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Raw Milk: Should it be against the law?

why not

TRIBE Member
i think it's about time that the "natural medicine" market was regulated properly and these "cures" put to the same tests that any other product is.

there's a lot of snake oil being sold to sick and desperate people, and at this point "natural" practitioners are able to get away with far to many farfetched and in some cases dangerous claims about their products.

as far as GMO products go, i've yet to read anything about this legislation that concerns me on that end.
if i'm missing something, point it out to me (with references to the actual legislation not some hippy interpretation of it)
 

MissBlu

TRIBE Member
why not said:
i think it's about time that the "natural medicine" market was regulated properly and these "cures" put to the same tests that any other product is.

there's a lot of snake oil being sold to sick and desperate people, and at this point "natural" practitioners are able to get away with far to many farfetched and in some cases dangerous claims about their products.

as far as GMO products go, i've yet to read anything about this legislation that concerns me on that end.
if i'm missing something, point it out to me (with references to the actual legislation not some hippy interpretation of it)
i don't understand your post?
how does any of this have to do with allowing people to buy and sell raw milk? or have anything to do with large chemical companies controlling what farmers grow (now that monsanto has been brought in it.)

anyways, glad that you accept GMO products in your markets. your post also shows how uneducated you are in terms on natural medicines.
 

why not

TRIBE Member
MissBlu said:
or have anything to do with large chemical companies controlling what farmers grow (now that monsanto has been brought in it.)
you still haven't explained how this legislation is going to force all farmers to use GMO seeds.

i mention the natural medicine industry, because that's mainly what this bill is about, from what i've read.
 
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why not

TRIBE Member
Boss Hog said:
"hippies". Such a great catch-all. I was waiting for a new McCarthyism.

i was raised by hippies, work for 'hippies', and i've dated my share of people with hippy tendencies.

i know hippies all too well, and i would go insane if i didn't make fun of them.


i don't always agree with ditto much, but in the case of the natural medicine industry, there is a hell of a lot of hypocrisy and snake oil being sold, and i've personally seen enough people in my own life who's health was compromised by their unquestioning faith in naturopaths and their unreasonable distrust of contemporary medicine..
 

Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
I know, I was referring more to the general sentiment of the board and not just your whimsical comment, hippie.
 

erika

TRIBE Member
why not said:
only really legal in france, but people sell it here anyway.

you may have to ask for it, depending on the shop.

and yes, it's far better than what we get here.
et oui c'est si bon consuming some as I write :p
(edit, having just caught up, I should probably sign off as one of those "with hippie tendancies": took homeopathic cold prevention remedies before I came here that worked great, think monsanto is one of the most evil corporations around and so on - BUT I can spell...)
 
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Humanjava

TRIBE Member
Tempo416 said:
i gotta disagree w/ you on the cheese comments. the artisan cheeses coming from BC, Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, PEI and Nova Scotia are some of the best I have tasted and a good percentage of them raw milk. There is no German cheese that could stack up against any or all of them IMHO.

I get French cheese here in Germany not the German pretend to be French. Sure like coffee, meats you can get good stuff but its more a niche market than the norm.
 

workdowntown

TRIBE Member
While i'd normally say "whatever, eat and drink what you like..kill yourselves with it, none of my business" etc there are links with raw milk consumption and the spread of TB so I'm anti-raw milk.

I mean yeah, if your carefree/careless eating can lead to massive infectious disease in the local populace, i'm totally against that. Common sense no?
 
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MissBlu

TRIBE Member
Bass-Invader said:
C-51 doesn't force anyone to buy milk from monsanto, that is just fearmongering bullshit.

no it doesn't, and no one is saying that, however the bill does want to make choices on what people can buy and consume.

i guess their will always be people in the world, who don't care about having the choice, and will just accept what the goverment tells them.
 

MissBlu

TRIBE Member
workdowntown said:
While i'd normally say "whatever, eat and drink what you like..kill yourselves with it, none of my business" etc there are links with raw milk consumption and the spread of TB so I'm anti-raw milk.

I mean yeah, if your carefree/careless eating can lead to massive infectious disease in the local populace, i'm totally against that. Common sense no?

source?
 

workdowntown

TRIBE Member
MissBlu said:
Outbreak of TB linked to raw milk products in NY = dead baby

.pdf from vetmed.ucdavis warning the of mycobacterium bovis aka bovine TB (transmissible to humans of course)

pubmed article: The epidemiology of raw milk-associated foodborne disease outbreaks reported in the United States, 1973 through 1992.

TB and raw milk links in russia via the WHO


Brucellosis aka "malta fever" also linked to raw milk


NYC.GOV dept of health and mental hygiene

The sources are many, just google TB and raw milk to see the numerous countries, states and councils who ban raw milk due to legitimate health concerns eg. Tuberculosis, salmonellosis, listeriosis, E.Coli 0157. I mean the very reason we pasteurise milk is to get rid of bovine TB and all the other transmissible infectious diseases.

Raw milk aficionados point to a lancet article from 1937 (or the numerous other studies oft quoted from the 30s) that states it helps with TB resistance but let's face it, clutching straws at a very old article is weak, wishful thinking pseudoscience.

Here's a modern article from the lancet, note total lack of recommending raw milk for anything.

"M bovis infection in human beings was important in the late 19th and early 20th centuries,2 and accounted for a substantial portion of human tuberculosis in Europe. With implementation of pasteurisation laws and eradication programmes in cattle, reports of human M bovis infection decreased."
Password and username for the lancet are the same: Rurafker


Is that enough sources for you? I have a lot more. ;)
 

zoo

TRIBE Member
MissBlu said:
no it doesn't, and no one is saying that, however the bill does want to make choices on what people can buy and consume.
it regulates what can and can't be sold as a drug or treatment. this is not a bad thing. we have standards in many aspects of our society to benefit us, not hinder us.

imagine if someone protested the engineering and safety standards bodies because they were imposing too many restrictions on the types of cars they could buy, or the bridges they could use.

it's pretty much the same issue here.

from the bill itself:

"2.3 The purpose of this Act is to protect and promote the health and safety of the public and encourage accurate and consistent product representation by prohibiting and regulating certain activities in relation to foods, therapeutic products and cosmetics."

what about the above can anyone disagree with? and if you want to eat dandelions to cure headaches, you can still do so, you just won't be able to buy it in the pharmacy anymore.

i just looked at http://www.stopc51.com/

what a hillarious piece of BS.

if people want to market drugs as therapies, show some science/clinical trials as proof, or stfu.
 
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EffinHard

TRIBE Member
why not said:
i think it's about time that the "natural medicine" market was regulated properly and these "cures" put to the same tests that any other product is.

there's a lot of snake oil being sold to sick and desperate people, and at this point "natural" practitioners are able to get away with far to many farfetched and in some cases dangerous claims about their products.
I've seen every "cure for cancer" in the book - in liquid "natural" form. regulations are a necessity.
 

MissBlu

TRIBE Member
zoo said:
it regulates what can and can't be sold as a drug or treatment. this is not a bad thing. we have standards in many aspects of our society to benefit us, not hinder us.

imagine if someone protested the engineering and safety standards bodies because they were imposing too many restrictions on the types of cars they could buy, or the bridges they could use.

it's pretty much the same issue here.

from the bill itself:

"2.3 The purpose of this Act is to protect and promote the health and safety of the public and encourage accurate and consistent product representation by prohibiting and regulating certain activities in relation to foods, therapeutic products and cosmetics."

what about the above can anyone disagree with? and if you want to eat dandelions to cure headaches, you can still do so, you just won't be able to buy it in the pharmacy anymore.

i just looked at http://www.stopc51.com/

what a hillarious piece of BS.

if people want to market drugs as therapies, show some science/clinical trials as proof, or stfu.

there are definitely parts of C51 that make sense, however it could potentially hinder the availability of vitamins, etc.

big pharma also has a hand in this.




tribe was probably a bad place to post the original article anyway.
 

workdowntown

TRIBE Member
zoo said:
if people want to market drugs as therapies, show some science/clinical trials as proof, or stfu.
This. Also add large scale peer review before human consumption.

Alt. health really bothers me, the few useful things that come from it are vastly outnumbered by the psuedoscientific, woo-woo crap about energy and enzymes these days or the "it's natural so it's better" crowd. :eyeroll:
 
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MissBlu

TRIBE Member
workdowntown said:
This. Also add large scale peer review before human consumption.

Alt. health really bothers me, the few useful things that come from it are vastly outnumbered by the psuedoscientific, woo-woo crap about energy and enzymes these days or the "it's natural so it's better" crowd. :eyeroll:
there is nothing wrong with having a large scale peer review, and imo, i see nothing wrong with it.

many natural remedies have been around for centuries. also, where do you think many pharma drugs came from?

people are uneducated about alternative health care, and choose what they want to hear. if people choose to be closed minded about it, whatever. no one is asking anyone to let them run health care.

there are plenty of quack MD's, just as there are in alternative medicine.

it's easy for people to paint an ignorant picture when they don't know.
 

MissBlu

TRIBE Member
Boss Hog said:
What about modified foods that have had no long term testing but are widely available to consumers?
don't say anything about that! the gov. says it's okay! it must be!
 

workdowntown

TRIBE Member
Boss Hog said:
What about modified foods that have had no long term testing but are widely available to consumers?
Apples and oranges. Raw milk is known to spread infectious disease, the GM crops have shown little to no side-effects as of yet.

I don't think it's right that the GM genie is out of the bottle but there's not really any way to cap it again when even the seeds for our most basic grais come from altered genetic strains these days.
 

MissBlu

TRIBE Member
workdowntown said:
Apples and oranges. Raw milk is known to spread infectious disease, the GM crops have shown little to no side-effects as of yet.

I don't think it's right that the GM genie is out of the bottle but there's not really any way to cap it again when even the seeds for our most basic grais come from altered genetic strains these days.
not all of them. i don't grow any GM veggies, etc. in my garden. it can be done.
 
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