - it's so frustrating.
 

coleridge

TRIBE Member
These are people realize downtown is expected to have noise, but the airport has never been the massive hub of activity it currently is already at
Uh no.

The airport quieted down in the late 90s, early 2000s. But before that it was heavily used, more so than it is today. It was used by much louder planes as well.

Yes at 10pm it's noisy. But at 11pm when they shut down it is one of the QUIETEST downtown neighbourhoods in Toronto.
 

WestsideWax

TRIBE Promoter
We would have had an adequate subway system in this city 30 years ago if it weren't for "studies" & "committees" pushing things back for years.

Toronto is a big city with a small town mentality - it's so frustrating.
None of this has anything to do with the negative impact expansion of the island airport will likely cause. Such matters should be thoroughly studied before a final decision is made.
 

Rage

TRIBE Member
I was originally going to say I support the airport expansion as Pearson is more expensive. Before doing that, I decided to compare my purchased tickets for flying Billy Bishop to Trudeau tomorrow against prices for Pearson to Trudeau. Billy Bishop is, round trip, more expensive by $40. Why?
It's not an exact science. 100 out of 100 times you're not going to get the cheapest fare but 90-95/100, yes, you will. I'm speaking from personal experience.
 
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