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Revisiting Rachel Corrie

~atp~

TRIBE Member
An introduction from Rachel Corrie's sister:

Only a year ago, the approach of the month of March would have held the same positive associations for me as it has for many - the beginning of the end of winter, the promise of springtime and even summer not too far behind. This year, and for every year for the rest of my life, the approach of March will mean something else entirely - the anniversary of the brutal death of my cousin, Rachel Corrie. On March 16th, 2003, an Israeli soldier and his commander ran over Rachel with a 9 ton, Caterpillar bulldozer while she stood - unarmed, clearly visible in her orange fluorescent jacket - protecting a Palestinian home slated for demolition by the Israeli army.

Rachel Corrie was part of the International Solidarity Movement, engaged in non-violent protesting activities, not the least of which include walking children to school, families to their gardens/groves, and defending against home demolition by the Caterpillar bulldozers used by the IDF, and purchased from the United States.

Despite a number of witnesses, all of whom have consistent testimony, the death of Rachel Corrie went relatively unnoticed in western media, and justice was by no means served: this is heartwrenching both for families, friends and the international community.

It serves as an extreme example of Israel's disregard for international law, and arrogance when dealing with pro-Palestinians, no matter who you are.

Here are the records of testimony from the eyewitnesses:

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1675.shtml
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1674.shtml

The following is an excerpt from the testimony provided above:
As we had been doing throughout the previous several hours we were there placing ourselves bodily between the IDF bulldozers and the civilian structures. The action were we engaged in around the olive grove continued for some time as the D-9 bulldozers piled up earth and detritus from previously destroyed civilian structures in their shovels and moved them towards us. Just prior to the incident which led to Rachel's death I was sitting atop just such a pile of rubble with my fellow activist Joe, and owing to the bulldozer nearest me being in reverse I was focusing on the other bulldozer which was moving towards Rachel (who was crouched about fifteen metres from the front of the bulldozer, and thus was patently within the line of sight of the bulldozer driver, wearing a fluorescent orange jacket) at a speed of some five miles per hour, or so, a slow and purposeful advance. The bulldozer's blade was lowered and the bulldozer continued to progress at a steady five miles per hours, or so, notwithstanding Rachel's presence as it reached Rachel with its pile of earth and rubble in the van of its shovel. When this reached Rachel she ascended the pile. It was at this point within the driver's capabilities both to see Rachel on the top of the pile of earth and to stop, as it was within the capabilities of the nearby driver of the other bulldozer, and the crew of the nearby tank to see Rachel atop the mound of earth. At no point however did the driver of the bulldozer which killed Rachel make any attempt to stop or slow down. The bulldozer maintained its steady pace. Rachel then began to turn, perhaps to escape from the top the pile of earth in light of the fact that the driver was not slowing down. During her turning she slipped and fell to the ground in front of the bulldozer which notwithstanding continued its steady pace and Rachel was quickly engulfed in the progressing mound of earth.


There are misconceptions about how this was somehow an "accident", which is utterly ridiculous, especially once you sit down and read through the testimony and evidence.

Imagine if this sort of thing had happened in Iran to an American politician, for example? Bush would probably just drop a bomb on Iran. Inequality indeed.

rachelcorrie01.jpg


rachelcorrie02.jpg


rachelcorrie03.jpg
 
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derek

TRIBE Member
i was just commenting to a friend the other day how well this whole incident was swept under the rug. not surprised really.

the idf soldier should have been tried the world court. of course that would be silly as the us only sees value in the world court for holding 'enemies' accoutable for their war crimes, and rachael corries murder was a horrible, unforeseealbe accident in the eyes of the us and their fav client state.
 

Deep_Groove

TRIBE Member
Yes, let us "revisit" Rachel Corrie, shall we?


In the wake of a fatal bulldozer incident, irresponsible photo captions and disparate editorial cartoons.

The circumstances of American college student Rachel Corrie's March 16 death beneath an IDF bulldozer in Gaza remain unclear. The key unanswered question: Was Corrie visible and/or audible to the IDF driver just before the accident?

The consumer public got a huge dose of misleading information when Associated Press distributed a photo showing Corrie, standing in (apparently) direct view of the bulldozer driver, dressed in orange and speaking into a megaphone in the direction of the oncoming vehicle.

The AP caption reads: "Rachel was run over Sunday by the bulldozer that she was trying to stop from tearing down a building in the Rafah refugee camp, witnesses said."

The problem with the AP photo caption is that readers are led to believe that this photo depicts the very scene and moment of the accident. The implication is criminal recklessness on the part of the IDF driver.

In fact, however, this photo was NOT taken in the moments before Corrie's death. Joseph Smith, of the pro-Palestinian International Solidarity Movement, was the photographer and wrote a chronological account of the incident (published on pro-Palestinian websites).

Smith says that the photo of Corrie "standing with megaphone" is ascribed to the time period 2pm-4pm. In addition, during this period, Smith notes that the bulldozer "always stopped in time to avoid injuring them."

At the time of Corrie's death (5pm), Smith describes Corrie as "sitting, with arms waving" (no megaphone), and another colleague holding the megaphone from a distance.

Additionally, one key point that Smith does not mention is that the bulldozers shown in the two photos are different types. The later photo is a bulldozer with much smaller windows, and hence reduced visibility.

Read Smith's account at:
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1284.shtml

Thus, the AP photo and caption fails to note the two most essential factors in determining visibility or lack thereof: 1) Corrie was no longer standing, but had changed to a sitting position, and 2) she was no longer in possession of attention-grabbing megaphone.

When publishing such a photo, AP is obligated to explain details of chronology; in the absence of any information, readers presume that since the bulldozer appears 8-10 feet away from Corrie, the photographer must have snapped the picture moments before the bulldozer hit her.

This photo was published by many of the 15,000 media outlets that AP services. And though the accompanying articles may provide clarifying information, a picture is worth a thousand words. In this case, by not providing a caption that clearly counterbalances the easy "misread," AP has misrepresented Corrie's death and contributed to a worldwide slander of the IDF.

Source:
http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/critiques/Rachel_Corrie3_Continued.asp
--------------------------------------------

Congratualtions guys - you've bought into the crudest propaganda there is to buy into.

And as for what the bulldozer was doing when she was killed:

"most of the press (but not FrontPagemag.com) failed to report the presence of extensive tunnels underneath the homes of Rafah, used to deliver arms across the Egyptian border to the terrorist Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Houses involved in such smuggling are demolished as a matter of course. And when Corrie was killed, according to a Israeli Consulate media officer in San Francisco, the bulldozer was not even attempting to raze a home - just remove shrubbery used to hide a tunnel. Rachel Corrie died for nothing. An inquiry into her death found that she and other members of the International Solidarity Movement had engaged in "illegal, irresponsible, and dangerous" behavior. Indeed - by blocking the destruction of these houses, the International Solidarity Movement may have contributed to the arming of terrorists and the murder of innocent people.

Source: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=7361

The best she deserves is a Darwin award for utter stupidity
.
- Deep_Groove
 

derek

TRIBE Member
^^

lol you slay me you heartless bastard.

if it was an accident why did the idf soldier pull away from the scene, and provide no assistance (first aid)? he knew exactly what he did. if it was a true accident they also would have been a legititmate and lengthy investigation. because it's not an accident; it gets swept under the rug, and fizzle out of western media as to not create hysteria among the sheep.

you deserve the darwin award.
 
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Deep_Groove

TRIBE Member
if it was a true accident they also would have been a legititmate and lengthy investigation.

An investigation conducted by a branch of the Israeli judiciary concluded that Rachel Corrie, who was in a closed military zone and interfering with IDF operational activities, was killed by accident.

"The driver at no point saw or heard Corrie," a military source said. "She was standing behind debris which obstructed the view of the driver and the driver had a very limited field of vision due to the protective cage he was working in."

"The driver and his commanders were interrogated extensively over a long period of time with the use of polygraph tests and video evidence. They had no knowledge that she was standing in the path of the tractor. An autopsy of Corrie's body revealed that the cause of death was from falling debris and not from the tractor physically rolling over her," the source stated.

"It was a tragic accident that never should have happened," the source said.

"The International Solidarity Movement, to which Corrie belonged, was directly responsible for illegal behavior and conduct in the area of Corrie's death and their actions directly led to this tragedy," the source concluded. (Jerusalem Post)

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/critiques/Bulldozer_Accident.asp

"IDF concludes Rachel Corrie's death was accidental:[Daily Edition]
TOVAH LAZAROFF. Jerusalem Post. Jerusalem: Jun 27, 2003."

- Deep_Groove
 

~atp~

TRIBE Member
Deep_Groove, your intellectual dishonesty (I cringe calling it intellectual) is no longer astounding to me. It is only sad. Your Pavlovian response to discussions of conflict in the Middle East is not only tiresome, it is pathetic. You are pathetic for compromising the few strands of logical neural pathways left in your brain for what I would describe as fervent insanity.

I could easily win this argument with you, to such a degree that you would probably rather saw off your leg with a dull blade than finish such a conversation. Unfortunately, I haven't the time nor the patience to go over principles that even the most mentally retarded children understand.

In fact, I can only presume that shattering your delicate insanity would only turn you into a blithering idiot (not that this would be a significant change) and leave you with nothing but that cyclical three-step thought process in your head and the slow drip of the feeding pump.
 

derek

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Deep_Groove
An investigation conducted by a branch of the Israeli judiciary concluded that Rachel Corrie, who was in a closed military zone and interfering with IDF operational activities, was killed by accident.

"The driver at no point saw or heard Corrie," a military source said. "She was standing behind debris which obstructed the view of the driver and the driver had a very limited field of vision due to the protective cage he was working in."

"The driver and his commanders were interrogated extensively over a long period of time with the use of polygraph tests and video evidence. They had no knowledge that she was standing in the path of the tractor. An autopsy of Corrie's body revealed that the cause of death was from falling debris and not from the tractor physically rolling over her," the source stated.

"It was a tragic accident that never should have happened," the source said.

"The International Solidarity Movement, to which Corrie belonged, was directly responsible for illegal behavior and conduct in the area of Corrie's death and their actions directly led to this tragedy," the source concluded. (Jerusalem Post)

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/critiques/Bulldozer_Accident.asp

"IDF concludes Rachel Corrie's death was accidental:[Daily Edition]
TOVAH LAZAROFF. Jerusalem Post. Jerusalem: Jun 27, 2003."

- Deep_Groove

well if the idf's own investigation says so it must be true. why would a military source occlude the truth.? i was thinking a independant investigation would be apt, but it seems the idf was up to the task. i mean why would in israeli soilder in a bulldozer with a protective cage obstruting his vision run over a protestor whom he probably viewed a dispisable as the enemy. i

i suppose the pregnant palestinian women who was bulldozed two weeks prior to rachael corrie was a accident too cause there was no investigation at all.

the international solidarity movement had commited illegal acts in the area of the death of racheal corrie. well now the idf has motive at least, even though it was only an accident. the idf never does anything illegal. like break geneva conventions, but then little is known of this because everything time the un puts forward a motion condeming idf illegal activities the us vetos it. i guess this makes it legal. this also explains why irsrael has always refused a un peacekeeping team to come in and moderate the situation. the idf has done nothing wrong, and are only defending themselves. no occlussion necessary.

thanks for setting it straight for me. i don't know what i would've done without you socratic insight and platonic intelligence.

:eek:
 
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Deep_Groove

TRIBE Member
~atp~, your intellectual dishonesty (I cringe calling it intellectual) is no longer astounding to me. It is only sad. Your Pavlovian response to discussions of conflict in the Middle East is not only tiresome, it is pathetic. You are pathetic for compromising the few strands of logical neural pathways left in your brain for what I would describe as fervent insanity.

I could easily win this argument with you, to such a degree that you would probably rather saw off your leg with a dull blade than finish such a conversation. Unfortunately, I haven't the time nor the patience to go over principles that even the most mentally retarded children understand.

In fact, I can only presume that shattering your delicate insanity would only turn you into a blithering idiot (not that this would be a significant change) and leave you with nothing but that cyclical three-step thought process in your head and the slow drip of the feeding pump.

Oh, and I wish I could be as creative with my insults as you.

Seeing as this board is about actual arguments rather than rhetorical flourish, let's move on to more substantial things.

Why, what's this? derek complimenting me?

thanks for setting it straight for me. i don't know what i would've done without you socratic insight and platonic intelligence

*blush*

Why thank you, although I don't feel I deserve such high praise.

Now here's a little thought experiment for you. Tell me what you think.

well if the Palestinian Authority's own investigation says so it must be true. why would a military source occlude the truth.? i was thinking a independant investigation would be apt, but it seems the PAwas up to the task. i mean why would an Islamic Jihad member with a belt of plastic explosives blow up a restaurant full of women and children whom he probably viewed a dispisable as the enemy.

i suppose the pregnant Israeli women who was blown to bits two weeks prior to some other innocent Israeli eating dinner in a restaurant was a accident too cause there was no investigation at all.

the formerly-living Israeli civilians had commited illegal acts in the area of the existence of their state. well now the PA has motive at least, even though it was only an accident. the PA never does anything illegal. like openly fund the murder of women and children, but then little is known of this because everything time the Israeli government puts forward a motion condeming PA illegal activities the entire Arab voting bloc vetos it. i guess this makes it legal. this also explains why the PA has always refused a un peacekeeping team to come in and moderate the situation. the PA has done nothing wrong, and are only defending themselves. no occlussion necessary.
--------------------------------------------

Ever asked yourself what causes your moral backwardness wherein the citizens and institutions of a liberal, democratic state are immediately given the most hostile suspicion, and those of known homophobic, chauvinist religious fanatic mass-murderers are always accepted with the most credulous gullibility?

- Deep_Groove
 

derek

TRIBE Member
^^^

okay but the idf has completely wiped the pa's infrastructure. i'm not sure they could conduct an investigation even if they wanted to.

which if why a UN peacekeeping force needs to be dispatched to moderate the situation.

can you tell me how many un motions have been raised against israel vs. the palistinians?

do you think the idf bulldozing someone's dwelling reduces the amount of terrorism or increases against israel? cause they been doing it for 20 years, and it doesn't seem to work.

why does israel refuse a peacekeeping force? is it because they don't need the help, or because it would hamper their ability to act illegally without impunity?

both sides need moderation from a third party. suicide bombing are wrong, but then so is shelling innocent people to get one 'millitant'. it's a vicious circle where the blame game conitinues endlessly. the only form of attack the palestinians can launch is against civilians as israel has the big guns, and protects key infrastructure (not civillians) well. so when a palestinian blows themselve up in a israeli neighbourhood they are asking the idf for a response. they encourage it because it will bring more suicide bombers to their cause. israel is well aware they when they shell a palestinian neighbourhoood they are instigating a response which inevidably will be carried out against their civilian population.

supporting either of them is folly. they both need to be moderated with the same rules. no more 6 bill dollar grants with 80% going to military expenditure.

unless of course the goal really his to pound the palestinians into oblivion then i stand corrected.

peace,

derek
 
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judge wopner

TRIBE Member
i give claps to deep for bringing up some relevant stuff regarding this issue.

i remeber when it happened and many of these photo's were posted up on the news and this board.

and i dont remember anyone ever clarifying the point that a few shots were renactments.
good point.
im still not sure what to make of this tragedy but its worth noting the suspect nature of the way its been reported.

and with all due respect to ATP, you always come with good articles and what not, but why do reduce everything into a dick swinging" dont get into this argument with me because i will most surely win and your intellect is far inferior to mine you mere mortal " type star trek shit?
 

Jazz

TRIBE Member
the IDF report is a complete fucking joke... it states "Ms Corrie was not run over by an engineering vehicle but rather was struck by a hard object"...

right, so the bulldozer never even touched her... isn't that a convenient finding, it means there's no need to dwell on the difficult (real) questions regarding her death...

wait, what's that? every eye witness account of the incident states that the bulldozer ran right over her? but... but... why would the IDF ignore this, hmmm ... time to put your thinking cap on deep groove! oops, i forgot the dunce cap is permanently attached, nevermind...
 

Jazz

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by judge wopner
and with all due respect to ATP, you always come with good articles and what not, but why do reduce everything into a dick swinging" dont get into this argument with me because i will most surely win and your intellect is far inferior to mine you mere mortal " type star trek shit?

because:

a. his intellect is far superior and he would win this debate

and b. to date deep groove has not displayed any evidence that he even has an intellect, so debating him is comparable to attempting a discussion with your stupidest piece of furniture... probably a stool of some sort, or maybe a throw pillow...
 

~atp~

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by judge wopner

and with all due respect to ATP, you always come with good articles and what not, but why do reduce everything into a dick swinging" dont get into this argument with me because i will most surely win and your intellect is far inferior to mine you mere mortal " type star trek shit?

It's a fair question, but my attitude toward Deep_Groove is by far the exception, not the rule. You might also be thinking of the global warming thread, however my attitude there "A Debate that I will win" is intentional hyperbole...I think lately I've butted heads with a few people mostly because I feel that they aren't being fair or honest to others (or myself).

You see, I'm willing to submit to valid arguments by people like yourself, Adrian, beatnik and occasionally even Ditto, but I'm tired of Deep_Groove...I just get right to the name-calling with him.

He has an expressed hatred for Arabic people, especially Palestinians; I entertained some of his ideas early on when the Politics forum just got off the ground, but he did nothing more than quote other people, spew out hateful comments directed at Palestinians, Arabs, or sympathizers to the Palestinian cause. This tells me that Deep_Groove is unwilling to engage in honest debate, and is motivated by deep-rooted insecurities about his own place in the world and is compensating by trying to tell everyone else why he's right. You're right though. I'm not being fair to him. That's too bad for Deep_Groove.


I don't reduce conversations to "dick-swinging" per se, unless the debater walks in with their dick in their hands. ;)
 

Deep_Groove

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by ~atp~
...I'm tired of Deep_Groove...I just get right to the name-calling with him.

He has an expressed hatred for Arabic people, especially Palestinians; I entertained some of his ideas early on when the Politics forum just got off the ground, but he did nothing more than quote other people, spew out hateful comments directed at Palestinians, Arabs, or sympathizers to the Palestinian cause....

That's just not true. I don't hate anyone. I call it as I see it. Are suicide bombers NOT bigoted, homophobic religious fanatics?

Are they not committing mass murder?

Are the Palestinian Authority leaders NOT funding this mass murder and inciting it with hateful speeches, religious teaching, etc.?

I don't hate Palestinians or Arabs - at least no more than I hate anyone who celebrates the mass murder of random people.

- Deep_Groove
 
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Deep_Groove

TRIBE Member
Here is a perfect distillation of the difference between Israeli and Palestinian societies:

HA'ARETZ Sun., March 07, 2004 Adar 14, 5764

Several dozen ultra-right-wing Kach activists on Saturday held festivities near the Kiryat Arba tomb of Baruch Goldstein, the physician who opened fire on Muslim worshippers at the Tomb of the Patriarchs in the West Bank city of Hebron ten years ago, murdering 29. He was killed during the attack.

The Israel Defense Forces on Saturday declared the area around the tomb a closed military zone, in order to prevent the celebrations from taking place at the site.

Some 50 police officers blocked access to the grave and were guarding the area, enforcing the decree barring anyone from approaching the area.

Police during the event arrested a man who handed out stickers with a picture of Yigal Amir, the murderer of the late Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin. Two Kach activists who handed out a poem inciting against Rabin were also arrested, as well as a third activist who wore a shirt with the inscription "Kahane was right."


Right wing activists held prayers in Hebron area synagogues on Saturday, celebrating Goldstein's attack

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/401713.html
-------------------------------------------------

Meanwhile, across the Green Line, virtually every week, THIS happens with NO interference or condemnation by Arafat, the Palestinian Authority, or ANY notable figure on the Arab side:

b14.jpg


Question your assumptions. Is the "underdog" always right?

- Deep_Groove
 

Deep_Groove

TRIBE Member
Oops that didn't work - this one will do:

p4_eng.jpg


"Hundreds of rejoicing Islamic Jihad supporters took to the streets of Gaza on the night between the 16th and 17th of November after receiving word of the terrorist attack in Hebron Saturday night. 12 Israelis were killed in the attack including nine members of the security forces and three civilians. The demonstrators sounded cries of joy and support for the attack.

It should be noted that the Palestinian Authority did nothing to stop the street celebrations thus showing that they too sympathized with this deadly attack."

- Deep_Groove
 
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Deep_Groove

TRIBE Member
You guys make me laugh. When people laugh at the accidental death of Rachel Corrie, that is "sickening, disgusting" "mental midgets", etc.

When THESE PEOPLE ,laugh at the deaths of innocent people that they themselves have caused:

p4_eng.jpg


endless excuses are made. How hilarious...

- Deep_Groove

P.S. happy St. Pancake day :D
 

~atp~

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Deep_Groove
You guys make me laugh. When people laugh at the accidental death of Rachel Corrie, that is "sickening, disgusting" "mental midgets", etc.

When THESE PEOPLE ,laugh at the deaths of innocent people that they themselves have caused:


endless excuses are made. How hilarious...

- Deep_Groove

P.S. happy St. Pancake day :D


We don't expect dimwits like you to understand anything other than violence. In fact, we expect that you thrive off violence as you're only capable of listening to the animalistic tendencies inside of you, as you lack the facilities for higher conscience.

What does that lame-ass picture of a bunch of (I assume) militant Islamists have to do with Rachel Corrie?

Or are you still giggling, and slobbering at the mouth?


EDIT: Precisely who is excusing the murderers and terrorists of this world, anyway? I'd like to know.
 

Hal-9000

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Deep_Groove
You guys make me laugh. When people laugh at the accidental death of Rachel Corrie, that is "sickening, disgusting" "mental midgets", etc.

Hey motherfucker, those were MY words. You've never seen me make excuses for anyone getting killed. Take your assumptions and go fuck yourself.


P.S. happy St. Pancake day

Congrats, you're no better than those 'savages' you despise.
 

docta seuss

TRIBE Member
the entire israel/palestine thing is both tiresome and sickening.
both sides are awash with disgustingly immoral, irrational, self-righteous, immature, war-mongering fools.

that being said however, i don't see the parallel between islamic militants and rachel corrie.
with regards to this particular incident, i must side with atp & friends.

i don't see how one could possibly try to justify what happened
 
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