Social class and family your thoughts?

[swilly]

Over the holidays i saw this girl who is immensly nice, intelligent and a solid academic at Mcgill, but her family is well.... kinda trashy or how she decribed them anyways( I did not think it much). But the reality was that her father and older brother swore alot and talked about inappropiate subjects in front of kids and drank and drove and the one brother was total trash 2 kids without a mom and living at home just a awfull situaiton.

Point being this young girl she kinda voiced concerns about her future and if she will be able to escape this life of hers with her family. She asked me if i think she meets a nice guy or brings back friends from University will they treat her differntly when they realize she comes from a trashy upbringing.

Naturally i told her not and that people who would think such things are not worth while speaking with but then again my family was also not too well off untill i was born and my mum became a principle. So i was brought up with the belief of equality for all and that one should not be judged the action of others,As we had only just escaped poverty thus i have a bias.
However, how does the rest of society see it?


Do you think a person's social class has much of a bearing on how you treat them and how you percieve them?

If someone has somewhat of a trashy family do you think they are trashy as well? Even if they are not.

Do you think issues of social class come to play when thinking about potential significant others?


Can someone whose parents or family are trailer trash be viewed a sophisticated inspite of thier family?

Can someone whose parents come from a very poor or unsophisticated backround succussfully integrate into contemporary candian middle class society?

How does one accomplish this and still include thier family, if there is such a differnce or even embarrassment?


adios
swilly

 

[PosTMOd]

I just jerked off into a sock, so I'll only be able to say this: Class is a construct of those without the brains to do without it.

That being said, the idea of class acts for most people as a sort of heuristic, since our brains are firstly classifiers, and only secondarily thinker boxes.

 

[chipotle]

Originally posted by PosTMOd
I just jerked off into a sock, so I'll only be able to say this:

omg

this first line made me laugh.

 

[Evil Dynovac]

Swill, read your own post again. I say this because you aren't talking about class per se, you are describing how these boorish men behave. That has nothing to do with their place in a social construct, but rather how they conduct themselves both in private and public.

Perhaps they act that way due to a lack of manners or education. The fact is that a well mannered and educated person will be accepted regardless of how rich or poor their parents are.

I don't think this girl has anything to worry about, but their may come a time when she will have to distance herself from her family as she grows up.

 

[SelfExel]

Originally posted by swilly

Do you think a person's social class has much of a bearing on how you treat them and how you percieve them?

If someone has somewhat of a trashy family do you think they are trashy as well? Even if they are not.

Do you think issues of social class come to play when thinking about potential significant others?


Can someone whose parents or family are trailer trash be viewed a sophisticated inspite of thier family?

Can someone whose parents come from a very poor or unsophisticated backround succussfully integrate into contemporary candian middle class society?

How does one accomplish this and still include thier family, if there is such a differnce or even embarrassment?


adios
swilly

I would like to state that poverty does not always equal ignorance. Although I think poverty is a general indicator of education and social skills. First think of it this way, no one wants to be poor and barely making by, but alot of people end up this way. From my experience as an immigrant and once at the bottom economic bracket and currently in the same position(not including homeless), there is nothing stopping me or anyone from reaching the highest economic bracket. The only think that keeps people from reaching their economic succes is themselves.

I look at all factors when judging people, but the best indicator of who they are is what they say and how they conduct themselves.

 

[fightingskurvy]

I really don't think that an average person would have a problem w/ it. I think the so-called 'protestant work ethic' has been engrained into our culture nearly as much it has in American culture. The idea of going from rags to riches is still highly romanticized.

 

[physix]

Swilly,

Social class and "having class" are two dif't things.

Is this family "trash" b-c of their behaviour?
or are they poor?

(not saying that all poor folks are "trash" but...)

at any rate, I have known ppl (girls and boys)
who have stopped dating someone b-c their
family was insane and they didn't want to have
to deal with them on a regular basis for the rest
of their lives. so, i think "trashy" families may
impede your relationship from progressing... but
only the super rich generally actually worry about
marrying poor.

 

[physix]

Re: Re: Social class and family your thoughts?

Originally posted by SelfExel
The only think that keeps people from reaching their economic succes is themselves.

I don't believe that the "blame the victim" thought
can -- or should -- be applied to every scenerio.

 

[SelfExel]

Re: Re: Re: Social class and family your thoughts?

Originally posted by physix
I don't believe that the "blame the victim" thought
can -- or should -- be applied to every scenerio.

I never said blame the victim.

 

[janiecakes]

Re: Re: Social class and family your thoughts?

Originally posted by SelfExel
Although I think poverty is a general indicator of education and social skills.

You would be surprised to learn how many highly educated poor people with good social skills there are in Toronto.

 

[janiecakes]

Re: Re: Social class and family your thoughts?

Originally posted by SelfExel
From my experience as an immigrant and once at the bottom economic bracket and currently in the same position(not including homeless), there is nothing stopping me or anyone from reaching the highest economic bracket.

Life is far more complicated than this. Your experiences are just that, yours, and probably give you far less insight into the experience of others than you think.

 

[The Tesseract]

Considering the circumstances that she comes from, I'd admire her.

My mom didn't exactly have desirable conditions herself growing up. My grandfather was a concentration camp survivor, and they left France with pretty much only the clothes on their backs. He managed to get a job working for Cadbury, making chocolates and such.
While, they were far from being white trash, they were still lower class nontheless. They worked real hard to send my mom to university so she would never learn the difficulties of that kind of life, as an adult.
My mom is now a director of a pharmaceutical company.

My folks are sort of pushing me to take what they did, and go to the next level... which is... looking rather difficult. heh.

 

[graham]

Heur !

 

[green_souljah]

Class distinction belongs in England.

This is Canada, now be gone.

 

[The Tesseract]

But Bill... we still have that kind of shit here.
The only difference is the class names are changed

What was "lower class" is now named "Immigrants/Trash/McJobbers"
what was "middle class" is now "people with college/university"
What was "upper class" is now "the asshole who cut you off in his Bentley".



Use this information wisely.

 

[physix]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Social class and family your thoughts?

Originally posted by SelfExel
I never said blame the victim.

by saying that "The only think that keeps people from reaching their economic succes is themselves" you're subscribing to a "blame the victim" theory.

By your assessment, if someone is NOT at an elevated status, then they only have themselves to blame since "The only think that keeps people from reaching their economic succes is themselves"

that's what sociologists call "blame the victim"

 

[Littlest Hobo]

Originally posted by green_souljah
Class distinction belongs in England.

This is Canada, now be gone.

Sing that from the mountaintops.

Class (demeanor) is not a function of wealth or education. This social class business make me want to watch 'Braveheart' and yell at the TV.

 

[green_souljah]

Originally posted by The Tesseract
But Bill... we still have that kind of shit here.
The only difference is the class names are changed

What was "lower class" is now named "Immigrants/Trash/McJobbers"
what was "middle class" is now "people with college/university"
What was "upper class" is now "the asshole who cut you off in his Bentley".



Use this information wisely.

Yeah, OK, fair enough Jos, you are looking at it realistically, which is fine.

This Swilly character is looking at it through different eyes.

The reason I don't agree with what he said is because it reminds me of my own family.

Originally posted by swilly
much). But the reality was that her father and older brother swore alot and talked about inappropiate subjects in front of kids and drank and drove
adios
swilly

See this is what pisses me off here.
This sounds like something my sister would say about me.
She is a nerd who goes to Mcmaster, she is completely ashamed of me, which I have no problem with, as I cannot stand her.

I think she is a geek.

I am not an academic. I hate school, I always have.

School is not for everybody.

My father is a very succsessful self employed businessman.

He has always had the finest automobiles, OWNS a beautiful home on 6 acres of prime real estate.

He finished high school, but never went any further than that, he didn't need to. Either did I.

My uncle is a little university nerd from Scotland who lives in a small ass bungalow in Ottawa, drives a beat up Mazda BUT he went to University, so therefore he comes to my father's house, thinking he is god's gift to the world.

My entire mom's side seems to look down at my dad only because he never "got an education"

They look at me and go "oh well he is working at his dad's shop fixing things"

They can all hop on a boat to fuck-offity land, or go back to England where all of this bullshit came from.

 

[fightingskurvy]

Originally posted by green_souljah
Class distinction belongs in England.

This is Canada, now be gone.

I think it exists mostly in the 'upper echelons.' One of my friends who came from rosedale moeny used to talk about how they would all deride the 'new money'

 

[stryker]

I don't think people in North America have really ever experienced class differences like in other parts of the world. For me I got a taste of it in the UK ith my cousins and other family members.
My family are from a very working class background. My moms side were factory and mine coal mine workers and my dad's dad was a rover and a handyman. When I was in London I got to exprience first hand the psychological and social bullshit wrapped up with the different social classes. I went to this house party one time and I started chatting up this girl and it turns out that she is part of the "upper class" and she knows the royals and she went to Eton and blah, blah, blah. Some of the people at the party were from working class fmailies and they automically gave here this kind of unspoken reverance just because of her upbringing. I mean it wasn't this whole big thing, but I could definitely feel this weird vibe from other people about her and I couldn't get over how ridiculous I thought this whole situation was.
My uncle Donny in Scotland is like that too, he's very proud of his working class background and when I was hanging out with him whiule I was in Glasgow I was blown away by how much he identified his income bracket with his station in life and how he had this kind of underlying conditioning towards the uppercrust of the UK.

And then there is the whole Caste system in India which is a whole essay in itself...

A lot of people in the UK subscribe to this whole class system bullshit and even though most of them know better I was still alarmed at how much of a part it plays in the identities of lagre group of people over there.

Stew

 

[windowlicker]

Originally posted by stryker
I don't think people in North America have really ever experienced class differences like in other parts of the world.

You're quite wrong, actually

visit the southern states in the U.S. sometime- its pretty sickening

 

[stryker]

Originally posted by The Tesseract
But Bill... we still have that kind of shit here.
The only difference is the class names are changed

What was "lower class" is now named "Immigrants/Trash/McJobbers"
what was "middle class" is now "people with college/university"
What was "upper class" is now "the asshole who cut you off in his Bentley".



Use this information wisely.

We don't have a class system. We may have people with different incomes but we don't have a class system, Europe does.
Stew

 

[stryker]

Originally posted by windowlicker
You're quite wrong, actually

visit the southern states in the U.S. sometime- its pretty sickening

is it a class thing or a race thing in the south?

 

[janiecakes]

both, stew.

 

[Evil Dynovac]

In the southern and middle USA they have this clear cut "black means poor" mentality. It's a self fufilling prophecy.