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Politics...

whitelabel_tm

TRIBE Member
Out of curiosity, would anyone not go to Jeff Mills if he came to town because of what happened the last time he came? Does that kind of politics matter to the average clubber? Or not attend the DEMF because of the fiasco with Carl Craig last year? It may not be as strong a lineup as previous years but it's free! Why do people complain when something is free? Why do people complain about something that does not concern them, ie. Mills' attitude or percieved attitude. It makes me wonder if people like drama. I personally think that whether Mills is a diva or not should not matter when he's mixing his fourth dirty track and he's killin' it. He comes correct when he's on the 'wheels of steel'. Anyways, in light of Detroit being in the spotlight...


Interview with Kevin Saunderson:


What’s happening in Detroit at the moment?

“A lot of stuff is going on. KMS has revitalized recently, we’re putting out a lot of local product. We built a couple of studios and we’re getting ready for the (Detroit Electronic Music) festival.”

What’s happening with the DEMF this year?

“Well, Carl Craig is no longer a part of it, but they’ve formed a committee with Juan Atkins, Eddie Fowlkes, Alan Oldham, Mike Grant and a couple of other people who are collecting the talent.”

Do you think it will work as well without Carl’s input?

“I think it will work whatever. People will still come, and there will still be great parties around it. Planet E will be doing a party, so will KMS and Transmat. All of us will be doing stuff around the festival whether we’re part of it or not. The nightlife will be great, so you can almost look at the festival as a bonus!”

It’s the third DEMF this year, how can explain its phenomenal popularity?

“It’s just long overdue. We’ve been making this music since 1982, when Juan started and then me and Derrick (May) came into it in 1985. We can have something in our own backyard that’s successful and captures a good atmosphere too. It’s special to have it here.”

Does it give you an extra sense of pride about what you do for a living?

“It re-inspires you to keep going at it. It certainly helps me!”

Where do you see the techno scene has its strongest bases?

“It seems like everywhere I play seems to be pretty good. Brussels is pretty damn good, they love good music and good techno. You can play pure, and they are really into it.”

What do you think about the US scene? Do you thinks the kids are more concerned about the party and the drugs, or are they keeping the scene alive?

“Well, it’s still growing and the scene is so diverse that kids can find a pocket somewhere to fit into, whether it’s purist techno, the housier stuff or trance or whatever. I did the Area:One tour last year, and they had a really cool tent that held around 4000 people. There was a cross-section of music too, with Paul Oakenfold, Carl Cox, myself, Derrick May, Juan and some other cats. But the crowd was getting down, and getting down with the funky stuff too, so that showed me that there’s a lot of room for education and to develop the scene still.”
 
Stop Bill C-10

oddmyth

TRIBE Member
Was Mills supposed to play last year?? I don't remember to be honest but I don't think he was on the bill.

He was there though, he arrived early Sunday afternoon, and checked in. I think it was during Garniers set. Maybe not though I could be confused with the first year too. I've spent way too much time drunk in Hart plaza :rolleyes:

DEMF will be great either way. Mills is the drama king, I would still go see him though.

Oh well..

[odd]?[io]
 

tommysmalls

TRIBE Member
all that prima donna shit that was exploited by 514 productions just disgusts me - every story has at least 3 angles, and the story everyone wants to hear is he's an overpaid, overhyped, graceless, superstar, money-whoring dj.

FUCK THAT!

i would and have traveled 5 hours just to see him, and if he came to town, i would most certainly pay to see him again - for someone thats been doing what he's doing for as long as he has, he still tears shit up like nobodies business, and is doing it the same way - HARD!!! He's expanding his repetoire with his 909 work, and his work on the soundtrack for metropolis is just stunning.

he is an artist. a damn good one!
 

BigBadBaldy

TRIBE Member
For real. As I have stated before, I would go hear Jeff Mills spin ANYTIME he comes to town, regardless of any scene-second-third-fourth-hand gossip about him, his demands, his attitude. For Christ's sake, I'm not going to a dinner party where I have to have conversations with him, I'm going to hear him spin sick tracks and fuck me up techno style. The politics of the scene really only touch me as a partier when they evolve into someone not coming to Toronto for a specific reason. Prima-donna or not, Jeff Mills has always killed me when I've caught him, and I eagerly await the next time.

As far as the DEMF/Carl Craig thing goes, he got shafted, but I don't know enough about the real story to boycott anything. Even if I did, it really has nothing to do with me, and other than making a mouse-fart statement by not going, who really cares other than Carl, his friends, and those directly involved. I think the scene is done more of a disservice by people NOT attending, as DEMF is a good opportunity to show the general public, through media, a little something of the support the music really has.

I dunno, just rambling again.

BBB.

..been doing that a lot lately.
 

Simplistik

TRIBE Member
Personally, I'd rather see a dj that cares about how he/she sounds, and one that wants the audience to see what a kick ass dj they are as opposed to one that is completely devoid of emotion behind the decks, even if caring means breaking a few records :D. I've seen both of these types of djs and when it comes down to it, I just want to see someone who spins (or produces) a type of musik that I like, and one that has talent, whether it be in their programing, mixing or track selection (locals and international djs alike). It would take an extreme amount of politics or drama to be associated with a particular dj for me not to go see them. I'm not saying that I don't enjoy seeing a dj who entertains a crowd with is musik and his enthusiasm, i just think that's an added bonus.

peace

*if it feels good, do it... and if it sounds good, listen*
 
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tEkKiD

TRIBE Promoter
well you all know i would see the fucker ;)


was supposed to see him just recently in Detroit with May (nov) but couldnt get time off....

anyhow....
 

ian

TRIBE Member
For me, his (Mills) behavior the last time he was here was just the icing on the cake. I've brought him in before at Industry as well, and he was an anoying prima donna then (one of his demands was that if he even *saw* a flash that he *thought might* be a camera anywhere in the club he would walk off the decks immediately.

Way back then Kenny Glasgow schooled his ass (not saying Mills didn't pull off a decent set) so I'm not letting him off on the supreme artist loophole. I can't believe Mills is still making a living off of playing the same old tired records, with the same old boring monolithic techno sound. So 1998 IMHO. The man has skills, and his Sickness/Recovery set back in '96 is still #3 on my all time list, but he really needs to progress musically, and drop the attitude.

So to answer the original question, yes, a DJs behavior is enough to make me not go out of my way to see them, although they would have to actually be a criminal or something before I would totally boycott them.

-ian guthrie
 

BigBadBaldy

TRIBE Member
You're definitely in a position to experience a lot of things that the average partier (like me) would never have to worry about, thereby giving you more of a knowledge base to fuel your opinions. I can see how his attitude would influence you a lot more than me on the floor.

BBB.

..and I've only caught him 3 times, so I don't know about him "flogging the same old tired records" (paraphrase) either. I think not being a DJ has its advantages as far as being able to more blindly enjoy the music.
 

seeker

TRIBE Member
i thought about this when i read about the whole 'prima-donna' thing in tribe way back when. at the time i was pretty disappointed -- i felt let down as a clubbing consumer. but as has been pointed out, there are more sides to every story, and you're there to get down to the music, not necessarily the person's attitude.

case in point: i had the opportunity to see guns n roses (i know, but i'll show the relevance here, i promise! ;)) in the early nineties. this was at the time when they were huge (a la mills in the techno scene), and it was well known that axl rose had serious attitude. both times that i saw them there were (supposed) threats that they wouldn't play, and delays before they took the stage. both times they absolutely killed (in a good way). looking back, i'd have seen them many more times than i did if i had the chance.

same thing with mills. i haven't been able to see him yet, but if he was playing and i could make it, i'd be there. he may very well be an ass as a person, but he can pound it out as good as anybody.

as far as carl craig and DEMF goes, if people are worried about the calibre of talent that may or may not be available since his departure, i think they only have to look as far as the 'committee' thats been set up for this year's: atkins, fowlkes, oldham, etc. are all at the top of the detroit scene. i think the festival will come off fine. it is a shame that craig's no longer involved though.
 

whitelabel_tm

TRIBE Member
For me, his (Mills) behavior the last time he was here was just the icing on the cake. I've brought him in before at Industry as well, and he was an anoying prima donna then (one of his demands was that if he even *saw* a flash that he *thought might* be a camera anywhere in the club he would walk off the decks immediately.

...he is not the only dj that hates having his photo taken. His shyness for being photgraphed should not be scrutinized.



Way back then Kenny Glasgow schooled his ass (not saying Mills didn't pull off a decent set) so I'm not letting him off on the supreme artist loophole. I can't believe Mills is still making a living off of playing the same old tired records, with the same old boring monolithic techno sound. So 1998 IMHO. The man has skills, and his Sickness/Recovery set back in '96 is still #3 on my all time list, but he really needs to progress musically, and drop the attitude.

....legitimate reason for not seeing Mills is that he might be boring. But what if he's not this time around? Is there a dj that is cutting edge impressive every time around? Or do you see a particular dj expecting a 'style' unlike what he is known for? You don't see Mills expecting Hawtin, etc,. :rolleyes:



So to answer the original question, yes, a DJs behavior is enough to make me not go out of my way to see them, although they would have to actually be a criminal or something before I would totally boycott them.

...for example Murat? In the end, I guess it's just how you feel about the party and if you think you'll have a good time. If you're bored before you leave the house... ;)

...hey Ian, make sure to come to Krome!



Seeker, the new DEMF panel is not the top of the Detroit techno community. Recognized but definitely not the ones that wield the influence.
 
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tEkKiD

TRIBE Promoter
Originally posted by whitelabel_tm
...he is not the only dj that hates having his photo taken. His shyness for being photgraphed should not be scrutinized.



Way back then Kenny Glasgow schooled his ass (not saying Mills didn't pull off a decent set) so I'm not letting him off on the supreme artist loophole. I can't believe Mills is still making a living off of playing the same old tired records, with the same old boring monolithic techno sound. So 1998 IMHO. The man has skills, and his Sickness/Recovery set back in '96 is still #3 on my all time list, but he really needs to progress musically, and drop the attitude.

....

no the whole UR camp hates their photo being taken. Its their image. respect that. There pictures isnt necessary to judge their skills...(mills)

by the way Kenny schooled who?? Jeff?? Kenny playing JEFF MILLS TRACKS?

dont get me wrong Kenny is good, but dude, your judging TWO DIFFERENT styles here...night and day.... progress? he has..... have you ventured into your local record shops...obviously you have set him so high up on pedistal his tracks "now" don't reach you......

eleaborate "monolithic" techno sound??


Jeff Mills can move any dance floor and move a crowd better than anyone else..... admit it. His attitude is earned.


respect.


peace.
 

poker face

TRIBE Member
Actually I don't really think Jeff is that good of a dj, so I don't understand why people care about him so much?

I don't even think his production is that good!

lee <-- personal opinion.
 

Dave Lee

TRIBE Member
I'd have to agree with the mills haters out there

Mills as a producer and as a DJ is irrelevant in 2002

That's not an opinion... that's reality

dave
 
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BigBadBaldy

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Dave Lee
I'd have to agree with the mills haters out there

Mills as a producer and as a DJ is irrelevant in 2002

That's not an opinion... that's reality

dave

That's not an opinion..

BBB.

..that's arrogance. Irrelevant to you is not irrelevant to everyone. :p
 

tommysmalls

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Dave Lee
I'd have to agree with the mills haters out there

Mills as a producer and as a DJ is irrelevant in 2002

That's not an opinion... that's reality

dave

umm.....sounds like an opinion to me dave.

for starters, his work on the metropolis soundtrack, and performing live with the movie, is far from being irrelevant.

and further yet, his 2 live at the liquid room sets (1995, 2000) are still quite relevant today, even though they might not suit your palette.

cheers,
tommy
 

Dave Lee

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by tommysmalls


umm.....sounds like an opinion to me dave.

for starters, his work on the metropolis soundtrack, and performing live with the movie, is far from being irrelevant.

and further yet, his 2 live at the liquid room sets (1995, 2000) are still quite relevant today, even though they might not suit your palette.

cheers,
tommy

I never said it didn't suit my palette. I have most of the CDs Mills has put out and I still listen to the Purpose Maker catalogue pretty regularly.

What I am saying is that Jeff Mills is not pushing his art forward. I don't think the Axis label has made any forward movement for at least the past 4-5 years. And as far as Metropolis goes, sure it might be a decent CD and the concept sure has its redeeming values but is it innovative? No. Is it relevant to pushing techno farther? No. It might be doing the job of making the public aware that techno can be art and vice versa, which is good, but it's not groundbreaking like he was way back when.

There are innovative people in techno and there are groundbreakers and there are relevant people in the banging techno scene or minmal hard techno scene. I just don't think Mills is one of them any more.

If anything I would say someone like Ellen Alien and her Bpitch Control label is more relevant than Mills.

I'd even go as far as to say that Richie Hawtin is much more relevant than Mills ever was or is. I might not like his DJ sets much anymore but the man did release two of the (most likely) best selling techno mix CDs in recent memory.

dave
 

Dave Lee

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by BigBadBaldy


That's not an opinion..

BBB.

..that's arrogance. Irrelevant to you is not irrelevant to everyone. :p

Lemme put it this way...

Do you think the latest EP Every Dog has It's Day Vol. 3 is relevant to the direction that techno is taking? Is it any different from the first release on Axis?

And just so we don't end up arguing semantics, relevant to me means that it's doing something to further the art of techno. Like I was saying to tommy, I like the man's tunes but it's just middle of the road stuff nowadays.

What I didn't mean to say by saying Mills is irrelvant was not to suggest that he trash and someone should take him out to the curb 'cause he's not good for anything anymore.

dave
 
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tommysmalls

TRIBE Member
i agree with much of what you're saying dave

BUT

creating and performing a live techno soundtrack to perhaps the most famous silent movie ever made is, to me, progressive and relevant....i mean the grand opening was at the pompidou center in paris after all

....in fact i believe mr. hawtpants opened for him

i agree that hawtin is more relevant to the masses now more than he ever was due to de909 and even more so with closer to the edit --- its a shame that mills didn't make more of a splash with metropolis, but are you going to fault his relevance because his lack of marketing? or is it because you think his work lacks artistic merit?
 

derek

TRIBE Member
I will be in Detroit on Saturday for Mills pa to Metropolis; I'll be sure to update on how it was.

Now my 2 cents.....what is groundbreaking in Techno these days?

My answer would be...it depends on the individual. The truly groundbreaking Techno for me was in 87 - 90 (all the Detroit crew) along with a tonne of house too. Then I went a few year shearing good techno, but not groundbreaking techno. Then came CJ Bolland and The Advent's "Elements of Life" album; of course I can't forget Monolake and Maurizio. That pretty much somes up groundbreaking Techno for me.

I like Ellen Alien and her Bpitch Control label. She has some really cool shit, but groundbreaking is pushing it. Plus she's not that great of a DJ. Comparing the relevance of what she brings to Techno vs. the relevance of what Jeff Mills brings to Techno is actually irrelevant. I do understand the arguement of Jeff not really changing his sound, though, and agree; he's also not my favorite DJ, but I have alot of respect for what he's done, and wouldn't write him off just yet, cause I'm sure he'll shock all of us soon.

Of course this is just my opinion based on my life experiences with Techno, and dance music in general.

Cheers,

Derek
 
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