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So let's talk some Wayne Gretzky

JEMZ

TRIBE Member
Okay I grew up a huge fan of the great one. I feel he was a massive asset to the world of hockey, and prolly deserves the title of the greatest player ever.

However, my buddies and I were talking about it last night... and I will pose this question to you: How did Wayne Gretzky manage to get through his whole career with the kind of protection he had???

I mean, the league had to put out the word down the line that he was not to be fucked with or else he would have been fucked with. How else would you expect to stop the guy??

This poses the next question then: Was the integrity of the sport compromised because players did not treat Wayne Gretzky the way they treated other players??? One could argue that by not flattening him against the boards, they might-as-well have thrown the game.

Then the next question: Would Wayne Gretzky have been as good if evey time he played the resident tough guy (beit John Kordik or Bob Probert par example), checked him into the stands???

Then the next question: Would he be the great one if someone had just given him a few concussions early in his career and he actually had to fear (or at least be cautious) of playing the boards???

So Ultimately: Was Wayne Gretzky given special treatment that unfairly gave him an advantage that other players didn't have???
Jamie
 

joey

TRIBE Member
Wayne Gretzky is my hero!
I have over 300 hockey cards of Gretzkys alone
(including 4 rookies
)

I don't think they had a big meeting of the nhl and said "okay now you can't hit this guy"
in the early days people would hit him just like anyone else...

later on i think there was a combined effect. People wouldn't hit him quite as hard due to respect, and also they know that they would get messed up hardcore. He played the majority of the time with Marty McSorley and had other tough guys on his teams like Bukeboom, and others.

Its just like any big star now adays (who cant really hold their own). Lindross is a big guy and can take a hit, but I always see people pulling back on Sakic, Bure, Selanne, Kariya, and pretty much all of Detroit. People know that if they mess with a big scorer they're gonna get fucked up!

Plus, back to Gretzky, please, lets not forget that he did get in a fight once....

long live Wayne Gretzky!
 

stir-fry

TRIBE Member
i think it also comes down to the way he played.
he never skated across the blue line with his head down like lindros did.. therefore never opening himself up to huge hits like lindros has taken in his lifetime.

also, since gretkzy wasn't a big hitter i guess players didn't feel the need to be big hitters back at him.

plus all that stuff that joey said
 

junglisthead

TRIBE Member
the only reason gretzky was good, was the fact the oilers were a stacked team

there will never be a team, that was so dominating and so full of stars as were the oilers during their 80's reign

and yes i also believe there was protection from the nhl on gretzky, after the nhl saw all the hype surrounding the great one, the head guys made sure their star player was comforted in the best possible way

prime example, 1993 semifinals, game 6 the leafs and kings, in overtime, gretzky slashes gilmour,which in turns causes blood, automatic 4 min penalty................not for gretzky

gilmour has to go to bench to clean wounds, gretzky scores on ensuing play
 
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joey

TRIBE Member
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by junglisthead:
the only reason gretzky was good, was the fact the oilers were a stacked team

there will never be a team, that was so dominating and so full of stars as were the oilers during their 80's reign

and yes i also believe there was protection from the nhl on gretzky, after the nhl saw all the hype surrounding the great one, the head guys made sure their star player was comforted in the best possible way

prime example, 1993 semifinals, game 6 the leafs and kings, in overtime, gretzky slashes gilmour,which in turns causes blood, automatic 4 min penalty................not for gretzky

gilmour has to go to bench to clean wounds, gretzky scores on ensuing play

</font>
the only reason gretzky was good cause he was on a stcked team....?

are you insane?!?!?
the only reason the teams he played on was stacked is because HE was on them...
thus the people on his lines (Kurri namely) got a lot of points, and thus seemed like a super star because of either Wayne setting them up and doing some of his magic and scoring a goal after a ghetto pass from them. If you look at peoples stats when they played with Gretzky compared to when they weren't there is a huge visable difference

and there were a lot of teams that doninated the 80's
the New York Islanders totally dominated 80-83 with four straight cups
80- vs phili 6 games
81- vs minnesota 5 games
82- vs canucks 4 game sweep
83- vs oilers 4 game sweep

dont say that is not domination


i don't think "the head guys" laid out any safe keeping for Gretzky. If there is anyone to questionin the situation you said it would be the refs. There are tons of crooked refs out there, or they just might like one team more then the other and thus they get a break on calls

Wayne Rules
 

Hal-9000

TRIBE Member
Gretzky pretty much dominated every level of hockey he played. Knowing this, I can't see how one would say he only excelled because the Oliers were a stacked team.
 

junglisthead

TRIBE Member
gimme a break

messier, coffey, fuhr, with ranford, moog, mactavish, lowe, anderson plus kurri

all players that showed dominance after gretzky left town
 

labRat

TRIBE Member
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by junglisthead:
the only reason gretzky was good, was the fact the oilers were a stacked team </font>
whatever. did you ever watch the guy play back in the 80's? how 'bout when he was a junior? or as a kid? sure, the team was stacked, but that isn't the only reason why he was good. for his time he could skate circles around anyone and blast a slapshot into any corner of the net.

i recently watched the '84 stanley cup final game (the oiler's first cup) and the game was played completely different then. the guys were smaller, they didn't go out and hit someone every chance they got. there was skating and passing, not just the dump and chase shit that goes on now. it was a nice change from the norm that we're used to now.

he was the ultimate player for the 80's - in the last ten years or so the game has changed dramatically. the players are a good 3" taller on average and 50 lbs heavier, the play is way more physical. you get a few finesse move once in a while but those are rare and short. you hardly see an end to end solo rush anymore, like the way bobby orr and gretzky used to do quite often.

if you look at the leaders in the league now, they compose of guys like jagr, lindros, iginla, thorton. these guys are large in comparison to gretzky.

he did have a bit of 'protection' when he played, but when you have a guy that completely dominates the sport and can only do good things for the league why not protect him a bit. he did great things for hockey, and if someone were to put him out they would be punished by the collective league (players, coaches, refs, etc.).

--craig
 

junglisthead

TRIBE Member
one note to point out

the oilers went on to win a cup after gretzky left town

gretzky never won another cup, and his only final appearance was the 93 in which, was a scam
 
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sugar

TRIBE Member
Despite how much I hated the two years I spent working at his restaurant, the several times I met him, he seemed to be quite a nice guy. Never too busy to sign an autograph or speak to a fan...just like his father.

Happy Birthday Wayne!
 

roo

TRIBE Member
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by junglisthead:
one note to point out

the oilers went on to win a cup after gretzky left town

gretzky never won another cup, and his only final appearance was the 93 in which, was a scam
</font>
they will never find your body.
 

R4V4G3D_SKU11S

TRIBE Member
I saw Gretzky on TV last night talking about Peter Gzowski. Basically he was saying that he admired Gzowski for sticking it out in Canada when he easily could have headed South for bigger bucks. The irony made me laugh out loud.
 

Preroller

TRIBE Member
ok, how bout this for a stacked team:

Hasek - Fuhr
Yzerman - Gretzky
Shanahan - Kurri
Robitaille - Messier
Hull - Anaderson
Lidstrom - Coffey

So save that Gretzky is better then all these guys, I would say that Detroit is just as stacked this year as the Oilers ever were.

And those Islander teams were real good too.

But it still doesnt mean you will win the cup, you still have to play out the season. Pelle Lindburgh didn't just give the cup to the Oilers, did he?

So as for your question, I would really have to agree with whoever said that Gretzky was a phenomenal skater, and didn't skate across the blue line like Lindros does. Plus if someone would have fucked up Gretzky, Buekeboom, or MacTavish or McSorley or one of the other goons would have fucked them up bad. I don't really think there was a league wide call to not hit the Great One, but players were just scared of the consequences from the rest of the Oiler team.

Anyone remember when Gary Suter crossed checked Wayne form behind in the Canada Cup i think. I thought that Gretzky was dead.

Also when I was younger, i spely Gretzky like Geztky.


Dave
 
G

Guest

Guest
I've seen gretzky get hit hard and I've seen him get into a fight.
 
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junglisthead

TRIBE Member
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Preroller:
ok, how bout this for a stacked team:

Hasek - Fuhr
Yzerman - Gretzky
Shanahan - Kurri
Robitaille - Messier
Hull - Anaderson
Lidstrom - Coffey

So save that Gretzky is better then all these guys, I would say that Detroit is just as stacked this year as the Oilers ever were.

And those Islander teams were real good too.

But it still doesnt mean you will win the cup, you still have to play out the season. Pelle Lindburgh didn't just give the cup to the Oilers, did he?

So as for your question, I would really have to agree with whoever said that Gretzky was a phenomenal skater, and didn't skate across the blue line like Lindros does. Plus if someone would have fucked up Gretzky, Buekeboom, or MacTavish or McSorley or one of the other goons would have fucked them up bad. I don't really think there was a league wide call to not hit the Great One, but players were just scared of the consequences from the rest of the Oiler team.

Anyone remember when Gary Suter crossed checked Wayne form behind in the Canada Cup i think. I thought that Gretzky was dead.

Also when I was younger, i spely Gretzky like Geztky.


Dave
</font>

preroller thats all great and dandy comparing the redwings with edmonton

but you forget that those star players on the redwings are close to retirement, whereas the oilers were all in their prime years........ big difference

and like i said, edmonton went on to win another cup without gretzky, where gretzky didnt..........it shows how dominate the oilers team was
 

CC

TRIBE Member
keep in mind that his oiler days were by far his best. and back then, i don't think there was so much pressure to stay away from hitting him. some teams in more recent times did try to handle him physically once and a while, but it doesn't work. he's too smart for that. he doesn't really rush into the corners, he usually stays away from other players. as far as telling players not to hit him, it was mostly business. i can think of three good reasons for not hitting him. 1)the league would have been in huge trouble if someone hurt him with a cheap shot 2) if you hit him, as with most star players, you have to deal with a huge goon looking to take off your head. that's just standard hockey rules 3) people just respected the way he played the game and let him play it the way he does.

anyone remember the name of the guy who checked gretzky during his first shift in the nhl and then he never played professional hockey again?

CC
 

joey

TRIBE Member
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Preroller:
ok, how bout this for a stacked team:

Hasek - Fuhr
Yzerman - Gretzky
Shanahan - Kurri
Robitaille - Messier
Hull - Anaderson
Lidstrom - Coffey

Dave
</font>

not to mention Federov, Chelios, Draper
 
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joey

TRIBE Member
also I don't see a difference between easing up on superstar hockey players as defences ease up on quarterbacks just as much
 

-Mercury-

TRIBE Member
How would their legacy's have been differant if #99 spoke french first/talked to reporters less, and #66 spoke english first/was more media savvy???

Personally, I think mario is/was a better player. And he doesn't get the calls/respect from the ref's like gretzky did.
 

joey

TRIBE Member
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by -Mercury-:

How would their legacy's have been differant if #99 spoke french first/talked to reporters less, and #66 spoke english first/was more media savvy???

Personally, I think mario is/was a better player. And he doesn't get the calls/respect from the ref's like gretzky did.
</font>

how the hell can you say Mario is a better player?
what do you base this on?
 

kennyboy

TRIBE Member
I agree with some of what Mercury said.
I think Mario is a more talented player offensively, but Gretzky was a much smarter player.
He just has a natural instinct for the game that very few, if any, have had before or since.
I don't care how good the teams he played on were, you do not get as many points as Gretzky did unless you are an incredible player. Certainly one of, if not, the best ever.
And Junglisthead, as for never winning another cup after leaving Edmonton. Very few players ever win one in their entire career. The fact that he was part of a winning team 4x is incredible. Doesn't diminish what he has accomplished.
And a true class act.
I played hockey and have a lot of friends either in the NHL or that played in the NHL. They have nothing but great things to say about the man.
 

joey

TRIBE Member
i just cant grasp how you can say he is better offensivly..

look at their stats for christ sake
 
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