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Private life/Public life/Secret life

PosTMOd

Well-Known TRIBEr
Public life -- that which any ordinary person can see of you.

Private life -- that which somebody with investigative skills/voyeuristic tendencies/obsession could find out.

Secret life -- that which is kept to oneself (and sometimes even from oneself!).

There is no way to access someone else's secret life, for even with--for instance-- an agent such as sodium pentothal, a creative person will mostly blab crap; this is not to say that there won't be any truth in what they say, only that one cannot separate the wheat from the chaff... in fact, it all looks like chaff.

Everything you perceive is filtered through your own secret filter. Many problems arise from people assuming that other people's secret filter is the same as theirs, or even similar. Sometimes it certainly seems that way, but there are many ways to the same end (i.e. many ways to skin a cat).

Introverts have secret lives that are a much greater fraction of their lives than do extroverts; extroverts tend to think that everyone is as interested in their lives as they themselves are.
 

Adam

TRIBE Member
Postmod - tell us a dirty secret life secret.

but adam, then it wouldnt be a secret then, would it?

tell.
 

deep

TRIBE Member
Is that lifted from somewhere or your own thoughts on the subject? I find the distinctions drawn between introverts and extroverts simplistic and self serving for the author. In my experience, most introverts have had some psychological hangup or insecurity that prevents them from interacting meaningfully with others. Rather than their introversion being simply a personal leaning. One could argue resentment towards extroversion / validation of introverted tendencies are just ego protective mechanisms for the introvert incapable of getting over their issues to do the things they want.

Anyone suggesting that they don't want/need at all any kind of extroverted contact with the social world is full of shit and seriously undermining an undeniable aspect of human existence (and therefore contributing to the emptiness of their lives).
 
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PosTMOd

Well-Known TRIBEr
deep, you are quite obviously an extrovert, and therefore you just assume that introversion is a problem.

I have always been an introvert, even way before I had a chance to "learn" how to be one! For instance, one of my earliest memories was laying underneath the coffee table in the living room for hours at a time, completely engrossed in being inside my make believe spaceship. I was 4 years old.

Of course, my experiences later merely reinforced and modified my introversion (i.e. made me more introverted than I would have been). However, interestingly, my sister who is 16 months older than me, and who went through the very same experiences in terms of abuse and whatnot, is purely extroverted. In other words, introversion/extroversion are tendencies, but you cannot make an introvert into an extrovert... it is as impossible as turning a straight man gay.

A few weeks ago, when left all alone, within 8 hours, I realized how happy I was to be alone for 5 days... I hadn't felt so energized all year. Of course, I realize that because X-mas used to be such an extra stressful time, that the learned thing is that if I am alone at X-mas... however, regardless of the past, I am an introvert, no doubt.

We are social animals, no doubt, but some of us just do not gain any energy from interaction. This is hardwired.
 

Adam

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by PosTMOd
deep, you are quite obviously an extrovert, and therefore you just assume that introversion is a problem.
I was just about to point out that most introverts assume extroverts are self-centered and craving some sort of attention they've been missing, and extroverts probably assume introverts lack basic social skills and can't operate in a group environment.

But Deep's just an asshole in general, so that doesn't count.
 

PosTMOd

Well-Known TRIBEr
Originally posted by deep
Anyone suggesting that they don't want/need at all any kind of extroverted contact with the social world is full of shit and seriously undermining an undeniable aspect of human existence (and therefore contributing to the emptiness of their lives).
Everyone needs SOME contact. However, some people need VERY little.

Case in point: My oldest sister is 40. She has not had a friend since she was 15 or so. Never had a boyfriend/girlfriend, and she has lived by herself for 25 years. I lived with her for a few months, and she is very happy like that... she needs minimal contact with others.

Is her life empty? From your perspective, yes. Because you do not have the ability to understand that.
 
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Dr Funk MD

TRIBE Promoter
Originally posted by PosTMOd
deep, you are quite obviously an extrovert, and therefore you just assume that introversion is a problem.

I have always been an introvert, even way before I had a chance to "learn" how to be one! For instance, one of my earliest memories was laying underneath the coffee table in the living room for hours at a time, completely engrossed in being inside my make believe spaceship. I was 4 years old.

Of course, my experiences later merely reinforced and modified my introversion (i.e. made me more introverted than I would have been). However, interestingly, my sister who is 16 months older than me, and who went through the very same experiences in terms of abuse and whatnot, is purely extroverted. In other words, introversion/extroversion are tendencies, but you cannot make an introvert into an extrovert... it is as impossible as turning a straight man gay.

A few weeks ago, when left all alone, within 8 hours, I realized how happy I was to be alone for 5 days... I hadn't felt so energized all year. Of course, I realize that because X-mas used to be such an extra stressful time, that the learned thing is that if I am alone at X-mas... however, regardless of the past, I am an introvert, no doubt.

We are social animals, no doubt, but some of us just do not gain any energy from interaction. This is hardwired.
So you don't think that an introvert can "come out of his/her shell" so to speak?

I think I've become more out going then when I was a kid. I used to be engross myself in whatever I was doing and my mom says I would sit by myself and play with my Lego or whatever for hours without saying a word. Now I crave human contact a little more. Does that mean I've always been an extrovert waiting to bust out or does being friendly and social not necessarily make you an extrovert?
 

Evil Dynovac

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by PosTMOd
Everyone needs SOME contact. However, some people need VERY little.

Case in point: My oldest sister is 40. She has not had a friend since she was 15 or so. Never had a boyfriend/girlfriend, and she has lived by herself for 25 years. I lived with her for a few months, and she is very happy like that... she needs minimal contact with others.

Is her life empty? From your perspective, yes. Because you do not have the ability to understand that.
What does your sister do for sexual contact? Do introverts need/want/desire less sex than extroverts?

(Interesting subject.)
 

deep

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by PosTMOd
deep, you are quite obviously an extrovert, and therefore you just assume that introversion is a problem.


People have mixes of extroversion and introversion depending on context, so it's erroneous to think that a person is clearly one or the other. Simply because someone may know / talk to an entire room in one place doesn't preclude that they spend the majority of their time or take to most tasks alone.

I have always been an introvert, even way before I had a chance to "learn" how to be one! For instance, one of my earliest memories was laying underneath the coffee table in the living room for hours at a time, completely engrossed in being inside my make believe spaceship. I was 4 years old.
You're trying to tell me that make believe imaginative play as a child is early indication of an introverted personality? That's more than a stretch, that's disregarding normal characteristics of that developmental stage and imposing relatively weak connections where you want to see them.

In other words, introversion/extroversion are tendencies, but you cannot make an introvert into an extrovert... it is as impossible as turning a straight man gay.
No reason why someone should change from one to another either, if they're happy where they're at.

But as aforementioned in my experience, most people's introversion has some root in an insecurity, anxiety, etc. that prevents them from interacting openly and freely with others.

Naturally introversion feels more comfortable since they're not exposed to any of the risks they would be if they made themselves more open to the world, and naturally what feels most comfortable for people is what they probably prefer to do.

I contend however that sometimes what is most comfortable for us is not what will ultimately do us the greatest benefit in the long run. Sucking down sugary crap and getting a good insulin buzz on might feel comfortable in the interim but result in diabetes in the long run. Lazing around all day instead of getting some uncomfortable activity . Slacking in school obviously doesn't do you as much good as working to exhaustion every chance you get. There's always a question of balancing the comfort of stagnation with the discomfort of change.

A few weeks ago, when left all alone, within 8 hours, I realized how happy I was to be alone for 5 days... I hadn't felt so energized all year. Of course, I realize that because X-mas used to be such an extra stressful time, that the learned thing is that if I am alone at X-mas... however, regardless of the past, I am an introvert, no doubt.
That's good, I'm glad you're isolating more things that make you happy, so that you can emphasize them. Sometimes it takes a while to figure out what things are most important to us - I've realized many things myself over the past couple years that have had a profound impact on the way I take to my life.

We are social animals, no doubt, but some of us just do not gain any energy from interaction. This is hardwired.
Some things are hardwired, other things are not. Many times something won't be hardwired but people can make so simply because they want to believe it is.

Hardwiring/nature/whatever is something people believe in when they feel their circumstances insurmountable, when they fear taking on the challenges that would result in change, when staying the way one is would be easier, or when they value what things come automatically to them.
 
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deep

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by PosTMOd
Everyone needs SOME contact. However, some people need VERY little.

Case in point: My oldest sister is 40. She has not had a friend since she was 15 or so. Never had a boyfriend/girlfriend, and she has lived by herself for 25 years. I lived with her for a few months, and she is very happy like that... she needs minimal contact with others.

Is her life empty? From your perspective, yes. Because you do not have the ability to understand that.

I understand many more things than your limited and self serving stereotype of extroverts includes.

It's a good thing your sister is satisfied with her life, because some of the objective psychological fact that goes into my perspective would be inclined to think that it is somewhat unhealthy to not have social contact in meaningful relationships for 25 years. But if she's happy , more power to her.
 

sugar

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by deep
It's a good thing your sister is satisfied with her life, because some of the objective psychological fact that goes into my perspective would be inclined to think that it is somewhat unhealthy to not have social contact in meaningful relationships for 25 years. But if she's happy , more power to her.
To clarify Timo's somewhat bleak description:
His sister does have relationships with members of her family. She is not "shy" among family and close family friends - she interacts just fine (speaking freely, smiling, plays with the kids, etc.). She also works, and presumably has to form some kind of relationships with her coworkers.
 

deep

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by JMan
Hehehehe... is there really such a thing?
Sure there is. History can demonstrate time and time again certain things to the point where people can make generally true about aspects of human existence.
 

deep

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by sugar
To clarify Timo's somewhat bleak description:
His sister does have relationships with members of her family. She is not "shy" among family and close family friends - she interacts just fine (speaking freely, smiling, plays with the kids, etc.). She also works, and presumably has to form some kind of relationships with her coworkers.
Understood. As he mentioned she is satisfied with her life, and in the end that's what's most important- if people can subjectively feel satisfaction from their life's circumstances...not whether they are aligned with what one person considers "optimal".
 
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Liquidity

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by PosTMOd
There is no way to access someone else's secret life...

...Everything you perceive is filtered through your own secret filter. Many problems arise from people assuming that other people's secret filter is the same as theirs, or even similar. Sometimes it certainly seems that way, but there are many ways to the same end (i.e. many ways to skin a cat)...
how do you our secret filters aren't the same if we can't access them?

Originally posted by PosTMOd
extroverts tend to think that everyone is as interested in their lives as they themselves are.
Extroverts tend to be better at talking about their lives and so they often seem like they have more interesting lives than introverts...
 

PosTMOd

Well-Known TRIBEr
Originally posted by deep
Sure there is. History can demonstrate time and time again certain things to the point where people can make generally true about aspects of human existence.
Pyschology tends to measure what is 'normal' and then assign arbitrary limits to that normality.

In other words, a general truth is read from a statistical representation of a non-existent average (normal) person, and if someone doesn't measure up in some way, they are labelled and many times, people try to 'fix' them, instead of accepting that there are different ways to exist.
 

PosTMOd

Well-Known TRIBEr
I don't really know how this ended up being a extrovert versus introvert thing...

What I was getting at more than that was that people have secret lives in addition to private and public lives, and that assumptions made through one's own filters limit how open one is to questioning how and why others are behaving.

And interestingly, the act of observing someone's behaviour (i.e. their public and private behaviour) modifies that behaviour, whether the observed knows they are being observed or not. Quantum psychology ;)
 

Liquidity

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by PosTMOd
I don't really know how this ended up being a extrovert versus introvert thing...

What I was getting at more than that was that people have secret lives in addition to private and public lives, and that assumptions made through one's own filters limit how open one is to questioning how and why others are behaving.
i think your opening post would have been fine without mentioning introverts and extroverts... by implying that introverts have great mysteries and that extroverts are arrogant, you kinda opened up a "versus" debate...

and... i totally agree with you. people can get so self centered that they become unable to comprehend the reasons for other peoples' behaviour. one example is 9/11: americans had a hard time understanding why anybody would do such a thing (a more self centered country is harder to imagine).
 
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