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Progressive techno

coleridge

TRIBE Member
Why is this concept too difficult for techno heads to understand?

It's simply techno with moody progressive parts. Techno with some melody.

The breaks community has no problem accepting the term progressive breaks.

Or maybe the techno guys are super protective ... much like how the house purists get all offended when they're told that elements of H-Foundation can be "progressive".

For god's sake, "progressive" is just an umbrella term for all type of music that have "that certain sound" that all "progressive" DJs are known to play. Something a little moody ... a little more dynamic ... with a little more depth .... dare I say, a little more intelligent. :)
 

LukeF

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by coleridge
much like how the house purists get all offended when they're told that elements of H-Foundation can be "progressive".
It's called close-mindedness, stuck in the past etc. and the 'fear' that "their" genre is attracting new fans. GASP
Ironic thing is that the artists are moving forward while the 'purists' who admire them so much aren't. They can keep using their PETs while I use my Pentium 4.
 

fleaflo

TRIBE Member
Ha! Ha! You two are on the warpath.

I don't think it's that much of a stretch for Breathe to bring in Hippe&Halo. So much of what they produce has proggy elements in it. The best thing about Breathe in it's inception is that it embraces all forms of prog, whether or not it be Prog House, Breaks, trance or whatever.

I heard Digweed drop a sick ass Prog-Techno set in montreal a year and a half ago. WOW!

Even Suke is representing at System this friday. It was only a matter of time.
 

djcheezwhiz

TRIBE Member
"progressive" is just an umbrella term for all type of music that have "that certain sound" that all "progressive" DJs are known to play. Something a little moody ... a little more dynamic ... with a little more depth .... dare I say, a little more intelligent. :)


in the words of silicone soul...right on, right on...the beauty of [quotes]progressive[/quotes] sounds is that it is always searching, pushing & reaching for something new...be it incorporating elements of techno, house, breaks, but also understanding & building on the roots of music (dub, disco, electronic & i want to say alternative but i'll lump it into the 80's new order category (don't want them referred to in the same labelling as creed)...

diversity is key...i've heard soca, house, techno, breaks, electro, at so called progressive parties...dare to move forward & dare to challenge the existing norms...

jc
 

Che

TRIBE Member
Any form of change will always be met by opposition. It's inevitable.

What's scaring me about my openmindedness to music is that I'm finding myself buying all sorts of styles of records, and I'm worried that it might end up hurting me in terms of getting work because it's pretty tough for DJ's to play across the genre spectrum and still be accepted. People always need some sort of reference or classification of what they're listening to, and its tough for me to pigeon hole myself. Thats why I totally respect guys like Danny Tenaglia and Tyrant(Lee+Craig), cause they play everything from House, Tech-house, breaks, techno, and even some trance, all brought together with a progressive foundation. They've somehow managed to blur borders of music and be successful at it, and I think we need more people with that kind of mentality in this business.
 
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Lexicon

TRIBE Member
Progressive....

I wouldn't be bothered much by what other purists think. Being close-minded will only bring you this far.
I agree diversity is the key. Keeping an open minded towards different genres helps push the music forward, hence, what progressive is all about: Progression.
 

H2Whoa

TRIBE Member
I don't get why we need to re-label this music. It's techno.
I wouldn't call prog-techno more intelligent. That's just arrogant and protective as well.

Also, some of those in the breaks community do have a problem with it from reviews I have read in the past.

To me, progressive is just a prefix not a genre.
 

The Truth

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by coleridge
Why is this concept too difficult for techno heads to understand?

It's simply techno with moody progressive parts. Techno with some melody.

The breaks community has no problem accepting the term progressive breaks.

Or maybe the techno guys are super protective ... much like how the house purists get all offended when they're told that elements of H-Foundation can be "progressive".

For god's sake, "progressive" is just an umbrella term for all type of music that have "that certain sound" that all "progressive" DJs are known to play. Something a little moody ... a little more dynamic ... with a little more depth .... dare I say, a little more intelligent. :)
I was waiting for some progressive twat to attack techno.

To say that "progressive" has "depth" and techno doesn't is just ludicris. There is so much techno with melody (particulary older stuff) such as Underground Resistence, Carl Craig, Derrick May, Kenny Larkin, Dave Angel, B12, John Tejada, Aril Brika, Ian O'Bien...labels such as Tranmat, Soma, Ferox, Fragmented, Peacefrog and tons more, create such incredible sounds and atmospheres that "progressive" can't even figure out.

Don't forget the fact that "techno" has always had an experimental edge while "progressive" has always had a "pop" feel. The sounds created by techno are supposed to be different and completely new, while progressive sound are often familiar and thus more popular with people afraid to venture into unknown territories.

What's so "progressive" about a track with vocals-its usually cheesy to me. I don't see why tracks like "Hide U" and "Rapture" are being championed by many prog dj, because those tracks seem like the usual pop/dance/top 40 songs to me.

There are still some people I know who thinks that the "progressive" genre means that the sound is constantly evolving. That is such a misnomer. The Progressive term came from journalist Dom Phillips who described a type of house emerging in the UK which was a cross between trancey techno and house.

Suddenly, as the style became more popular, tons of clone tracks were produced and a formula was created. There is usually little real proression when most tracks have a formula. This is why the phrase "Bog Standard Prog Fodder"is being used.

Furthermore, I've noticed something in the prog scene...most of the big names have been hyped up by UK mags, clubs, comps and radio without much production credibilty. Why are Sasha, Digweed, Seaman, JVM and Fortier so massive without actually doing much besides "spinning records". Souldn't they earn they huge status by actually producing some music once in a while.

I will always stand behind a techno artist like Richie Hawtin because he's produced about 7 albums which all sound completely different, plus he owns two respected labels Plus 8 and Minus, he has remixed names such as Depeche Mode and New Order. He often plays on 3 decks with a 909 drum machine-lets see a prog dj do that! To top it off, he is now using the Final Scatch system which the manufacturers asked him to test out first among all the thousands of djs around the world.

C'mon prog drones and Sasha wannabes-let see you beat that!!
 

fleaflo

TRIBE Member
Whilst I am not a champion of the prog sound, I do love to hear the diversity it provides. Kinda like when I check out a techno set, which I can sometimes find really fascinating but generally not. But I do recognize the different effects that electronic music can have on the mind. What brings one person to thier knees in admiration can leave another disgusted and reaching for the stop button.

According to the way you put things tho, Techno is a bland, soul-less, ridiculously repetitive banging of pots, pans and is full of keyboard geek. There is no gyrating going on to the sound of r2-d2.
 

Lexicon

TRIBE Member
Re: Re: Progressive techno

Originally posted by The Truth
Don't forget the fact that "techno" has always had an experimental edge while "progressive" has always had a "pop" feel. The sounds created by techno are supposed to be different and completely new, while progressive sound are often familiar and thus more popular with people afraid to venture into unknown territories.
"Pop" feel? Bullshit.
You obviously know squat about progressive. Progressive ventures into different genres and is nothing like 'Pop'.
Most progressive may sound familiar as certain elements are reused over and over again thus making them sound the same. So does every other genre. Pffft.


What's so "progressive" about a track with vocals-its usually cheesy to me. I don't see why tracks like "Hide U" and "Rapture" are being championed by many prog dj, because those tracks seem like the usual pop/dance/top 40 songs to me.
It is inevitable that some tracks become anthems and these two tracks happened to be just two of them. So what?
Move on.


There are still some people I know who thinks that the "progressive" genre means that the sound is constantly evolving. That is such a misnomer. The Progressive term came from journalist Dom Phillips who described a type of house emerging in the UK which was a cross between trancey techno and house.
That is why people should not always believe what they read.



Suddenly, as the style became more popular, tons of clone tracks were produced and a formula was created. There is usually little real proression when most tracks have a formula. This is why the phrase "Bog Standard Prog Fodder"is being used.
Progressive existed since the early ninties. I wouldn't really say, it suddenly became popular. Rather, it has gained more listeners during these years. Again, so does any genre.
Also, it is how you use the tracks in your set inregardless whether it has the standard formula or not. Did Techno not teach u anything? ;)
BSPF is just another bastardised term. Only fools use them. :p



Furthermore, I've noticed something in the prog scene...most of the big names have been hyped up by UK mags, clubs, comps and radio without much production credibilty. Why are Sasha, Digweed, Seaman, JVM and Fortier so massive without actually doing much besides "spinning records". Souldn't they earn they huge status by actually producing some music once in a while.
Since when did Sasha, Digweed, Seaman, JVM not produced any tracks? Obviously, you are clueless. Some research will keep u busy for a while.


I will always stand behind a techno artist like Richie Hawtin because he's produced about 7 albums which all sound completely different, plus he owns two respected labels Plus 8 and Minus, he has remixed names such as Depeche Mode and New Order. He often plays on 3 decks with a 909 drum machine-lets see a prog dj do that! To top it off, he is now using the Final Scatch system which the manufacturers asked him to test out first among all the thousands of djs around the world.
I always hold highly for what Richie Hawtin has done for the scene. No doubt about that. But what has this gotta do with this topic about using final scratch and all......??
There are prog djs who utilizes 3 decks, samplers, effects, etc.
Namely Phil K, Steve Lawler, etc....


C'mon prog drones and Sasha wannabes-let see you beat that!!
I have seen lots of Jeff Mills, Dave Clarke wannabes. U one of them? hehe ;)
Remember: You can call music whatever the eff you want, at the end of the day, it is just music. Argue all you want and you still will not change anyone's preference towards certain music.
It is only one's open mindedness to embrace different music that will open up his/her world.

And please, there is no need to call others twat. That really shows what a Techno snob you are.

p/s I enjoy all sorts of music and spin all sorts, including minimal techno.
 
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G

Guest

Guest
Re: Re: Progressive techno

Originally posted by The Truth


I was waiting for some progressive twat to attack techno.

C'mon prog drones and Sasha wannabes-let see you beat that!!
bit harsh innit???

first off, your doing exactly what u said u dont like, youre now attacking the progressive community. not that im a great defender of prog...it just seems hypocritical...

you are right on many points. music does tend to fall in a line of routine & formula. it happend with trance, then progressive & now tribal. its what happens when a market gets saturated & no new, innovative ideas come to the forefront.

youre also right about about the hype regarding more than half of these dj's. it is all bullshit media nonsense. trust me, i know. in terms of progressive dj's, there are many US jocks that overpriced & overhyped UK DJ's cant hold a candle to. but this is what happens when the UK holds all of the marketing in this this type of music. but, as in any industry, theres always politics & propaganda & the UK magazines are no exception.

but to say that techno dj's (in your case, ritchie hawtin) are far superior to any other dj's from any other format is ridicoulous. theres talent in all formats. if u cant see that, then youre obviously just a techno nazi-with a chip on his shoulder.

at the end of the day, good music is good music, regardless of what sub-genre it falls into...whether its techno, prog, house...whatever....

and that all i have to say on this mattter...

jerome @ release

http://www.releaserecords.com
 

*SiLver*RoBoT*

TRIBE Member
Re: Re: Re: Progressive techno

Originally posted by RELEASE

at the end of the day, good music is good music, regardless of what sub-genre it falls into...whether its techno, prog, house...whatever....

Word to that!

*over*and*out*

*SiLver*RoBoT*
 

coleridge

TRIBE Member
Good! Someone who's passionate about their music.

First of all I'm not attacking techno. Read what I said. Did I anywhere try to discount techno?

I was simply trying to state that the term progressive techno isn't that far fetched. Actually perhaps it should be called tech-progressive. Regardless it doesn't really matter. I'm talking about harder edged music that falls somewhere between "techno" and "progressive". I'll tell you as well ... both camps will happily claim the music as their own. That's great music. Music that apeals to a wider crowd, music that sits somewhere between all those predifined genres. Producers like Leandro Gamez, Phil Keiran, Tony Thomas come to mind. Labels like Soma, Superbra and Primevil.

I'm just trying to state ... it doesn't matter. "Progressive" fans have never been offended that their music is being discovered by other DJs. Yeah we might gripe about Judge Jules playing prog ... but we're not deeply bitter about it. We welcome DJs like Roger Sanchez, Victor Calderone, Eric Morillo, John Selway throwing some prog into their sets.

Techno purists of all electronic music fans ... are the first to understand the whole concept that development and story telling in music doesn't have to rely on big key changes, repeating choruses of happy vocals or obvious synth leads. Techno records can evolve as simply as a changing attack setting on a snare ... as shown so many times by minimalists like Richie Hawtin. Why then is deep progressive discounted so so often? You can tell a story through gentle changes in drum patterns but you can't tell a story through gentle changes in ambient sounds? And you wonder why deep progressive is so often found boring? For the same reasons why minimal techno is found so boring by many. But this discussion is an entirely different subject.

Rapture ... was HATED from day one by many progressive fans. They saw it as a pop record with a terrible vocal. Sasha, Digweed, Pete Tong etc... saw it as a great piece of music. I admit I played it and I liked it for a while before it was ruined. I liked it because I've always liked good music ... even if it's pop. Hell I like N'SYNC's girlfriend, one of the best pop records I've heard in ages. It's okay to like good music.

"There are still some people I know who thinks that the "progressive" genre means that the sound is constantly evolving."

Of course it is. Look at the journey in sound that Sasha and Digweed have gone. They don't sound anything like they did when they first spearheaded the "progressive" sound in their Northern Exposure compilation. Have you ever heard the progressive-house records that Dom Phillips was talking about? Records on the labels like Guerilla or Jackpot? They are the furthest thing from "bog-standard-prog-fodder" They aren't deep dark prog ... very far from it. In fact progressive as a genre has seen so many changes over the years. The progressive-house days of old, the epic-trance of BT (and the clones that followed), the deep and melodic Digweed sound ....

"Furthermore, I've noticed something in the prog scene...most of the big names have been hyped up by UK mags, clubs, comps and radio without much production credibilty. Why are Sasha, Digweed, Seaman, JVM and Fortier so massive without actually doing much besides "spinning records". Souldn't they earn they huge status by actually producing some music once in a while."

You make it sound like they've never produced anything. Sasha has a pretty solid background of production, XPander was a pretty big record. Plus his album is finished and early reports label it as a masterpiece. Digweed, under the name Bedrock has pretty noteable production career. Heaven Scent was a big hit and he's done many remixes. Deigweed of course also runs a pretty succesfull record label in Bedrock as well. JVM has realised to further his career he needs to produce and he's doing just that. Over the past few years Chris Fortier is one half of Fade ... who among other things are the ones responsible for THAT remix of Delerium - Silence which becames such a massive international hit. Dave Seaman is probably the most etablished producer of your list. Under the name Brothers in Rythym he's responsible for many a remix and original. Check out my list at the end, it's pretty prolific.

And before you discount all their work to the help of their production partners I'll say. Yes I agree that to a certain extent the production partner thing is cheating. But every one does it. Hell Timo Maas owes his entire career to his studio partner ...

-----

Now a list of Dave Seaman's (one half of Brothers in Rythym) remixes:


> Remixes

Alanis Morrissette - Uninvited (Brothers In Rhythm Remix)
Alexander O' Neal - Love Makes No Sense (Brothers In Rhythm Remix)
Art Of Noise vs Brothers In Rhythm - Dreaming Colour (Red)
Art Of Noise vs Brothers In Rhythm - Dreaming Colour (Silver)
BT - Godspeed (Brothers In Rhythm Mix)
Billie Ray Martin - Imitation Of Life (Brothers In Rhythm Instrumental Mix)
Billie Ray Martin - Imitation Of Life (Brothers In Rhythm Mix)
Billie Ray Martin - Imitation Of Life (Brothers In Rhythm Padapella Mix)
Billie Ray Martin - Your Loving Arms (Brothers In Rhythm Club Mix)
Billie Ray Martin - Your Loving Arms (Brothers In Rhythm Edited Club Mix)
Civilles & Cole - Pride (In The Name Of Love) (Brothers In Rhythm Remix)
D*Note - Garden Of Earthly Delights (Brothers In Rhythm Remix)
D:Ream - Take Me Away (Brothers In Rhythm Club Mix)
Daphne - Change (Brothers In Rhythm Remix)
David Bowie - Jump They Say (Brothers In Rhythm Instrumental)
David Bowie - Jump They Say (Brothers In Rhythm Mix)
Dido - Take My Hand (Brothers In Rhythm Remix)
Dina Carroll - Ain't No Man (Brothers In Rhythm Remix)
DollsHead - It's Over, It's Under (Brothers In Rhythm Instrumental)
DollsHead - It's Over, It's Under (Brothers In Rhythm Mix)
Duran Duran - Save A Prayer (Steve Anderson BIR Mix)
Eurythmics - Here Comes The Rain Again (Brothers In Rhythm DMC Mix)
Eve Gallagher - Love Is A Master Of Disguise (Steve Anderson Ten Worlds Mix)
Frankie Goes To Hollywood - Welcome To The Pleasuredome (Brothers In Rhythm Rollercoaster Mix)
Garbage - Special (Brothers In Rhythm Instrumental)
Garbage - Special (Brothers In Rhythm Mix)
Heaven 17 - Temptation (Brothers In Rhythm Instrumental)
Heaven 17 - Temptation (Brothers In Rhythm Remix)
Horse - Careful (Brothers In Rhythm Soundtrack Club Edit)
Horse - Careful (Brothers In Rhythm Soundtrack Club Mix)
Horse - Careful (Sasha vs Brothers In Rhythm Remix)
Human Movement featuring Sophie Moleta - Love Has Come Again (Brothers In Rhythm Remix)
Inner City - Pennies From Heaven (Brothers In Rhythm DMC Remix)
Inner City - Till We Meet Again (Brothers In Rhythm Remix)
Inner City - Till We Meet Again (Ming's Mighty Dub)
Janet Jackson - If (Brothers In Rhythm House Mix)
Janet Jackson - If (Brothers In Rhythm Swing Yo Pants Mix)
Judy Cheeks - Reach (Brothers In Rhythm Club Mix)
Judy Cheeks - Reach (Brothers In Rhythm Mix)
Kid Creole & The Coconuts - I'm A Wonderful Thing, Baby (Brothers In Rhythm 12" Remix)
Kid Creole & The Coconuts - I'm A Wonderful Thing, Baby (Brothers In Rhythm 7" Instrumental)
Kid Creole & The Coconuts - I'm A Wonderful Thing, Baby (Brothers In Rhythm 7" Remix)
Kylie Minogue - Confide In Me (Big Brother's Mix)
Kylie Minogue - Confide In Me (Master Mix)
Kylie Minogue - Finer Feelings (Brothers In Rhythm 12" Mix) Kylie Minogue - Finer Feelings (Brothers In Rhythm Ambient)
Kylie Minogue - Too Far (Brothers In Rhythm Dub Mix)
Kylie Minogue - Too Far (Brothers In Rhythm House Mix)
Kylie Minogue - Where Is The Feeling (BIR Bish Bosh Mix)
Kylie Minogue - Where Is The Feeling (BIR Dolphin Mix)
Kylie Minogue - Where Is The Feeling (BIR Soundtrack)
Lulu - Goodbye Baby And Amen (Brothers In Rhythm 12" Mix)
Lulu - Independence (Brothers In Rhythm Club Mix)
M People - Open Your Heart (Brothers In Rhythm Remix)
Michael Jackson - Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' (Brothers In Rhythm House Mix)
Michael Jackson - Who Is It (Brothers In Rhythm House Mix)
Michael Jackson - Who Is It (The Most Patient Mix)
Naimee Coleman - Love Song (Brothers In Rhythm Mix)
New Order - World (The Price Of Love) (Brothers Dubstramental)
New Order - World (The Price Of Love) (Brothers In Rhythm Mix)
PKA - Powergen (Only Your Love) (Brothers In Rhythm Mix)
Pet Shop Boys - DJ Culture (Extended Mix)
Pet Shop Boys - Go West (Mings Gone West: First And Second Movement)
Pet Shop Boys - How Can You Expect To Be Taken Seriously (1991 Brothers In Rhythm Perfect Mood Mix)
Pet Shop Boys - How Can You Expect To Be Taken Seriously (7" Perfect Attitude Mix)
Pet Shop Boys - How Can You Expect To Be Taken Seriously (Classical Reprise)
Pet Shop Boys - Was It Worth It? (12" Mix)
Pet Shop Boys - Was It Worth It? (Dub)
Pet Shop Boys - We All Feel Better In The Dark (Brothers In Rhythm After Hours Climax Mix)
Placebo - Every Me Every You (Brothers In Rhythm Glam Club Mix)
Placebo - Passive Aggressive (Brothers In Rhythm Mix)
Placebo - Without You I'm Nothing (Brothers In Rhythm Club Mix)
Sabrina Johnston - Peace (In The Valley) (Brothers In Rhythm Mix)
Sasha - Higher Ground (Big Brother's Mix)
Seal - Newborn Friend (Brothers In Rhythm Club Mix)
Secret Life - Love So Strong (Brothers In Rhythm Experience)
Sting - If You Love Somebody Set Them Free (A Brothers In Rhythm Soundtrack)
Technique - Sun Is Shining (Brothers In Rhythm Club Mix)
Technique - Sun Is Shining (Brothers In Rhythm Magoo Dub)
Voices Of 6th Avenue - Call Him Up (Brothers In Rhythm Club Mix)
Way Out West - Ajare (Brothers In Rhythm Club Mix)
 

The Truth

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by coleridge
Good! Someone who's passionate about their music.

First of all I'm not attacking techno. Read what I said. Did I anywhere try to discount techno?

I was simply trying to state that the term progressive techno isn't that far fetched. Actually perhaps it should be called tech-progressive. Regardless it doesn't really matter. I'm talking about harder edged music that falls somewhere between "techno" and "progressive". I'll tell you as well ... both camps will happily claim the music as their own. That's great music. Music that apeals to a wider crowd, music that sits somewhere between all those predifined genres. Producers like Leandro Gamez, Phil Keiran, Tony Thomas come to mind. Labels like Soma, Superbra and Primevil.

I'm just trying to state ... it doesn't matter. "Progressive" fans have never been offended that their music is being discovered by other DJs. Yeah we might gripe about Judge Jules playing prog ... but we're not deeply bitter about it. We welcome DJs like Roger Sanchez, Victor Calderone, Eric Morillo, John Selway throwing some prog into their sets.

Techno purists of all electronic music fans ... are the first to understand the whole concept that development and story telling in music doesn't have to rely on big key changes, repeating choruses of happy vocals or obvious synth leads. Techno records can evolve as simply as a changing attack setting on a snare ... as shown so many times by minimalists like Richie Hawtin. Why then is deep progressive discounted so so often? You can tell a story through gentle changes in drum patterns but you can't tell a story through gentle changes in ambient sounds? And you wonder why deep progressive is so often found boring? For the same reasons why minimal techno is found so boring by many. But this discussion is an entirely different subject.



Of course it is. Look at the journey in sound that Sasha and Digweed have gone. They don't sound anything like they did when they first spearheaded the "progressive" sound in their Northern Exposure compilation. Have you ever heard the progressive-house records that Dom Phillips was talking about? Records on the labels like Guerilla or Jackpot? They are the furthest thing from "bog-standard-prog-fodder" They aren't deep dark prog ... very far from it. In fact progressive as a genre has seen so many changes over the years. The progressive-house days of old, the epic-trance of BT (and the clones that followed), the deep and melodic Digweed sound ....

You make it sound like they've never produced anything. Sasha has a pretty solid background of production, XPander was a pretty big record. Plus his album is finished and early reports label it as a masterpiece. Digweed, under the name Bedrock has pretty noteable production career. Heaven Scent was a big hit and he's done many remixes. Deigweed of course also runs a pretty succesfull record label in Bedrock as well. JVM has realised to further his career he needs to produce and he's doing just that. Over the past few years Chris Fortier is one half of Fade ... who among other things are the ones responsible for THAT remix of Delerium - Silence which becames such a massive international hit. Dave Seaman is probably the most etablished producer of your list. Under the name Brothers in Rythym he's responsible for many a remix and original. Check out my list at the end, it's pretty prolific.



-----


I guess I came off pretty strong, but I have never ventured into this room ever before to attack "progressive" . I don't hate every single progressive track that ever came out nor do I hate every progressive dj. I've been listening to dance music esp techno for close to 13 years and for me, it has always been my love before any other style of dance music. Back in 1990, progressive wasn't even invented yet! What were you all you prog fans listening to back in 1990?

I have heard all the progressive djs before, way back at the early Better Days events and elsewhere. I have Renaisance one which I listen to ocasionally, and I have "Progressive House Classics" on Firm in my cd collection, which has all those Guerilla and Jackpot tracks on it. I've been to System a few time too.

However, as the years went by, I noticed progressive getting more and more commercial/pop/top 40 and thats why I leaned towards techno. The thing that bugs me the most is the hype surrounding these big names such as S&D when there are at best, "great djs" not great "artists".

I know S&D, and even Seamen have done some tracks but not much in the last three years or so...they have gotten lazy and let Global Underground, Radio 1, Muzik, Mixmag and Ministry of Sound market them into Superstar DJs with little production credits RECENTLY.

S&D recently got $70,000 AMERICAN DOLLARS for their gig at Koolhause WHICH I ATTENDED with an old friend. They were good but definitely not worth that type of money. NO DJs ARE WORTH THAT MUCH.

Jeremy from Release, and Coleridge I respect your thoughts and you are right about good music is good music no matter what they genre is. I don't like hype and wannabe Superstar DJs because that what a lot of Progressive is about to me. Variety is good, and I'm glad that I live in Toronto where I do have choice.

my $0.03
 
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The Truth

TRIBE Member
One more thing...

I like "progressive" more than

Euro Trance
Happy Hardcore
UK Garage
Ragga Jungle
UK Hard House
Funky Breaks
 

satori

TRIBE Member
Wicked thread matt, i just hope some of the techno snobs on this board read this shit because most of them dont know what the fuck is going on. Probably half of the shit they play or listen to has progressive elements in it without them even knowing. It's ok though, with the mindset and close mindedness they have, they wont be making it too far.
 

coleridge

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by The Truth
Originally posted by coleridge
Good! Someone who's passionate about their music.

However, as the years went by, I noticed progressive getting more and more commercial/pop/top 40 and thats why I leaned towards techno. The thing that bugs me the most is the hype surrounding these big names such as S&D when there are at best, "great djs" not great "artists".

I know S&D, and even Seamen have done some tracks but not much in the last three years or so...they have gotten lazy and let Global Underground, Radio 1, Muzik, Mixmag and Ministry of Sound market them into Superstar DJs with little production credits RECENTLY.

S&D recently got $70,000 AMERICAN DOLLARS for their gig at Koolhause WHICH I ATTENDED with an old friend. They were good but definitely not worth that type of money. NO DJs ARE WORTH THAT MUCH.
I have to agree with you.

After two years of seeing many many progressive DJs come to Breathe and play ... all I could think of when seeing S+D at Koolhaus was "they get away with so much" Don't get me wrong they were great .... but I guarantee you had some lesser name DJ come in and played that set, they wouldn't have got nearly as much respect. I know a lot has to do with the stadium stype rock concert show ... it's nothing compared to a proper club where they can read the crowd. But still...

But that said, I'll always give credit to S+D for staying true to the music. When it comes down to it ... they are in this for the music. Not for the lifestyles they live.
 

ladd

TRIBE Member
Probably half of the shit they play or listen to has progressive elements in it without them even knowing.
I'm sure that goes both ways.
Many house, progressive and even goa heads shun techno, but they dont realize a large majority of there music has techno elements in them as well. Whether it be full on techno, or even down to the basic patterns/structures/rhythmns of tracks root back to techno.
but isnt that what techno really is, basic or multiple rythmns combined?
 

~atp~

TRIBE Member
This is a great thread...it's funny to hear the opposing side of what is a techno vs [insert-genre-here] age-old debate. This time, it happens to be progressive.

The way I see it, "techno" is simply a way of saying: "FUCK THE GENRES". No, really: if you think about it, if techno is really, truly purist, then it will contain elements of EVERY other genre there is; trance, prog, house, breaks, etc...

My love for techno stems from the fact that I refuse to accept one particular genre over another. I have a bunch of records that are most definitely "progressive" and a bunch that are most definitely "trance". But then, I also have records that fall somewhere in between--what do you call those in-between records? ....techno, usually. :)




Simply put, techno IMO has no limit to its expressive power because there is no limit to its form.




-keith
 
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Adam Duke

TRIBE Member
Keith, i was just about to throw a big

FUCK GENRES

to this thread.

Call it whatever you people need to. Put it into some little music box that limits the music's scope. Good music is good music period.

@m. <-- technocrat.
 

loopdokter

TRIBE Promoter
Re: Re: Progressive techno

Originally posted by The Truth

C'mon prog drones and Sasha wannabes-let see you beat that!!
You better be careful with a rant like that in this room. Someone may come up to you in person and crack your Richie Hawtin glasses and splice up your Plastikman tattoo.

Lots of bells and whistles while you DJ don't make a good DJ my friend. If you can make those bells and whistles mould into what you're doing and do so in a manner that doesn't sound horrid (which is about 50% of Richie does), then you're onto something. Last time I heard Hawtin he sucked (and he has every time previously that I've heard him). Even my technohead friend agreed that he was biting the big one. He was trainwrecking mixes all over the place - like he usually does. Sorry, but that's not 'original'. That's poor form. Quite a large portion of the progressive DJ community are some of the best technically proficient and best programmers int he world because they take ALL aspects of music and melt it into the pot.

Your ignorance on our scene is showing. Come out and listen to a lot of prog DJs. They'll drop Umek, Adam Beyer and so on mixed in with. Why not so long ago Matt Coleridge (a bog standard 'prog' DJ as you put it) was raving about the Umek 'Voices In Africa' EP and I've seen people like Nick Warren chart Drum Code records. Tell me of a techno DJ that plays nothing more than electro or techno. That's hardly original.

The snobbery of the techno scene is one of the reasons I stopped affiliating myself with that crowd. I couldn't stand people being so closed-minded!

Rapture and Hide You are HARDLY the epitomy of the progressive scene. To me progressive is a loose term that encompasses a certain sound on records that can come from techno, nu school breaks, prog house, tech house and other genres.

Lastly, to call you on your criticism of DJs having to prove themselves through their production is simply silly! Not all good DJs make good producers and vice versa. Ever heard Green Velvet/Cajmere DJ? It's fucking painful!

Funnily enough, the names you dropped ALL produce and have made some AMAZING tunes over the years...

Sasha hasn't put one out in a while, but he doesn't need to. He's a perfectionist and has arguably produced some of the best progressive records ever. Tell me the last time Derrick May put out a record, hmm?! What was that, 1992? He's still a techno legend and recognized as an amazing DJ. Fortier, Seaman and Diggers have all produced ample material as Fade, Brothers In Rhythm and Bedrock respectively. When you're globetrotting the world like they do, it's very hard to get out a release a month like a lot of the techno jocks do. Even so, most of the techno guys put out SINGLES and not albums. When's the last thing that Richie did other than Close To The Edit?

Please, take your ignorance and kindly put it where the sun don't shine. Besides, we don't like to stand around and talk about what pitch the hi hat is at in that Ben Simms record, we like to dance to quality music from all genres.

Jeers,
Jay K.
 

RyanMarcus

TRIBE Member
That was nice Jay (as well as every other 'defender of prog')...

I'm a little pissed I didn't get home from work in time to throw my two cents in too.

For the dude saying that people like Sasha and Digweed (and so on) don't produce, well, everyone else has listed quite a lot of evidence to the contrary, and I'd like to add something to that as well: Diggers just finished a movie soundtrack. Yes, a movie soundtrack. Has the much esteemed Richie Hawtin even been asked to do such a thing? Hmmm... Don't think so...
 

tommysmalls

TRIBE Member
labels for genres are pretty much meaningless.

the thought of merging the progressive genre with the techno genre kind of gives me the heeby geeby's, but i think the argument of 'good music is good music, regardless of what you want to call it'.

to call techno r2 d2 music with pots and pans is as ignorant as any generalization made of progressive music.

there are probably at least 10 different ways to describe what 'minimal techno' is, and probably at least as many to describe what 'funky techno' is.

labels are bullshit - they don't help anything.

matt, luke, dave, nick...i'm sure you've all heard (and probably own) knights of the jaguar by aztek mystic....what would you call that? to lots of people, its just "detroit", which to die-hards, MUST be techno - but some detroit has a lot of trance elements

does it really matter what you call it?

i spin tunes that i love for what they sound like and how they make me feel, not what sub-sub-genre or label people give it.

having said that, most trance/progressive/breaks music doesn't do much for my ear or my soul....does that mean that i'm not allowed to not like it?
 
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