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RAPS Gripe Session: The Final Episode

Discussion in 'TRIBE Main Forum' started by KickIT, Mar 22, 2002.

  1. KickIT

    KickIT TRIBE Member

    [grip]Okay, now that this fuck'en farce of a season is now winding down, we can now start looking towards next season. I think its safe to say that there is no hope we'll make the playoffs and that we're heading towards a lottery pick. I hope that Lenny does the honourable thing, realize he's past his prime and that laid back self motivating coaching no longer works in today's NBA and retire from basketball.

    The first 10 picks in this years draft looks promising, I hope that Grunwald fires his current scouts and gets scouts that can actually find talent that suits our team. If we can land a 2 or 3 in the draft, I'll be more than happy.

    Also in the news, it appears that the Raptors are making a big push towards landing Van Gundy. We would obviously have to compensate the Knicks but it'll be worth it. We need a motivator to get these non-chalante crybabies movitated, get them back to the fundamentals and running NBA quality offense and DFENSE! As I see it, only a Larry Brown retirement will stop Van Gundy from coaching in the Tdot next year.

    And the final piece of good news I received this morning. It does appear the Raps are throwing in the towel for the season and moving on. Thank god this debacle in coming to a close [/gripe]

  2. tommysmalls

    tommysmalls TRIBE Member

    the best thing about not making the playoffs is the chance of getting a great draft pick. one thing that bugs me is that we might not be able to keep keon next year - that sign and trade deal to dump keon and get penny hardaway scares the shit outta me....why not just give the big bucks penny's getting to keon.

    KEEP KEON!!!
  3. tommysmalls

    tommysmalls TRIBE Member

    ..and grunwalds a smart guy - if its possible to shake up the team by replace wilkins with van gundy, he'll do it..

    i think thats what this team needs!!
  4. KickIT

    KickIT TRIBE Member

    I'd like to see Keon stay but I don't wanna see Glen make the same mistake of overpaying players like he did for JYD and Alvin. It only screws us in the long run. Plus demand for Keon is huge, if we could deal him for a better all round player, I say do it.

  5. fleaflo

    fleaflo TRIBE Member

    Reporter:"Keon, what'd you do all summer"
    Keon:"I played golf"

    Keon's upside is insane. He could make us all forget about(ok, just let go of) Tracy McGrady...if he wanted to.

    A Penny Hardaway deal would be a disaster, cause physically he's done. Not to mention the fact that he's just like Carter with his 'I don't want to be a leader attitude'. Boooooooo! Anyone remember the year that he and Shaq played together on the Magic and Shaq went down for the first half of the season? Penny was considered the runaway MVP that season, but then Shaq came baq and Penny turned into a little biatch.

    So sad the way this season has crashed and burned. I still have tix for the April game vs the Nets and I'm still pumped for it.
  6. KickIT

    KickIT TRIBE Member

    This summer's predictions:

    1. Lenny retires
    2. Dream retires
    3. Toronto signs Van Gundy to 4 year deal. Gives New York cash and 2002 lottery pick
    4. Chris Childs - adios sucker! good luck on the free agent market.
    5. Tracy Murray/Keon Clarke/M N'djaye traded for ???
    6. Raps acquire Van Gundy fav. Charlie Ward for 2nd round pick

  7. tommysmalls

    tommysmalls TRIBE Member

    what toronto needs right now is a point gaurd - alvin williams might be the worst starting point gaurd in the league....even worse than childs - at least childs knows how to pass the ball.
  8. sentence

    sentence TRIBE Promoter

    Here's my dream trade for the summer>>

    Alvin + Mo Pete for Gary Payton

    we could even toss in Murray and/or Yogi

    any thoughts??

    I know Mo Pete has potential but he needs a couple more years to develop and we need a point guard NOW!!
  9. doughboy

    doughboy TRIBE Member

    There are quite a few options for the Raptors in the free agent market and through the draft this year to hopefully improve the team. They are solid at SG and PF, and could use help at PG, SF, and C.


    PG prospects

    Jacque Vaughn, 6-1, 190, Kansas, 5 years experience

    23.1 mins, 6.0 pts, 4.5 ast, 2.1 reb, 45.5 FG%, 39.0 3pt%, 82.5 FT%

    - good floor leader with quickness, height, and vision who could average 10.0 pts, 8.0 assists and 4.0 rebs with about 35 mins
    - reasonably inexpensive; accustomed to the backup role

    Travis Best, 5-11, 180, Georgia Tech, 7 years experience

    23.3 mins, 7.7 pts, 4.2 ast, 1.9 reb, 44.7 FG%, 38.0 3pt%, 87.8 FT%

    - shorter than average, but good pass first point who could average 12.0 pts, 7.0 ast, 3.0 reb with 35 mins of floor time
    - starting to shine for Chicago; used to backup role

    Mike Bibby, 6-1, 190, Arizona, 4 years experience

    33.3 mins, 13.9 pts, 5.0 ast, 2.8 reb, 45.5 FG%, 37.5 3pt%, 82.3 FT%

    - averaging fewer assists than normal on a team with big men with good passing skils, and could average 8.0 per game
    - will likely stay with Sacramento; might be too expensive

    SF prospects

    Devean George, 6-8, 220, Augsburg, 3 years experience

    21.4 mins, 7.1 pts, 3.7 reb, 41.5 FG%, 37.3 3pt%, 67.9 FT%

    - needs to improve shooting percentages, but could contribute 12.0 pts, 6.0 rebs, and 3.0 ast in 35 mins
    - could be too expensive for LA, so he might be available

    Ricky Davis, 6-7, 197, Iowa, 4 years experience

    21.9 mins, 9.8 pts, 2.8 reb, 2.1 ast, 45.9 FG%, 33.3 3pt%, 75.0 FT%

    - given the chance to contribute, he could be the second scoring option the Raptors need with 17.0 pts, 5.0 reb, 3.5 ast per 35 min
    - still playing under his rookie contract, so his value on the open market is highly subject to demand

    Matt Harpring, 6-7, 231, Georgia Tech, 4 years experience

    31.3 mins, 11.9 pts, 6.8 reb, 46.4 FG%, 29.3 3pt%, 75.4 FT%

    - has proven to be a solid contributor in Philadelphia and will likely want to remain there
    - still playing under rookie contract; value determined by demand

    Donyell Marshall, 6-9, 230, Connecticut, 8 years experience

    31.4 mins, 15.2 pts, 7.7 reb, 1.2 blk, 52.6 FG%, 30.6 3pt%, 69.8 FT%

    - might be available via a sign and trade, or outright through free agency due to the emergence of Andrei Kirilenko
    - currently making about $7 million per season; would only be a viable option for the Raptors through a sign and trade

    Rashard Lewis, 6-10, 215, High School, 4 years experience

    36.5 mins, 16.8 pts, 6.8 reb, 1.7 ast, 46.5 FG%, 38.7 3pt%, 81.5 FT%

    - looked at TO the last time he was an FA, and could fill the second scorer role with the Raps
    - would have to come to TO via a sign and trade because he'll be asking for too much to sign outright

    C prospects

    Radoslav Nesterovic, 7-0, 248, Foreign Prospect, 4 years exp

    26.6 mins, 8.2 pts, 6.4 reb, 1.3 blk, 49.1 FG%, 53.3 FT%

    - a serviceable big man who could contribute 12.0 pts, 8.0 reb, 2.0 blk with 35 mins of playing time
    - poor FT shooter who is under his rookie contract

    Ruben Boumtje, 7-0, 245, Georgetown, 1 year experience

    8.2 mins, 1.3 pts, 1.9 reb, 0.50 blk, 40.0 FG%, 50.0 FT%

    - won't be able to provide as a starter at this point
    - needs to improve shooting percentages
    - similar to Mamadou N'diaye without the experience

    Vladimir Stepania, 7-0, 236, Foreign Prospect, 4 years exp

    12.6 mins, 4.0 pts, 3.9 reb, 0.65 blk, 45.9 FG%, 51.3 FT%

    - needs to improve shooting percentages
    - could contribute 10 pts, 10 rebs, 1.5 blk in 35 mins
    - would come cheap and could be a reliable back up

    Michael Olowokandi, 7-0, 270, Pacific, 4 years experience

    30.8 mins, 9.7 pts, 8.9 reb, 1.82 blk, 42.0 FG%, 62.7 FT%

    - needs to improve shooting percentages
    - good contributor, but not spectacular
    - could be available for about $5 million per season

    2002 NBA Draft

    PG prospects

    Frank Williams, 6-3, 205, Illinois, Jr.

    32.4 mins, 15.8 pts, 4.2 ast, 4.7 reb, 38.0 FG%, 30.2 3pt%, 81.2 FT%

    - very poor FG and 3pt %
    - some question his desire
    - good height and court awareness

    Juan Carlos Navarro, 6-4, 193, Foreign Prospect

    22.5 mins, 11.4 pts, 2.4 ast, 1.9 reb, 50.0 FG%, 32.0 3pt%, 83.0 FT%

    - good defender who likes to hustle
    - would have to develop PG skills to provide in the NBA

    SF prospects

    Jared Jefferies, 6-9, 230, Indiana, Soph.

    32.4 mins, 15.9 pts, 7.8 reb, 2.1 ast, 46.3 FG%, 41.4 3pt%, 68.7 FT%

    - high basketball IQ player who can run the floor, as well as handle and pass the ball well
    - played spectacularly against Duke on Thursday night

    Caron Butler, 6-7, 235, Connecticut, Soph.

    35.0 mins, 19.7 pts, 7.4 reb, 2.7 ast, 48.6 FG%, 34.0 3pt%, 76.2 FT%

    - might stay in school based on the success of UConn
    - might be a bit of a tweener in the NBA
    - good, solid player with fundamental skills

    C prospects

    Curtis Borchardt, 7-0, 230, Stanford, Jr.

    30.8 mins, 16.5 pts, 11.2 reb, 2.9 blk, 58.1 FG%, 66.5 FT%

    - might stay in school
    - would provide solidy in the NBA

    Chris Marcus, 7-1, 285, Western Kentucky, Sr.

    24.7 mins, 15.7 pts, 9.4 reb, 2.3 blk, 55.0 FG%, 69.7 FT%

    - huge body who can bang inside
    - very dedicated to working on his game
    - hasn't been playing basketball for very long, but has the size and determination to become an excellent pro center
  10. rudebwoy

    rudebwoy TRIBE Member

    I believe you forgot a Boumtje...Ruben Boumtje Boumtje is the best name in basketball right up there with Koko Archibong from Penn University and Lawrence Funderburk from Sacremento...

    as for vince, i guess that's what you get when you draft a wuss who went to a soccer school like UNC...alot of whining and crying...par for the course...

  11. Wunderbar

    Wunderbar TRIBE Member

    How to fix the Raptors:

    Fire Wilkens/Hire Van Gundy: The Raptors are a poorly coached team and it's reflected in the shot clock expirations, the baskets against off of inbounds passes, the slow starts to third quarters because of inadequate halftime adjustments and the fact that they too often settle for low percentage, fade away jump shots.

    Retain Keon and Childs: Both Keon and Childs are valuable members of the team and have important roles to play. Under Van Gundy's tutelage, Keon can be a star in this league.

    Trade Tracy Murray: He is an ugly man and his game is even uglier. He should be playing in Europe.

    I think the talent is pretty much in place. They just have to learn to play defence and to take smarter shots on offence.
    In short, they need someone who can coach.

    Given the current talent on the roster, the starting lineup should be:

    Alvin Williams-PG
    Dell Curry-SG
    Vince Carter-SF
    Keon Clark-PF
    Antonio Davis-C


    Chris Childs- backup PG/SG
    Hakeem Olajuwon-backup C
    Jerome Williams-backup SF/PF
    Eric Montross-2nd backup C
    Yogi Stewart-backup PF

    Tracy, Mammadou and Michael Bradley: GARBAGE TIME!

    Curry should be the starting PG because of his remarkable 3 point shooting ability. He is a weapon and is not being used to his full potential. Hakeem and Antonio should not be on the court at the same time because they essentially play the same offensive game and it means one of them will be forced into an uncomfortable position. Yogi can play and Lenny won't give him the time of day. JYD and childs provide excellent energy [especially on D] off the bench and the Raps don't lose anything when they're in the game
  12. rudebwoy

    rudebwoy TRIBE Member

    and rashard lewis would be a great pick up...hes got a little attitude, which the raps desperatly need, hes a legit 2nd scorer, and he shows some loyalty...after the 99-00 season, he was a free agent, and toronto offered him $56/six years, but he liked how they sonics showed him some loyalty, so he stuck around....

  13. KickIT

    KickIT TRIBE Member

    You're kidding right? I'll give you that Alvin didn't have the greatest year but what no one knows is this kid has been through hell and back and yet he hasn't missed a game. He can barely walk on off days because both his knees are fucked. His back is fucked and he's been through serious personal problems with his father who's been hospitalized and near death all season. Yet he's battled on for the team unlike some cry baby mamma's boys on the team.

    Childs? Pfftt! Let's see Chris is shooting a healthy 30% from the field this year. His defense is good at times, but that only compensates for the 2-3 absolutely stupid ass turnovers he gives up every time he plays. Get rid of him, he's fuck'en useless.

    If we could package Childs, Tracey/Dell, Montross for VanExel do it up! Dallas will unload his contract for nothing this summer. Alvin could slide to the 2, Vince to 3 and we're fuck'en set.

  14. smile

    smile TRIBE Member

    i agree that vince is nothing but a crybaby mamma's boy. let him sit on his ass for the rest of the season with a towel on his head while his moms kisses his boo-boo's.

    oh man, that kid is HOT. totally amazing player. judging by how well sac is doing this season though, i think he's probably going to stay there.

    lenny needs to go. i don't know how much better van gundy's gonna be though. the knicks weren't exactly a championship calibre team when he was around.

    KEEP KEON. that guy just needs the right combination of guys to help him out on the floor and he'll be INCREDIBLE. get rid of murray and childs.
  15. C-NiCE

    C-NiCE TRIBE Promoter

    Wow, this season has just gone to shit hasn't it? I totally agree with getting rid of Wilkens. The Raps 1-2-2 motion offence looked archaic compared to some of the better offences run by other teams. Did you see how Sacramento just ran circles around us? Now those guys can play. Our D lacked any signs of intensity and no one helped each other out there on a consistent 48 minute basis. Can't win many games with the kind of effort this team showed during their losing streak. Teams could pretty much get any shot they wanted it seemed.

    In terms of player moves, we definitely have to keep Keon. This guy is gonna be great next year with a solid centre behind him. The dream looked terrible this year when he wasn't injured and I think he should retire. Just a pale immitation of his former self, it's time. Tracy Murray hardly saw the floor in the past month so its safe to say he is gone. Del can still drop the trey but he is a liability on D so I think his time is done as well. I think the raps need some players who can play some perimiter D and a second scorer. Mo Pete didn't really step up this year like I thought he would and Antonio is too inconsitent with his offence. Maybe Keon can become that second option? A decent centre would also be nice if The Dream retires.

    I am very dissapointed with the way this season has turned out and I hope someone takes the fall for this farce of a season. With all the hype around the signings last year and the talent we had, everyone was expecting a much better effort. Except all we got all year were excuses, excuses and more excuses. The Raps need to make some major moves this summer or they are going to lose a shit load of fans. Remember the Jays?

  16. Stormshadow

    Stormshadow TRIBE Member

    Alvin is the only one on the team with heart. He plays full tilt day-in and day-out, injured or not. We need to keep him.
  17. sentence

    sentence TRIBE Promoter

    I agree that Alvin has heart but he is an awful point guard. He's no good at recognizing fast break opportunities and he makes bad decisions all the time. I'll cut him a little slack this year for playing banged up and 'cause he's young and maybe just simply, he didn't have his best year, but he is not the guy to lead this team to a championship.
  18. Muffdiver

    Muffdiver TRIBE Member

    Am I the only guy that thinks the biggest thing the Raptor's have been missing all year is Charles Oakley??

    It seems weird that the team has played so bad this year after such a great year last year.I think they miss Oakley because even though he could be an ass sometime,he seemed to be the one that would give these guys a kick in the ass when they didn't play well or try hard night in and night out.Oakley would have never put up with the bullshit on this team this year.

    I think the best example of this hole in the roster was very evident when the Raptor's played Chicago earlier this year and Oak sent Vince to the floor with an elbow.No one stepped up and I think that was Oakley's way of showing us how much he was going to be missed.No one would have pulled that shit on Vince last year while Oak man was in the line up because he would have shoved the ball down his throat..

    It's not that I am a huge Charles Oakley fan by any means but it sure seemed like we have missed him immensely this season..
  19. sentence

    sentence TRIBE Promoter

    I agree and disagree muff. I think the raps do need someone to get in their face and challenge them play at their best but I dont think that guy needs to be Oak. It should be the coach getting in people's faces and clearly Lenny aint doin it. I do believe we're better off without Oakley. That "knucklehead" just has a bad attitude.
  20. Nesta

    Nesta TRIBE Member

    what about antonio davis? the guy has been a force over the last 20 games or so. he really has made up for the slow start he had. he leaves everything on the court, no doubt.
  21. CC

    CC TRIBE Member

    i would like to see spreewell in TO. i think he could shake shit up. the knicks want to do something drastic, i can just feel it.

    spreewell is a good team player, and if you don't watch him, he can single-handly destroy a team

    or i wonder what it would be like to have nash in TO? don't think it will ever happen, but it would be a nice thought.


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