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Ontario Elections

416

TRIBE Member
In light of Bass Chaser's recent comment that this forum contains nothing but talk of American's and their imperialist wars, I thought maybe it'd be a good time for everyone to spill the beans on who they plan to vote for... if they've decided yet... and if they haven't, why?

I'm personally going to vote NDP. Three main reasons really.

1. Hampton. He's a hot head. He's got a short fuse and is generally entertaining to watch in a scrum. But it's not just the entertainment factor. I tend to trust that what's comming out of an emotionally charged person's mouth is the truth and is what that person is actually thinking.

2. They plan to repo hydro. I feel very strongly about publicly owned utilities. Electricity, has become an essential service in Canada, and as such, I don't trust private business with it.

3. The NDP always comes out in favour of spending. Which I equate to investment in the economy. Which I also beleive we need a little more of right now. Our unemployment rate is at about 7-8%, and looks poised to rise in light of anticipated conditions south of the border. I think a little government spending spree will close the gap between the high and low income earners and little more, and encourage a little more consumption.

The only thing they've got on their platform that I don't like is a commitment to stop building CANDUs. I feel those reactors are slick and want to see their use more widespread in Canada.

That's about it. Anyone else?
 
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Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
I'm voting NDP. Every time I go to an event that I care about (whether it be a pro-peace rally or a Louis Riel memorial) Hampton is there, talking about things that make sense. When I read the news I see what Eves is up to, he strikes me as a shark trying to disguise itself in shallow water, waiting for the legitimacy of an actual election before he strikes. Something really unnerves me about that guy. He looks and acts like a shady car salesman.

And the liberals... well I've had enough of them for now, even with Chretiens highly entertaining moves these past few months.
 

zorak

TRIBE Member
ndp for sure.

hampton is experienced and a good speaker. he's firm about his beliefs (which happen to fall in line with mine).

ernie eves is a scandalous piece o shite.
 

Littlest Hobo

TRIBE Member
I reviewed 'Public Power' and I think I agree with only 2 things the NDP wants.

I guess I'm going to vote for the least biggest group of idiots (process of elimination). The NDP are off that list.
 

416

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by zorak

ernie eves is a scandalous piece o shite.

...and the economist called him "a real dandy". Which is probably the funniest thing in the world to call someone.
 
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416

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Littlest Hobo
I reviewed 'Public Power' and I think I agree with only 2 things the NDP wants.

I guess I'm going to vote for the least biggest group of idiots (process of elimination). The NDP are off that list.

boooooooooooooooooooo

Elaborate.
 

zorak

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by 416
...and the economist called him "a real dandy". Which is probably the funniest thing in the world to call someone.


lol

apparently even the globe's been dissing ernie up lately.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
I can't vote NDP, not after the horror that was the Bob rae government. I won't vote for them for another 20 years until they have matured as a party or until they have served as an opposition or untill they have been involved in a minority government. Its not that I don't like there policies its that they have yet to show me there ability for restraint.

I have issues with voting PC (always have) but they tend to be my second choice. Not because of there leadership and not because of there policies but I think they haven't done a half bad job in government. Privatizing electricity was a horrible mistake, on the same token our electricity has been subsidized far to long and people don't understand this fact. Additionally I don't see energy prices ever comming down, not in the near or distant future. I did however thing that there restructuring of municiple versus provinicial fundng was a tad dubious. I do however like the standardized testing in schools.

Really I'm picking the liberals, I dislike Dalton more than the other two, I think he is incompitant. However i think he also has the ability to do as little as possible. He lacks ambition and if nothing else this is attractive to me. The status quo is working just great for me, I don't have kids, my hospital visits are for visiting purposes only. Really I want things to have 8 years to setttle down after some fairly ambitious activities over the last 7 years.


I'm voting for the least of three evils. We have an over ambitious PC leader, an NDP government that waisted half its term the last time and spent the other half debating funding for social programs that simply never worked. This leaves me picking the most useless tit in the bunch and hoping his incompitance prevents him from accomplishing anything.
 

Subsonic Chronic

TRIBE Member
As long as the teachers unions don't try to convince everyone to do that targetted voting crap, I'll be happy. What a mess that became, and they didn't even prevent the Tories from taking another win.

I'm totally opposed to Ernie Eves and the PC party. I've had enough of their crap and downloading of services. They've made a pretty big mess of the province over the past 8 years with the Walkerton tragedy, the Dudley George murder in Ipperwash, the bumbling on the Ontario Hydro sale, the sale of the 407 for half it's value (that was pure Eves too), and more.

Dalton comes across as a plastic man, but he seems to have good ideas for education and could be a good guy. I don't know much about Howard Hampton, but I didn't like the way he came across ni the last election. I'll likely end up voting NDP, and hope that they've learned their mistakes about overspending from the last time they held the provincial leadership. It will depend on the platforms though, and it will probably come down (like always) to chosing between the lesser of two evils.

With the Liberals, you get a bunch of great ideas and promises, but almost zero follow-through on them. Prime example: The red book.

With the NDP, you get the same great ideas and promises, but they almost go a little too far and overspend, a sort of "common sense revolution" on the other end of the political spectrum.

Pete
 

Vote Quimby

TRIBE Member
In case anyone hadn't already guessed, PC.

While I have some problems with the way they have handled things, they present the best chance for Ontario as a province.

What people seem to forget when they talk about boosting spending, which is what the NDP and Liberals plan to do, is that you have to pay for it. Neither of those two parties has has said how they would fund an increase in spending.

Raise taxes? Not only would they be villified by the public, they would also kill the growth of Ontario's economy. And if the economy stops growing, or contracts, then there is less money for them to spend at a time when they would need to spend more.

As long as the economy continues to grow, then there are increased revenue streams, even with lowered taxes. Which means that even the Tories can boost spending.

I believe that I read that in the Tories budget of last week, total spending is $4 billion more then Bob Rae's govt.

As for Education and Health Care, the Tories seem to be the only party willing to demand accountability for how the money is spent. All 3 parties will increase spending, but it's how that money is spent that concerns me.

After Al Rosen audited the TDSB he found that there was grave mismanagement and waste. Most people thought he was just a gov't stooge. What most people don't know is that the Canadian Taxpayers federation audited their books as well, and came up with the same conclusions.

Even Adam Vaughan of CITY, went to their new headquarters and found two brand new Sony Wega 35 inch TV's that were for video confrencing. Approx cost $2000 each. Where's the accountability in that purchase?

I'm voting PC, but should the Liberals or the NDP win, I just hope they learn that throwing money at a problem is not the correct solution.
 
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AdRiaN

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by 416
I tend to trust that what's comming out of an emotionally charged person's mouth is the truth and is what that person is actually thinking.
Really? I would assume that an emotionally charged person is foregoing rational thought in favour of catchy slogans and poorly constructed arguments.

But that's just me.
 

Vote Quimby

TRIBE Member
Re: Re: Ontario Elections

Originally posted by AdRiaN
Really? I would assume that an emotionally charged person is foregoing rational thought in favour of catchy slogans and poorly constructed arguments.

But that's just me.
I would have to agree.
 

416

TRIBE Member
Re: Re: Ontario Elections

Originally posted by AdRiaN
Really? I would assume that an emotionally charged person is foregoing rational thought in favour of catchy slogans and poorly constructed arguments.

But that's just me.

?

It's not like the dude is going around half cocked, all the time. He's just got a tendancy to blurt that I really appreciate. It's honest and less contrived then a "rational" budget speech delivered at a private business.
 

AdRiaN

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by 416
2. They plan to repo hydro. I feel very strongly about publicly owned utilities. Electricity, has become an essential service in Canada, and as such, I don't trust private business with it.
Why not give private business a shot? Doesn't $38 billion in accumulated debt indicate some level of failure on the part of public ownership?

Also, keep in mind that regulation of the electricity system has been strengthened since the Tories took power. The Ontario Energy Board (OEB) has a clearer mandate to protect consumers and provide incentives for utilities to find operating efficiencies. The OEB also has more control over the mandating of new transmission interconnections to improve system reliability.

Howard Hampton believes that we can remove 9,700 MW of fossil plants from Ontario in 4 years and still somehow have enough power to meet demand (without any new nuclear, by the way). He also believes the government -- ie., the taxpayers -- should assume all risk for building additional capacity, instead of the private sector.

Howard Hampton does not realize that keeping electricity prices artificially low provides no incentive for consumers to cut back their consumption. People should be shocked by how much electricity costs to produce and consume. Isn't that what environmentalists have been saying all along?
 

416

TRIBE Member
Adrian, I agree with most of your points.

My main argument for repoing hydro isn't that the cost of electricity is too high. I could really give a shit. Even with the rate doubling I still found per Kwh costs to be resonable, and I strongly agree that higher consumption costs will lead to lower usage.

I would also tend to agree that Hydro's debt. is proof of it's mismanagement. However I think the point at which we diverge is that I beleive the solution lies in correcting the system, and not just selling the silly thing.

Let's assume that the Gov. and private business can generate elctricity at the same cost... which makes sense to me because they will both have to incure the same material and labour costs. I know it's a leap of faith, but we can do it with health care, so just gimme the benifit of the doubt for a second. Wouldn't the prescence of shareholders demanding profits only serve to raise the end cost to consumers and other business?

How is that a good thing?
 
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AdRiaN

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by 416
Wouldn't the prescence of shareholders demanding profits only serve to raise the end cost to consumers and other business?
By that logic ... the government should run ALL businesses, right? You seem to be suggesting that prices for every good and service could be reduced by eliminating all profits in the economy.
 

416

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by AdRiaN
By that logic ... the government should run ALL businesses, right? You seem to be suggesting that prices for every good and service could be reduced by eliminating all profits in the economy.

hehe.. ummm... no... I would hate that... ummmm..

hardy har.

As much as I used to like that idea in my younger years, I'm not suggesting that at all. What I am suggesting is that profit should be removed from some industries that are generally deemed infrastructure by most Canadians.

Corrections... water supply... electricity... education... health care... defence... highways... I could name a few more...
 

AdRiaN

TRIBE Member
What about the food supply? Is food not essential enough of a good to warrant public ownership (production, distribution, and retail)?

Nonetheless, you seem to be ignoring the structures and regulations in place to ensure that Ontario has a safe and reliable supply of electricity. Nobody is suggesting that we allow private companies to run wild. The OEB and Independent Market Operator (IMO) have a strict mandate to ensure that our supply is secure and consumers are protected.
 

KickIT

TRIBE Member
I'm going to wait for the debates. I really hope that Dalton has taken Debating 101. I can't believe the Liberals still kept him after the last elections. Dude got DESTROYED in the debates.

*c*
 

416

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by AdRiaN
What about the food supply? Is food not essential enough of a good to warrant public ownership (production, distribution, and retail)?

?

The food supply is already subsidised. Also, distribution and sale IS publicly controlled when needed (times of war specifically).


Originally posted by AdRiaN
Nonetheless, you seem to be ignoring the structures and regulations in place to ensure that Ontario has a safe and reliable supply of electricity. Nobody is suggesting that we allow private companies to run wild. The OEB and Independent Market Operator (IMO) have a strict mandate to ensure that our supply is secure and consumers are protected.

How am I ignoring that?

I'm simply asking, how does it benefit the people of Ontario to privatize their electricity generation?

Also, since tax payers have to "retire the debt." of Hydro anyway, where does the benifit of selling it come in?
 
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KickIT

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by AdRiaN
The OEB and Independent Market Operator (IMO) have a strict mandate to ensure that our supply is secure and consumers are protected.

Aren't the OEB and IMO appointed by the Premier? If so, do their appointments last until they decide to resign their post? Also, since they are not elected officials, do they have no accountability to the public? If so, then how could such bodies really hold the interests of the public at heart?

*c*
 

~atp~

TRIBE Member
I'm not sure I want to vote. There's no way in fucking hell I'll vode Canadian Alliance and I'm not so sure about NDP because their historical record has been on the side of frivolous spending and overly-strong union support--like unions need any more power than they already fucking have. The NDP also happens to represent ideals that are a little more in line with mine, but I'm still nervous about the practical implementation strategies that NDP government employs.

Liberal is always "safe" because they're "meh" governments--governments that don't really go too strong either way. PC, I'm not sure about either. It all boils down to politics anyway and who can sell their position best regardless of whether or not they actually put words into actions.
 

luvslife

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by ~atp~

Liberal is always "safe" because they're "meh" governments--governments that don't really go too strong either way. PC, I'm not sure about either. It all boils down to politics anyway and who can sell their position best regardless of whether or not they actually put words into actions.

I would vote for the Liberals, seeing as our Federal Gvt will be Liberal forever, I think it would be in Ontario's best interest to have the provincial Liberals running the show, except for one thing.....

DALTON MCGUINTY!


He is such a fucking idiot, I just can't vote for him, and I feel the same as Ditto in regards to the NDP so for me, I'll be voting for Ernie. He's definatly easier to get along with than Mike. Mike did the hard work to get Ontario's economy turned around. It seems like Ernie's gonna start giving some back to the groups who were hurt by all those cuts.
 

xtollo

TRIBE Member
Thus far, PC.

It's still up in the air, I lost A LOT of respect for Dalton after that chocolate bar drama last week. I still can't get over how absurd that was. All of a sudden he's got all the worlds answers for fat kids, when in the meantime we are the middle of a fucking war. Jesus!

I'm actually supporting the PC's because my daddy is the campaign manager for a PC candidate up in Northern Ontario. So I'm trying to support his work too I guess.

I'm a bit of an opportunist when it comes to any election, and I think in this case the PC's will once again establish control of the province.

(btw Adrian, great posts, not bad for an android)
 

Boss Hog

TRIBE Member
seriously, someone please explain to me how the PC's really are good for the people? (benefits to private sector don't count)
 
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