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Palestinian Civil War?

Deep_Groove

TRIBE Member
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip March 1 — Gunmen shot and killed a well-known adviser to Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat in Gaza City early Tuesday, security officials said...

...In other recent internal strife, rival groups opened fire on each other after an armed man slapped the police chief. A policeman was killed in the exchange that followed.

That conflict involved Arafat's forces and men loyal to Gaza strongman Mohammed Dahlan, an Arafat rival.

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040301_2141.html
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This violence and terrorism is totally just an understandable response to the Arafat, um, occupation...

- Deep_Groove
 
Alex D. from TRIBE on Utility Room

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
The notion of the Palestinians as a single people is as silly as it gets. Its a tterritory under the control of armed factions at best.

Cell based organization is great for organized resistance but it doesn't leave the leadership necessary for a revolution. Unlike a Fidel who educated his key fighters for the purposes of running a government in a top down approach none of the groups in Palestine could afford to have visible leadership less they simply become captured and a greater source of trouble.

Inheritly its the major disadvantage in that victory becomes unubtainable in there form of conflict.

[0QUOTE]Originally posted by Deep_Groove
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip March 1 — Gunmen shot and killed a well-known adviser to Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat in Gaza City early Tuesday, security officials said...

...In other recent internal strife, rival groups opened fire on each other after an armed man slapped the police chief. A policeman was killed in the exchange that followed.

That conflict involved Arafat's forces and men loyal to Gaza strongman Mohammed Dahlan, an Arafat rival.

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040301_2141.html
-----------------

This violence and terrorism is totally just an understandable response to the Arafat, um, occupation...

- Deep_Groove
[/QUOTE]
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by OTIS
That's right Ditto, and they settled there post Isreal right?


Nope, I'm not saying that they aren't a people, I'm not saying that they aren't rightfully a nation.

All I'm saying is that the last 15 years have pretty much ended any chance of them developing as one in the near future. I'm not placing any blame I'm not pointing to the source only describing a reality from my perspective.

Same thing that ultimately fucks Afghanistan ultimately fucks Palestine and I believe that it is ultimately what is fucking Ireland. The nature of a cell based resistance movement leaves no head in control. Thus you can't knock out the resistance by killing any one member only inspire them.

Unfortunately victory is not determined until the cells have it at one another.
 
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Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by bambam
I blame oslo one and two

No shortage of blame to go around or people to chare in it.

10,000 years of blame and a buck and a quarter might still buy you a coffee.
 

Deep_Groove

TRIBE Member
These events underscore what I've been saying about the fundamental nature of Palestinian society. Ultimately, there is no one really in control. It's just a lot of angry people with lots of weapons and loyalty to whatever clan or political group is advocating whatever appears to be their particular interests.

In that sense, it's silly to say "the Palestinians are demanding a state beside Israel, that's what this is all about. They most certainly are not; there is no "they" and "they" don't even really know what they want. Some, like Hamas, demand a total uprising to eliminate Israel and replace it with an Islamic theocracy. (And don't underestimate that consituency!). Some, like Arafat, like to use negotiations when it suits them and violence when it suits them, in the hopes of wringing the greatest number of concessions out of Israel before gaining sovereignty, from which to get a more secure position to continue the struggle. Some are merely reacting to their natural displeasure at seeing foreign troops in their streets.

None can say what form a Palestinian state would take, what would be its political and economic principles, how it would deal with its Jewish citizens (the people now ridiculously called "settlers")

Arafat stays in power because he's seen as being the best at advancing perceived Palestinian historical grieveances. The minute that perception changes (as we can see it may already be) there is no recourse for the Palestinian people except violence to get rid of him, since he will not voluntarily give up power. Such is the nature of dictatorial systems. Who can negotiate peace terms with Israel? Who is the legitimate authority in a society organized around tribal lines and held together by the arbitrary power of one man?

It's a mess, and the Israelis are trying to deal with it the best they can. Right now, that includes fighting the terrorism that comes out of such an unhappy, repressed, fragmented society.

- Deep_Groove
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Deep_Groove


It's a mess, and the Israelis are trying to deal with it the best they can. Right now, that includes fighting the terrorism that comes out of such an unhappy, repressed, fragmented society.

- Deep_Groove


Problem is the heavy handed approach they are taking. I can't exactly support Tyranny and damned if it don't look like that.
 

derek

TRIBE Member
^^^

i agree, and to boot the israeli's have far more weapons than the palestinians do; in response to the angry people with lots of weapons reference in Deep Grooves post. israel's heavy handed approach also helps increase a unhappy, repressed, fragmented society. not just for palestinians but for israeli's as well.

peace,

derek
 
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