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Québec Proposes Ban on Religious Symbols in Publically Owned Workplaces

acheron

TRIBE Member
Crucifixes, Stars of David, Hijab, Yarmulkes, Kirpans... all of it out the window in public offices or other workplaces, including provincially run daycares, permit offices, post offices, etc.

I'm not religious so I really don't care one way or the other. The symbols are just social club affiliations to me. But there are clearly a lot of people who think wearing their religion on their sleeve is a god-given right.

The problem I see with this is that there are many forms of religious symbolism that are worn that are essentially entire outfits. I mean, you can tell a Hasidic Jew to take off his hat in doors but what about his beard or side curls? What about henna tattoos? Or Bindi? Or the Burqa, a head-to-toe covering? Is Quebec proposing to have change rooms at the entrance to every public building? What about outdoor workplaces that are amorphous like roadworks?

This will likely get bogged down in the nitty-gritty, declared impractical - before a charter challenge even has time to make it to the courts.
 

praktik

TRIBE Member
Another chapter in the book of "Shit Quebec does to alienate the rest of Canada"

but its instructive to tie this back to the french founding of their province - its this French tradition of the role of religion vis a vis the state that's rearing its head.... France of course makes headlines all the time from similar shit. Can the quebeckers help themselves or is this just Frenchie Autopilot?

Also: french people REALLY hate muslims.... actual quote from dinner in MTL w/ my quebecker friend's family, trophy quebecoise says:

"Je ne suis pas raciste - sauf pour les muslements"
 

skin deep

TRIBE Member
Also: french people REALLY hate muslims.... actual quote from dinner in MTL w/ my quebecker friend's family, trophy quebecoise says:

"Je ne suis pas raciste - sauf pour les muslements"
Much like the Roma population in Europe - "I'm not racist, I only hate gypsies..." gross.
 
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Mr. Magyar

TRIBE Member
This will likely get bogged down in the nitty-gritty, declared impractical - before a charter challenge even has time to make it to the courts.
The National Assembly will just insert section 33 of the Charter into the law to avoid a court challenge. In any case, I always get a good laugh out of English Canada because they can't seem to think straight whenever Quebec is mentioned.
 
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mute79

TRIBE Member
I agree w/ QC on this. What bothers me about religious symbols and attire is that it projects the wearer as having moral superiority over others. Plus, there is this sense of entitlement that one has when wearing religious clothing or symbols that it is fine to preach religious non-sense to others.

By the same token, why is it socially acceptable for religious groups to buy ad space in public places and attempt to recruit people into their sects, yet it is not acceptable for atheists? Recall a few years ago when TTC rejected having atheist ads on public transit.

Since religious orientation is an entirely personal thing, it should remain within the confines of peoples' homes or places of worship.
 

erika

TRIBE Member
I'm of two minds on this:
On the one hand, religious freedom is important.
On the other, I don't understand the need to advertise one's religious beliefs through visible signs.
A great french book on that is written by a muslim; it's called "Lettre a ma fille qui veut porter le voile."

Now, having said that, if they want to get rid of religious symbols in Quebec, they have to get rid of the giant crucifix in the National Assembly too - you can't have it both ways!
 

Spinsah

TRIBE Member
I agree w/ QC on this. What bothers me about religious symbols and attire is that it projects the wearer as having moral superiority over others. Plus, there is this sense of entitlement that one has when wearing religious clothing or symbols that it is fine to preach religious non-sense to others.

By the same token, why is it socially acceptable for religious groups to buy ad space in public places and attempt to recruit people into their sects, yet it is not acceptable for atheists? Recall a few years ago when TTC rejected having atheist ads on public transit.

Since religious orientation is an entirely personal thing, it should remain within the confines of peoples' homes or places of worship.
It's an issue of personal freedom and liberty and the limits of both. I believe one should be free to express their religious beliefs as long as they are not imposed upon me, or funded directly with my tax dollars (why aren't we talking about public funding of catholic boards here in Ontario?).

If someone, a public servant or otherwise, wishes to wear a crucifix or a burka to work - that doesn't impose their religion upon me - I support their right to do so. Banning those expressions marginalizes groups of people, which is counter-productive to fostering a pluralist multicultural society - and make no mistake about it, that is exactly what the PQ intends.
 
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Spinsah

TRIBE Member
I'm of two minds on this:
On the one hand, religious freedom is important.
On the other, I don't understand the need to advertise one's religious beliefs through visible signs.
Those two statements are not mutually exclusive - they are compatible.

:)
 
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videotronic

TRIBE Member
i wonder if they're going to change the names of all the streets from "st. whatever" and "ste. whatever" to something else.

fucking quebec...probably one of the most influenced-by-religion in north america and they try to pull this manoeuvre..
 

spaboy

TRIBE Member
The National Assembly should remove the cross ASAP to show they are committed to this. We'll see how much the Roman Catholics really want it. I don't fully disagree with the idea.
 

Mr. Magyar

TRIBE Member
It's an issue of personal freedom and liberty and the limits of both. I believe one should be free to express their religious beliefs as long as they are not imposed upon me, or funded directly with my tax dollars (why aren't we talking about public funding of catholic boards here in Ontario?).

If someone, a public servant or otherwise, wishes to wear a crucifix or a burka to work - that doesn't impose their religion upon me - I support their right to do so. Banning those expressions marginalizes groups of people, which is counter-productive to fostering a pluralist multicultural society - and make no mistake about it, that is exactly what the PQ intends.
The funding of Catholic schools is constitutionally protected, so it's a moot point. Where Quebec's ban on religious symbols is concerned, the province would only prohibit employees in public workplaces from wearing them. Again, English Canada gets mindlessly whipped up whenever they hear the word "Quebec."
 
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Spinsah

TRIBE Member
The funding of Catholic schools is constitutionally protected, so it's a moot point.
I don't think it's a moot point at all. The constitution was altered after the Quiet Revolution in Quebec to allow for the elimination of publicly funded Catholic boards. Same in Newfoundland even more recently. In fact, of the 12 times the constitution has been amended 6 of them were related to religious schooling. At this point, it's doesn't require much more than vote in the legislature. What makes this juncture in confederation so contradictory in my opinion, is that Ontario is one of the few places in the Western world where a single religious school system is funded alongside public schools with tax dollars. Ironically, the whole reason that provision in the constitution existed in the first place, namely to protect the minority and marginalized Catholics in Quebec, has been amended by that province, a portion of which are now rabble raising to eliminate any religious symbols in public places or worn by public servants. Mercy!

Where Quebec's ban on religious symbols is concerned, the province would only prohibit employees in public workplaces from wearing them.
You don't see a problem with that? Doctors shouldn't be allowed to wear turbans? A teacher shouldn't be allowed to wear a crucifix around his neck? A clerk shouldn't be able to wear niqab? This all serves a purpose to alienate and other those in Quebec who are not white and francophone, which is already what the public service is disproportionately composed of there. And that's exactly the point. It's an affront against pluralism.

Again, English Canada gets mindlessly whipped up whenever they hear the word "Quebec."
I don't think it's mindless at all, I think many people are being very considered, in Quebec and the ROC. I lived in Quebec for several years fairly recently, and still have many friends there. The most passionate statements against this move are coming from them regardless if they are anglophone or francophone.

I'll share a Facebook quote from a friend who has lived in Quebec all her life and completed advanced studies at several French universities.

Quebec; you can try to claim your independence but deep down, you're a lost soul with abandonment issues. If you weren't, you wouldn't launch a witch hunt to assert your identity. You would open your eyes and see how much everyone that lives here truly wants to be here; not to burden those that lay claim to moral or political superiority, but to forge a brighter future with them.
The thread continues in French.
 

KickIT

TRIBE Member
Not gonna lie, not a fan of the niqab and what it symbolizes. The hijab, I don't have as much of a problem with.
 

Spinsah

TRIBE Member
That's an entirely fair position, but would you go so far as to ban it in public or ban public servants from wearing it?
 

KickIT

TRIBE Member
I would say yes. It is contrary to Canadian values, especially in our assertion that men and women are equal. Wearing a Niqab while serving as an agent of Canada sends a mixed signal. If they choose to wear one on their off hours, that's fine.

I still find it hard to swallow that a woman, knowing that she should not worry about persecution would still choose to wear one and/or her family would still force her to wear one. If they believe in wahabism so much, why move here in the first place?
 
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