Some Ontario numbers...

[mingster]

Of the highest paid Public servants in Ontario:

• David Williams, President and CEO of the Worplace Safety and Insurance Board: $689,266
• Michael Strofolino, President and CEO,Hospital for Sick Children: $592,625
• Guy Giorno, Premier’s Chief of Staff: $168,050
• Mike Harris, Premier: $143,360
• Julian Fantino, Toronto Police Chief: $181,744

In 2000, 7,230 public officials get salaries in the 6 digits.
In 2001, 9,150.
That’s 1,920 more people making in the hundreds of thousands than from the previous year!

Harris’s chief of staff made 33% more this year, than last.
Striking Jail guards are looking for a 15% pay hike. 5% each year for 3 years.
They are being offered 6% over 3yrs.

This all seems wrong to me. Of course, there might be, and I’m sure there are, many details that I’m missing. But these are facts! They seem to indicate an imbalance, an error in the system. I’m not suggesting that guards receive a 33% increase, but how has Giorno’s cost of living increased by so much more than a jail guards’? How is my tax money justified, paying for David Williams salary, when the jail guards are the ones protecting me from the bad guys? As much as I don’t like Fantino, I can’t believe how little he makes. Harris makes less than one of his employees! The same employee who got a 33% pay hike last year.

It baffles me. And as much as I don’t agree with striking, I recognize that something is wrong. Who will fix it? Ernie Eves? Maybe after he works on beefing up his salary. And his chief of staff’s.

Can anyone offer a reasonable explanation for this? I’m willing to listen, I want to know that it isn’t as absurd as it seems…..

Ming.

 

[stir-fry]

your comments are very hypocritical.. i hope you apologize for yourself now!

let the flaming begin!

 

[Klubmasta Will]

if you want good people in top positions, you have to pay decent salaries. it's still nowhere near what those people could make in the private sector.

as for other (non-managerial) positions like, say, prison guards, there are an abundance of qualified people who are willing to work for the existing salary.

 

[OTIS]

I say there should be a $200,000 cap on any public servant.
I mean Hospital for sick kids has bloddy annual funding drives asking for financial support and they are paing their CEO almost $600,000???

How can you justify having a charity staus when you dish out that much cash to the top dog.

Unbelievable.

 

[djcheezwhiz]

another footnote to wills point...

universities can face huge problems in attacting academics to teach...often in the private sector phd financial whizzes can make well over 6 digit salaries (& into the 7 digit range w/ stock options etc)...the same principle applies to most senior officials of public services...to attract top talent you have to be aware of what the competition is paying (ie the private sector) & set your own salary policy accordingly...

will is entirely right...(although it can be tough to swallow some of the patronage stuff that goes on in the political circle)...

jc

 

[OTIS]

And Will, I don't believe that that higher salaries attract more compitent capable and all around better people.

Wouldn't you say that people who are motivated by passion instead of money would be better for the job?

 

[mcbee]

i heard on the news this morning that Mike Harris is job hunting as he quit yesterday to let Ernie Eves take over.

apparently, he is job hunting on Bay St, and looking for a 7 figure salary!!!

gah! i wish i could demand that much!

sarah

 

[416]

Originally posted by OTIS
I say there should be a $200,000 cap on any public servant.
I mean Hospital for sick kids has bloddy annual funding drives asking for financial support and they are paing their CEO almost $600,000???

How can you justify having a charity staus when you dish out that much cash to the top dog.

Unbelievable.

Oh my god dude, you need to obtain a clue.

Do you have any idea what sick kids is and what they do over there?

 

[Subsonic Chronic]

Those figures, the top ones anyway aren't all that high compared to private sector jobs. I'm sure that the CEO of my company makes several millions, just to come in here and fire a bunch of people.

And from what I understand, the big beef in the OPSEU strike is how Harris gave all the MPP's raises in the 30%-40% raise and now OPSEU is getting shafted when they want their piece of the pie.

Pete

 

[Gizmo]

Any person who works in a somewhat senior role at the provincial level is guaranteed a job somewhere in Bay Street. simply due to the contacts they have and the advantage they may provide an investment bank in getting lucrative provincial business such as bond issues, funding, swap protection etc. etc.

Best places to work in right now if you want to be wined, dined and taken to any event of your choice by bankers:

Hydro One.

 

[alexd]

Originally posted by Klubmasta Will
if you want good people in top positions, you have to pay decent salaries. it's still nowhere near what those people could make in the private sector.

as for other (non-managerial) positions like, say, prison guards, there are an abundance of qualified people who are willing to work for the existing salary.

These are good people?

 

[Klubmasta Will]

Originally posted by OTIS
And Will, I don't believe that that higher salaries attract more compitent capable and all around better people.

Wouldn't you say that people who are motivated by passion instead of money would be better for the job?

of course PART of the motivation is to make a difference. but the salary has to at least be somewhat comparable to what the person could make in the private sector.

look at how badly our city is run compared to properly-run companies. lots of our councillors are very smart but MANY of them are absolute morons. seriously, what do you expect when you are paying such tiny salaries?

fork over a bit more for the top positions (the people that make the big decisions) and they will save the government far more money than they take home as salary.

 

[mcbee]

Originally posted by Gizmo


Best places to work in right now if you want to be wined, dined and taken to any event of your choice by bankers:

Hydro One.

thats funny, cuz my dad has worked in senior management at ontario hydro (now hyrdo one) for 30 years.

and he seems to wine, dine and take bankers, politicians etc to events. (and occasionally me and my boyfriend to hockey games! so its not too bad)

sarah

 

[Klubmasta Will]

Originally posted by alexd
These are good people?

i don't know all of them. as for the ones i am familiar with, while i may not agree with all of their decisions (because we may have different political beliefs), they are very good at what they do.

if you are looking at people's performance through a microscope, you could criticize anyone.

 

[alexd]

Originally posted by mcbee


thats funny, cuz my dad has worked in senior management at ontario hydro (now hyrdo one) for 30 years.

and he seems to wine, dine and take bankers, politicians etc to events. (and occasionally me and my boyfriend to hockey games! so its not too bad)

sarah

Hook me up mcbee! I like my steak medium rare. Just say I am a visiting uncle on your boyfriends side (uncle D).

Dinning at the government trough always tastes better

 

[djcheezwhiz]

Originally posted by OTIS

Wouldn't you say that people who are motivated by passion instead of money would be better for the job?

unfortunately too often this is not necessarily true...

the dj/rock star analogy...

most djs are driven by a love for music...the majority play for nothing or next to nothing...a gig is not remebered on how much money you made, but on the atmosphere & crowd...it is about the passion for the music...however once this love evolves into a business something is lost...no longer are you driven entirely by playing your favourite music for friends & strangers, but the paycheque becomes a focus...we call this person a "sellout" no longer motivated by music, but apparently only in it for the money...similar? i'm not sure...but is it fair to believe the sick kids ceo is any different & should accept this role at anything less than the market will pay if she applied her skills in any other private sector business...

jc

ps

 

[poker face]

The bast is what I heard this morning that the Federal Government Spent $120k on Golf equiptment last year!

 

[Gizmo]

It's been a recent trend mcbee. only since they announced they were being privatised.

banks were falling over themselves to be the lead runners for their bond issue and their equity issue.

when they were a provincial controlled body, no one really gave a toot.

 

[OTIS]

Originally posted by 416


Oh my god dude, you need to obtain a clue.

Oh my god you need to stop belittling people and take your arrogant attitude out of my face. You think because your opinions are presented in antagonistic way they are more valid? Think again. Your overly typical responses are tired. Do I know you? No?
So have some common respect on this board.. it's not that hard.. everyone else manages quite fine. You wanna act like a walking penis all the time go to TorontoRaves... they'll love you there.

I've WORKED for organizatins that are partially funded through charitable organizations before and although nothing as big as Sick Kids I can assure you, everyone was grossly underpaid because EVERYONE REALZED there is another higher priority for where the money should go. And you know what, this brought together one of the most caring & selfless group of people I have ever met.

I'm sure it's a tough Job, but it is partially funded through charitable donations. And that bothers me.

 

[Rosey]

Originally posted by Klubmasta Will
if you want good people in top positions, you have to pay decent salaries. it's still nowhere near what those people could make in the private sector.

exactly. running a major hospital is like being the CEO of a large corporation. to get good people, you need to pay good salaries. you can higher joe-schmoe middle management lifer to run a toronto general for $150,000/year, but i guarantee you he'll cost the place millions because he's not qualified.

otis: I say there should be a $200,000 cap on any public servant.

why? running the province or a provincially funded institution is not any easier than doing comprable work in the private sector, in fact it is probably a great deal harder.

yes there are overpaid do-nothings in the ranks of the OPS (i'm one) but the guys at the top work their asses off for a lot less then they would get if they took their skills to the private sector. you know why? because many of them actually care and feel that they are making a positive contribution to society. that's why they take jobs that pay MILLIONS LESS then they could get elsewhere.

 

[OTIS]

Originally posted by djcheezwhiz


unfortunately too often this is not necessarily true...

the dj/rock star analogy...

most djs are driven by a love for music...the majority play for nothing or next to nothing...
jc

ps

Ummm.. I sense a bit of a contradiction here.. you use the DJ/Rockstar analogy. And it could only give merit to my argument.

Look at Oakie who never gives a crowd 2 looks when he plays.. no passion or spunk. Looks like he's only there to grab his paycheque. I know 100 other DJ's that would reduce the same crowd to rubble for free.. why because of passion.

A case of being paid more doesn't always attract the better person for the job.

 

[H2Whoa]

Originally posted by Klubmasta Will

....over a bit more for the top positions (the people that make the big decisions) and they will save the government far more money than they take home as salary.

I very much agree. You usually get what you pay for.

In the U.S. hospital Presidents/CEOs make millions in salary.

Its also strange to see the that a the Premier of a Province (which is essentially a huge corporation) makes less than a big city police chief. An executive leader's salary of a traditional firm with somewhere close to the same budgets would be off the scale - salary, stock options etc. $$$$$$$

 

[OTIS]

Yea, but in the US, most hospitals are privatized.

There are very few state run hospitals of comperable quality.

But what's different about sick kids is that it's a charitable organization. That, at least to me, makes a difference.

 

[416]

Originally posted by OTIS


Oh my god you need to stop belittling people and take your arrogant attitude out of my face. You think because your opinions are presented in antagonistic way they are more valid? Think again. Your overly typical responses are tired. Do I know you? No?
So have some common respect on this board.. it's not that hard.. everyone else manages quite fine. You wanna act like a walking penis all the time go to TorontoRaves... they'll love you there.

Just relax over there Sally. If you don't like what I'm saying then just ignore it. There's no reason to go on a paragraph long rant about how much I've hurt your tender little feelings.

I know, why don't you post a picture with a reference to the word, "chillax" or something equally as agrivating to me as my words are to you.

Unbeleivable.

 

[djcheezwhiz]

Originally posted by OTIS

Look at Oakie who never gives a crowd 2 looks when he plays.. no passion or spunk. Looks like he's only there to grab his paycheque.

but he was voted worlds best dj

actually you are right with your point...let me restate the analogy...

there is only 1 qualified headlining dj available for your club...dj x...

what would be the chance of getting dj x as your resident dj but you couldn't offer them as much as the international superclub down the street who also offered them a residency, record distribution deals, international tours...how do you attract this dj to your venue with this superclub around...you need the qualifications this dj brings to your business venture, so do you pay x dj more or explain to her that she should accept less because it's all about the passion...

it's a tough call (& perhaps the dj analogy is wrong)...

jc