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Q: Group Assignments

Jeremy Jive

TRIBE Member
Scenario.

Say you are in a group project scenario that is worth 30% of your final mark. In the analyis paper there are four group members. One of which is hardly in class, and hard to get a hold of. They have received an early email asking them what they are going to contribute and then another email two days before the paper was due asking if they had done anything yet?

Now here it is. This person has each group members email address and cellphone numbers. They were speaking on the phone with one member four days before the due date and were told to call another member of the group to figure out what they could contribute at this late point. They chose not to call and then the group member emails one of us at 5PM the day the paper is due asking what they can contribute. The paper had already been completed, proofed and submitted via email.

Would you hand in the paper with their name on it and would you feel bad for not including their name on the paper if you didn't?

This is why I hate group work.
 

SJN

TRIBE Member
I'd have warned them a few days before the due date that if they didn't respond that their name would be left off the submission
 

Booty Bits

TRIBE Member
SJN said:
I'd have warned them a few days before the due date that if they didn't respond that their name would be left off the submission
yeah, i think there needs to be an explicit warning re: handing it in without their name on it, but after that its fair game.
 

Jeremy Jive

TRIBE Member
^^^^ I don't think that at a grown age you can expect people to hold your hand along. He was warned by another group member verbally. Beyond that he received 3 written messages via email asking if how he was going to contribute.

My problem is that I didn't really feel like sharing out another 90%+ mark for on a 32 page report with someone who didn't contribute or respond to contact.
 

nikki.classics

TRIBE Member
I hate group work because I'm a huge pushover and shit like that happens to me all the time. I don't think I've ever been in a situation where a member did absolutely nothing though. Don't put there name on it, or maybe have a talk with the prof/t.a?
 
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dyad

TRIBE Member
Not including the name can sometimes reflect badly on you because profs see group work as your ability to work with people. even though he/she's being a wankster the prof may see it as your inability to work with him/her. so document all your attempts to contact the person if you are leaving their name off and they decide to take it up with the prof.
 

Cydome

TRIBE Member
Unless they have an excuse along the lines of “my mother just died/wife just left me/just found out I have cancer” I’d be inclined to leave their name off the assignment…
 

I_bRAD

TRIBE Member
I think group assignments are meant to be a lesson simulating the real world.

Don't forget- you'll get the 90% whether or not he participated so you're good.

To compare this scenario to the real world, you're the one working late every night and never getting a raise while the guy who didn't do anything is your boss. Get used to it or learn how to work the system.
 

SJN

TRIBE Member
Jeremy Jive said:
^^^^ I don't think that at a grown age you can expect people to hold your hand along. He was warned by another group member verbally. Beyond that he received 3 written messages via email asking if how he was going to contribute.

My problem is that I didn't really feel like sharing out another 90%+ mark for on a 32 page report with someone who didn't contribute or respond to contact.
Welcome to real life. Sometimes people get credit where it isn't due, and vice-versa.

You have to give some thought to what might happen if you hand it in without his name, and he decides to kick up a fuss. If it actually came to it, could you actually prove he didn't offer to contribute?
 

kuba

TRIBE Member
Jeremy Jive said:
Scenario.


Would you hand in the paper with their name on it and would you feel bad for not including their name on the paper if you didn't?

This is why I hate group work.
Honestly, this is how it works in the real world, too. People slack off, others pick up the work, and everybody gets commended or ridiculed. Honestly, I wouldn't feel bad per-se in not handing in their name, but what for? The way I see it is that people all pay for education, and whatever they take out of it is their business. If you take their name off, you might start something that might bite u in the ass later on. might not be worth it, imho.
 
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Jeremy Jive

TRIBE Member
Ahhh see here is the kicker. I had a feeling this was going to happen and I emailed the teacher a week before it was due. I asked if it would be alright if we were to work in a smaller group because of an uneven contribution from some unmentioned members.

His reply was that usually he would say no as it was a 'group assignment' but he knew who was actually writting it and who wasn't. He gave us permission to work alone or in a smaller group.

Bases were covered.

I just got off the phone with the member who told him to contact the group and apparently the discussion included him saying that he didn't want to do the work and wanted the other member to email him what he had done so he could reword it as his contribution. The other member said no.

Now I really don't feel bad.
 

zoo

TRIBE Member
You write his name on it when submitting, if you had formally arranged this group. A group is a group, regardless if whether there are slackers or not.

You can (should) also tell your slacking group mate that this type of behaviour is not acceptable in the future, and that he/she should confess to the proffessor their lack of contribution. If this slacking person won't do work at all, you should ask the professor if you can abandon him/her.
 

Jeremy Jive

TRIBE Member
I guess we can email the teacher and let him know the situation. If he wants to give him the marks then that is his discretion.

It's no wonder people can get through the education system and still be uneducated. All you'd have to do is hide in a group where everyone is too afraid to stand up against you. Then you can just coast along through.

I don't really feel like covering for people who don't contribute in class or at work. I worked my ass off for my grades.
 
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Jeremy Jive

TRIBE Member
Aerius Zension said:
Get Peter Silverman on it
I'm going to pour water on it and get some braces for Lisa. I hope that someone is ok.

Somebody book Ben Watt, and I blame robots.

That should pretty much cover everything.
 
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NemIsis

TRIBE Member
My students know to tell me if a student slacks off on a major assignment. I make it very clear..and they do tell me. They know to hand in the work they have done without the other student's name on it. I will give the slacker an opportunity to redeem her/himself by giving them a make up assignment. But their mark will be notably reduced. I feel that I am not doing anyone any favours by allowing them to 'get away' with anything. Preparation for real life 101... I love all my kids, but sometimes to teach them you have to be tough..

So if it's a friend.., ask how you are helping them by letting them get away with it

I'm a bit of a hard ass, but I am fair.. and I tell them up front and warn them of the consequences..
 
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Poot

TRIBE Member
Jeremy Jive said:
I
I don't really feel like covering for people who don't contribute in class or at work. I worked my ass off for my grades.
Seriously.

The ballsiest leaching I ever witnessed --- after spending the school year closing the library on Friday nights (well... several of them, anyhow...) and totally busting my ass studying, this dude who had spent his entire university year both fucking and fucking off actually had the balls to ask if he could SIT BEHIND ME DURING OUR FINAL EXAM AND COPY MY PAPER.

???


!!!!!

As if.
 

MoFo

TRIBE Member
Fuck that guy.

Seriously.

That's how it is in uni and that's how it should be in the workplace.

Also, setting roles before you proceed always helps.
 

technowelt

TRIBE Member
Jeremy Jive said:
I'm going to pour water on it and get some braces for Lisa. I hope that someone is ok.

Somebody book Ben Watt, and I blame robots.

That should pretty much cover everything.
You forgot snakes!
 

Soulster

TRIBE Member
SJN said:
Welcome to real life. Sometimes people get credit where it isn't due, and vice-versa.

You have to give some thought to what might happen if you hand it in without his name, and he decides to kick up a fuss. If it actually came to it, could you actually prove he didn't offer to contribute?
wtf, maybe this is "real life" in an office situation where there are status issues. often in "real life" this shit happens because the boss hands off work to the underling because the underling can't say shit about it.

in SCHOOL you actually have the power to call out your peers who are fuckin ya up and not contributing because you are equals and don't run the risk of loosing your job or not getting a raise because of it.

why should Jeremy be afraid to kick up a fuss? it's obvious that the guy doesn't go to class and doesn't do work, group or not. profs aren't (usually) completely ignorant of knowing who's doing the work and who's not. if the dude does kick up a fuss the prof will know. not to mention there are 3 people to corroborate the story that this guy didn't do shit for work.

it's just plain silly NOT to call out this lazy jerk on his not doing work.
 
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peko

TRIBE Member
Jeremy Jive said:
Scenario.

...They chose not to call and then the group member emails one of us at 5PM the day the paper is due asking what they can contribute. The paper had already been completed, proofed and submitted via email.

Would you hand in the paper with their name on it and would you feel bad for not including their name on the paper if you didn't?

This is why I hate group work.
Sounds like this person dug their own grade (meant grave). Did any of your group members let the instructor know what was going on? Just summarize what happened, and include emails, and the instructor will understand.

I've done group presentations without gm's before - at the instructor's decision - but the show must go on. And ditto on your assignment.

In the work world, wouldn't non-cooperation with colleagues and not contributing to team projects = lack of job performance and potential to lose a job?

Don't give credit to a noncontributor.
 

peko

TRIBE Member
MoFo said:
Also, setting roles before you proceed always helps.
bingo, and mini deadlines and group meetings, and ALWAYS record meeting minutes - even if it's over the phone or msn.

paper trail mr. jive, always maintain a paper trail.
 

SJN

TRIBE Member
Soulster said:
wtf, maybe this is "real life" in an office situation where there are status issues. often in "real life" this shit happens because the boss hands off work to the underling because the underling can't say shit about it.

in SCHOOL you actually have the power to call out your peers who are fuckin ya up and not contributing because you are equals and don't run the risk of loosing your job or not getting a raise because of it.

why should Jeremy be afraid to kick up a fuss? it's obvious that the guy doesn't go to class and doesn't do work, group or not. profs aren't (usually) completely ignorant of knowing who's doing the work and who's not. if the dude does kick up a fuss the prof will know. not to mention there are 3 people to corroborate the story that this guy didn't do shit for work.

it's just plain silly NOT to call out this lazy jerk on his not doing work.
The remark about 'real life' was in response to Jeremy's boo-hooing about the fact that he doesn't want to share credit with someone who didn't earn it and/or hold someone's hand at this grown age. Nobody wants to, but it happens every day, so you better get somewhat used to it if you want to go anywhere in life. Learning what battles are worth fighting is as important a lesson as any. I don't disagree that, in an ideal world, you should call out people like this. The point is that you need to be careful, and also decide if it's worth the effort -- if he decides to call him out, he better be prepared to be able to prove his accusation if he kicks up a fuss.
 

Soulster

TRIBE Member
it seems pretty obvious to me that this is one of those battles to fight. chances are the no-work dude is not gonna put up much of a fight. and like i said, 3 vs. 1 = corroboration/evidence. plus, if the dude does kick up a stink then the only thing jeremy stands to loose is his grade being shared with someone who doesn't deserve it.

and just because you have to share credit with people who don't deserve it doesn't mean you don't have the right to complain about it! (i'm a fan of complaining about pretty much everything) :p
 

NemIsis

TRIBE Member
SJN said:
The remark about 'real life' was in response to Jeremy's boo-hooing about the fact that he doesn't want to share credit with someone who didn't earn it and/or hold someone's hand at this grown age. Nobody wants to, but it happens every day, so you better get somewhat used to it if you want to go anywhere in life. Learning what battles are worth fighting is as important a lesson as any. I don't disagree that, in an ideal world, you should call out people like this. The point is that you need to be careful, and also decide if it's worth the effort -- if he decides to call him out, he better be prepared to be able to prove his accusation if he kicks up a fuss.
I agree in a work (business) situation it may be difficult. I've never found that, but then I don't have to rely on anyone else..except for student teachers, who drive me batty when they assume that I will do the work for them, find the resources for their assignments etc., Learn pretty quickly that THAT is not the case.. They are learning to do what I do. If they can't handle it?,... they can find another teacher mentor.. And reap the repercussions from that.. ps: Not taking one on next year...

I'm appalled by what some students are getting away with..or trying to.

Sorry Tangent^^

I think he's been in touch with his prof, and given the slacker enough opportunities.. No one should have to do all the work and give credit to soemone else (IMO)
 
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