Rink Rage Trial.

[Illogistix]

Imagine if this happened in Canada - trial of the millennium!!!!

Do you convict or acquit?

I say he gets involentary manslaughter - there are 9 women on the Jury - most of who won't be able to relate to what it feels like to be in an actual street fight - so his whole "self-defense/rage of uncontrollable anger" defense won't skate....

 

[Illogistix]

here is a link.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/01/10/hockey.dads.trial/index.html

 

[Subsonic Chronic]

He killed a man. I have a hard time believing that it was "self-defense" from what I've read, but I can sort of understand how in the heat of the moment things might have gotten carried away and he didn't realise what he was doing.

He deserves at least involuntary manslaughter IMO. The guy he killed was half his size.

Pete

 

[Illogistix]

Where is Will with the expert commentary?

Now is your chance to shine!!!!

 

[pr0nstar]

Pfftt... Man Slaughter.

It's a freaking sport, not Ultimate fighting.

No excuses, I hope he gets what is coming to him, he's killed a man, there is no excuse for that.

Kenny.

 

[poker face]

He killed a man so he is going to go down. Also he is one big mofo and they said it was around three punches so he must have kicked some ass in his day and it is catching up to him now.

The sad thing is that he did it in front of the kids on both sides.

 

[Jeremy Jive]

One of the witness testified that there were only three punches thrown. Another expert witness testified that the blow that cause the death was a freak occurance. He didn't hit him that hard, he just hit him in the wrong way.

jeremy -it happens in boxing all the time- jive

 

[Illogistix]

Witnesses say the other man attacked him....

Now obviously he went waaaay too far.

But do you not have to right to defend yourself if someone wants to kick your ass??? I think you do (hence the involuntary manslaughter).

 

[janiecakes]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by poker face:
The sad thing is that he did it in front of the kids on both sides.</font>

that's fucking disgusting.

 

[kuba]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Illogistix:
Witnesses say the other man attacked him....

Now obviously he went waaaay too far.

But do you not have to right to defend yourself if someone wants to kick your ass??? I think you do (hence the involuntary manslaughter).</font>

Yeah you do, BUT, if I am 160 pds (which I am funny enough) I would not go picking fights with a guy that is 270! If I did, then I would expect an ass whoopin' unless I was Bruce Lee or something.

Flip the script,,,

If I was 270, then I would kick his ass but not kill him. I know this guy's "type". He obviously is not a gentle giant and did not know his own strength.

Irregardless, one Dad is dead and the other must go to face the consequences because someone died in his hands.

 

[RJ45]

"Ladies and Gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk who carried a gun and ran from the mob. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it. That does not make sense. Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor with a bunch of two-foot-tall Ewoks. That does not make sense.

But more important, you have to ask yourself what does this have to do with this case. Nothing. Ladies and Gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case. It does not make sense. Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a client and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies and Gentlemen I am not making any sense. None of this makes sense.

And so you have to remember when you're in that jury room deliberating and conjugating the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No. Ladies and Gentlemen of this supposed jury it does not make sense. If Chewbacca lives on Endor you must acquit.

I know he seems guilty. But ladies and gentlemen this is Chewbacca. Now think about that for one minute. That does not make sense. Why am I talking about Chewbacca when a man's life is on the line? Why? I'll tell you why. I don't know. It doesn't make sense. If Chewbacca does not make sense you must acquit. Here look at the monkey, look at the silly monkey.

The defense rests."

 

[pr0nstar]

LOL @ RJ!!!

 

[janiecakes]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by qtip:
If I was 270, then I would kick his ass but not kill him. </font>

you would kick his ass in front of his own (and your own) kids?

that's ridiculous.

all the guy had to do was defuse the situation and leave. he had over 100 pounds on the guy he killed. you don't 'kick someone's ass' when you're that much bigger than them.

 

[Rosey]

hmmm this whole thing reeks of bullshit.

as somebody who has been 'bigger' most of my life i've had enough little shits trying to prove something by starting with me too many times. so i sympathize with the defendant.

people percieve things, especially violent things in totally different fashions. example: i witnessed a car accident on bloor a couple of weeks back. as objectively as possible, i would say that a car pulled out from a parking spot to attempt a u-turn and struck/was struck by a car in the centre lane. from my point of view the car pulling out was totally at fault, the woman made a u-turn into oncoming traffic, pretty much without looking. there was a woman standing beside me who saw what i did and was freaked out. she wanted the cop (who showed up almost instantly) to throw the other driver in jail for dangerous driving because she felt the accident was caused by that driver agressively speeding up.

one person might see a gigantic man pounding on a smaller man, another might see a fucking little nut job with a bad case of 'little guys' syndrome going nuts on a guy who doesn't want any trouble.

i think he'll get off based on the 'freak chance punch' testimony. it will be hard to prove that he knew he was acting in a way that could kill the little fucker.

 

[Rosey]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by janiecakes:

all the guy had to do was defuse the situation and leave. he had over 100 pounds on the guy he killed. you don't 'kick someone's ass' when you're that much bigger than them.</font>

i'm sorry janie but that is a crock (IMO). as any bigger guy can relate, way too often little fuckers think they can get away with extremely agressive assaults on bigger guys because they know the big guy won't go down and can't fight back hard without looking bad. little shits starting throwing punches and kicking (with skates on in this case) as soon as they can because they know that they'll get away with it. the second the bigger guy starts fighting back he becomes the agressor in the eyes of the puny world.

sorry, but i went through a lifetime of hell in elementary school where i would get punished for throwing one punch after i got beat on and hit with rocks/chunks of ice/clods of dirt for half an hour. why was i guilty? in the words of the priniciples/teachers "because you're bigger." they can go fuck themselves.

 

[LeoGirl]

^^^Rosey, point taken but the guy was smashing the other guys head off the ground, that's not a 'freak' incident.

He lost control, in front of his kid and the kid of the guy he killed. I wasn't there, I didn't hear what was said, but to act like that at a KIDS hockey game IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. Maybe at an NHL game, but these are kids playing a kids game.

I feel bad for the guy who did this, I'm sure he didn't mean to kill the other guy. And to have to live with this for the rest of his life is punishment in itself. BUT, he deserves what he gets, he should have thought about the consequences before he threw a punch whether it was in defence or not.

I understand how anger can become all consuming, but I also know where the lines are and I don't cross them.

Just my opinion.

 

[janiecakes]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by LeoGirl:
^^^Rosey, point taken but the guy was smashing the other guys head off the ground, that's not a 'freak' incident.

He lost control, in front of his kid and the kid of the guy he killed. I wasn't there, I didn't hear what was said, but to act like that at a KIDS hockey game IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. Maybe at an NHL game, but these are kids playing a kids game.
</font>

i agree.

 

[LeoGirl]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rosey:
(with skates on in this case) </font>

but Rosey, these were parent watching their kids play hockey. Neither the coach or the parent had skates on. It's so up in the air as to who went after who. But these were adults (at a childrens game) and it should not have escalated the way it did.

The story I heard was that the Dad made mention of some roughness on the ice and the coach said "well that's hockey" and it continued from there. Aparently the Dad did leave for a moment but then came back in.

 

[janiecakes]

leogirl, the guy who died was actually wearing skates, according to the star.

 

[CC]

my post shall be short: he should be locked up. i also believe that all parents exhibiting violent behaving, or found to be encouraging violence in their children should be banned from stepping inside ANY hockey arena. parent's are 80% of the problem with kids hockey. coaches and NHL fights are the other 20%.

CC

 

[LeoGirl]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by janiecakes:
leogirl, the guy who died was actually wearing skates, according to the star.</font>

oh really? then I was mistaken. But he was the coach right, so I guess that would make sense. The Dad wasn't though, or was he?

Sorry, I stand corrected Rosey,.

 

[Rosey]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by LeoGirl:
^^^Rosey, point taken but the guy was smashing the other guys head off the ground, that's not a 'freak' incident.
</font>

that's what one witness said. that's not necessarily a fact.

you're just going with the, he's bigger so he's guilty point of view.

'banging his head on the ground' to one cowering woman who shits herself and starts crying as soon as a punch is thrown is struggling to free yourself from a madman to a person with a different point of view. i am aware that i'm am arguing with extreme bias and making assumptions about the witness that i could not possible know to be true. but i feel that since everybody is agianst the big guy (as usual) i should defend him.

i'm not saying that is what happened. none of us know. odds are it's a little of both. the little guy went nuts and started a fight. the big guy was pushed too far, lost control, and ended it. meh, i'd say it's a lesson learned, let the guy go with 'rage management' classes and community service. but then again i have almost no respect for human life in general and take a very harsh view of some things.

 

[416]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rosey:
i'm sorry janie but that is a crock (IMO). as any bigger guy can relate, way too often little fuckers think they can get away with extremely agressive assaults on bigger guys because they know the big guy won't go down and can't fight back hard without looking bad. little shits starting throwing punches and kicking (with skates on in this case) as soon as they can because they know that they'll get away with it. the second the bigger guy starts fighting back he becomes the agressor in the eyes of the puny world.

sorry, but i went through a lifetime of hell in elementary school where i would get punished for throwing one punch after i got beat on and hit with rocks/chunks of ice/clods of dirt for half an hour. why was i guilty? in the words of the priniciples/teachers "because you're bigger." they can go fuck themselves. </font>

I dunno dude. I kinda agree with Jane on this. I totally know what you're saying... it never "looks good" when a big guy is fighting a shrimp unless the shrimp is winning... But the extra foot in height, half foot in reach, extra leverage, extra muscle mass that a big dude has is also kinda unfair.

I find that being big helps keep me outta fights. I don't wanna "look bad" working a little shrimp... and I'm also not too keen about fighting guys my size (cause I don't like getting hit by a big dude any more then little guys do).

I guess what I'm saying is that the whole "don't smack a shrimp" thing is a bit unfair, but it's something you need to consider because it's a wee bit valid.

I think the situation with this hockey dad is a bit different. The dude flipped out because it was his son... that could of triggered some crazy shit... know what I'm saying? I would really feel bad if I slapped a guy around who was at a huge disadvantage, but I don't think I would consider that if one of my kids was involved.

 

[janiecakes]

what if your kids and the other guys kids were watching jer?

wouldn't that make a difference on the way you'd act?

 

[H2Whoa]

Smaller guys beat the crap out of bigger guys all the time. Size means shit.