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Outkast's indian performance during the grammys

R4V4G3D_SKU11S

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Evil Dynovac

Doesn't leave much room for truly open discussion but I agree that it's the right thing to do.
?

I can't tell if you're being serious - a truly open discussion about what? A discussion where you can get it out that Natives are really just a bunch of drunkards, and the tons of research done into why there is such a huge pattern of alcoholism in their culture is just a bunch of politically correct bullshit?
 

vveerrgg

TRIBE Promoter
sounds like the whole bunch of you bleeding hearts still need to get off your asses and find a real reason to be upset.

you didn't like his performance.... too bad.

it was a great stage show. a great mockery of everything you liberal minded forget about history lets pretend to be friends and not poke fun at each other try to run from.

thank you Will for calling it like I see it too! if you're gonna get pissed at that, then why not point fingers at modern culture at large......? there isn't an original thought out there that doesn't in one way or another draw from another culture. and at some level every one of those cross culture ideas can be warped into some negative connotation.

the grammys happened MONTHS ago. why this is suddenly an issue? where were you when it happened? if you didn't like it then... why didn't you bring it up then?

what? you didn't cause you really didnt care enough.... then STFU.
 

R4V4G3D_SKU11S

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Evil Dynovac
But where does Outkast's use of the warbonnet and teepee fall into your above statement? When was the warbonnet and teepee employed to destroy a culture?
The warbonnet and teepee were used as images/propoganda to make the Native Culture a lesser/savage/strange one, in order to make the wiping out of their culture palatable to the public.
 

Booty Bits

TRIBE Member
i just think that if you're gonna go waving around some idea of drunken native homeless people as some discredit to the native culture, you're disregarding what forces actually landed them there, drunk, homeless, away from their community and fucking miserable.
 
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Silvershadow

TRIBE Member
I dunno... on the one hand, I can sort of see why some people would find this offensive...

On the other hand, you don't see me getting all up in arms and writing articles whenever I see a French guy portrayed on TV as wearing a beret and a black and white striped shirt, carrying a baguette under his arm and saying "Zut alors!". Or when they're being called/compared to frogs.

Sure, it makes me roll my eyes a lot... but the only time I get pissed off is when people are actually maliciously making fun of my culture or of me BECAUSE of my culture. When they're just using stupid stereotypes, I just find it shows exactly how ignorant they are, and like I said, I usually roll my eyes and let it go. People are dumb, and are usually in a BIG rush to show exactly how much.

But then again, I don't come from Native culture, so what seems just stupid and ridiculous to me might be downright offensive to them.
 

Booty Bits

TRIBE Member
vveerrgg, people gave a shit about it directly after the performance happened.
conversations took place, articles were written, petitions circulated etc.
it seems like only swilly was late to jump on this train.
 

vveerrgg

TRIBE Promoter
Originally posted by R4V4G3D_SKU11S
Here is my cartoon of vvergg:



Is it still as funny when its you?
yup.

even more fuct up..... in the context of this thread. you couldn't have picked a better example of an inappropreate way of "poking fun" at another culture.

there's nothing fun, fancy or even entertaining with that cartoon. UNLIKE THE OUTKAST SHOW! which was everything this cartoon isnt!
 

Evil Dynovac

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by R4V4G3D_SKU11S
The warbonnet and teepee were used as images/propoganda to make the Native Culture a lesser/savage/strange one, in order to make the wiping out of their culture palatable to the public.
Weird! When Indian dancers wear their headress at the pow wow they have at Ryerson every summer it looks beautiful and stirring, but when Andree 3000 wears the warbonnet he's mocking the culture.

OH I GET IT! This is the same as that word black people use but white people can't use!

The problem with this whole cultural representation/misrepresentation thing is that it lacks the ability to discern INTENTION. Listen, the fact is that Andre 3000 sported (a variant on) Indian ceremonial dress for the same reason that I go to the pow wow in the summer, because it's flashy and cool looking. His intention is to wear a funky costume that would wow his audience.

Cultural tolerance, political correctness, can easily become censorship if we disregard intention and forgo logic.
 
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vveerrgg

TRIBE Promoter
Originally posted by Silvershadow
the only time I get pissed off is when people are actually maliciously making fun of my culture or of me BECAUSE of my culture. When they're just using stupid stereotypes, I just find it shows exactly how ignorant they are, and like I said, I usually roll my eyes and let it go. People are dumb, and are usually in a BIG rush to show exactly how much.
you hit the nail on the head!

if it isn't malicious then why would it be offensive? I did not find the show a malicious attack on all things native.

although that comic is a maclicious stereotype on all things black. way to go R4V4G3D_SKU11S thanks for the shining example.

EDIT: props to Evil Dynovac for again... driving home the points that needed to be said.
 
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Evil Dynovac

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by vveerrgg
yup.

even more fuct up..... in the context of this thread. you couldn't have picked a better example of an inappropreate way of "poking fun" at another culture.

there's nothing fun, fancy or even entertaining with that cartoon. UNLIKE THE OUTKAST SHOW! which was everything this cartoon isnt!
Skull's heart is in the right place, but like I said before he makes no matter of intention.

The intention of that picture is to mock and belittle.

The intention of Outkast was to parade around in pretty clothes.
 

R4V4G3D_SKU11S

TRIBE Member
Nothing funny or entertaining to you - I'm sure lots of people would have a great laugh about it - its a cartoon! But I guess those people are bad, because they are using stereotypes that have been historically used denigrate your race. Look past your own nose.
 

mingster

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Booty Bits
mingster, i don't think you're going to find a satisfactory answer to your question.
outkast is big on costumes and ridiculous get-ups for their live performances, and i think the native theme was just the next idea of andre 3000's list.

gotcha. that's a good answer.

i kinda feel that the arbitrary choosing of native culture to stylize their show, without it serving some other purpose is kind of insulting and ignorant.
 
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R4V4G3D_SKU11S

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Evil Dynovac
The intention of that picture is to mock and belittle.

The intention of Outkast was to parade around in pretty clothes.
Screw intention - its something to hide behind when you get called on a move that backfired because you were too stupid to look beyond your own nose.

If I think that the swastika looks cools, it becomes OK to wear it? I mean, I'm not a Nazi or an anti-semite by any means!

Regardless of the intention behind why they wore it, you can't just gloss over the the fact that they were sporting symbols that another culture finds extremely hateful.
 

Evil Dynovac

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by R4V4G3D_SKU11S
Nothing funny or entertaining to you - I'm sure lots of people would have a great laugh about it - its a cartoon! But I guess those people are bad, because they are using stereotypes that have been historically used denigrate your race. Look past your own nose.
Ridiculous! You are lumping these things together. You seem to have lost the ability to discern what is truly right and wrong.
 

rejenerate

TRIBE Member
This performance was three months ago...why the hubbub now?

Hey, did you guys hear about Janet Jackson and her boob?
 
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JAR

TRIBE Member
yesterday my native neighbour came over and told me some jokes about native people. would it be racist for me to share them with others?
 

physix

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Syntax Error
it's really hard to find a good biscuit in this city. last decent one i had was in the states.
do you guys even have like Popeye's Chicken (speakin of stereotypes ;) )... ? they hav ethe best of any like fast food chain


Church's Chicken, too.
 

JAR

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by physix
do you guys even have like Popeye's Chicken (speakin of stereotypes ;) )... ? they hav ethe best of any like fast food chain


Church's Chicken, too.
there are a few in the city.
 

Syntax Error

Well-Known TRIBEr
yes we have a popeye's, we also have running water and first nations peoples. the biscuits from popeye's are alright but i've had better(i forget where though).
 
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