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No kirpans in school, Quebec court rules

Chris

Well-Known TRIBEr
MONTREAL - Security concerns are more important than a Sikh student's right to wear a ceremonial dagger to school, the Quebec Court of Appeal ruled on Thursday.

The ruling overturned a lower court judgment, which had affirmed the right of Gurbaj Singh Multani to wear his kirpan at l'Ecole Sainte-Catherine-Laboure.

The Quebec government, the Marguerite-Bourgeoys school board and the school's administration had all argued against allowing the boy to wear the kirpan to class.

Multani's lawyer said by equating it with a weapon, the ruling betrays ignorance of the kirpan's significance as a religious symbol.

Julius Grey said he would appeal the decision to the Supreme Court of Canada.

Wearing of kirpans is considered essential by devout Sikhs. They consider it a reminder of the constant struggle between good and evil.

Kirpans can be any size, but are often just a few inches long and worn underneath the clothing. Wearing one has been compared to the miniature crosses worn by devout Christians.
 
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Deep_Groove

TRIBE Member
I really don't know WTF they're thinking here....

Has a kirpan ever been used as a weapon? In a Canadian school, let alone ANYWHERE in Canada???

Or are they just trying to channel the recently-illustrated prejudices of their genetic brethren on the Old Continent? (see: hijab) for the purpose of their own (somewhat frightening) ethno-linguisitc self-congratulation?


- Deep_Groove
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Deep_Groove
I really don't know WTF they're thinking here....

Has a kirpan ever been used as a weapon? In a Canadian school, let alone ANYWHERE in Canada???

Or are they just trying to channel the recently-illustrated prejudices of their genetic brethren on the Old Continent? (see: hijab) for the purpose of their own (somewhat frightening) ethno-linguisitc self-congratulation?


- Deep_Groove


Yes in fact they have been used as weapons before!! Although a religous symobol it has to be realized thast to not wear one is not considered a sin or an act of defiance. Unlike the hijab for instance.

Really they don't need a foot long dagger in math class. Tollerent and accepting is one thing. Common sense is another.
 

Deep_Groove

TRIBE Member
Yeah but then again...who is the government to tell me what I can or cannot own and carry around? I protest the anti-drug laws and I protest anti-weapons laws equally...

What was that old saying? "You have the right to swing your fist wherever as you want - until it reaches the tip of my nose"...?

Something like that...

- Deep_Groove
 

derek

TRIBE Member
^^^

know i understand you better.

i'll take your drugs but you can have your weapons (they ain't help nobody)
 
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derek

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Deep_Groove
.

What was that old saying? "You have the right to swing your fist wherever as you want - until it reaches the tip of my nose"...?

Something like that...

- Deep_Groove

don't wait that long. launch a preemptive strike on their ass. wathc their shoulders, and when you see them twitch or move a little...bam...clock that mf.:D
 
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Jazz

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Deep_Groove
I really don't know WTF they're thinking here....

Has a kirpan ever been used as a weapon? In a Canadian school, let alone ANYWHERE in Canada???

that's really not the issue, once again you completely miss the point... it's not only the rights of this one sikh student that must be considered, but in fact the rights of all the students at the school... by allowing any type of weapon into the classroom you're putting them in danger, and thus taking away their right to a safe school environment...
 

judge wopner

TRIBE Member
the issue from a legal standpoint was:

school policy across every province is that no weapons are allowed in class.
the kirpan being a sharp dagger can reasonably expected to be harmful if used as a weapon.

so its banned.

and yeah it has been used as a weapon before plenty of times in ontario at least.
its unfortunate shiks cant wear it but its not worth the price we might pay to allow weapons in school.
 

Puma

TRIBE Member
can I strap my lucky AK47.. to school ?? In my relegion you must cary an ak47 around with you at all times..
 

docta seuss

TRIBE Member
our government cannot be expected to accomadate the needs and traditions of every culture, religion etc.

the fact is that we do have strict weapons laws here, so people have to adhere to them.

that being said, the most simple and obvious solution would be to create some strict guidelines, such as the knives having to be blunted and whatnot. in that case, it would be no more dangerous than a pair of scissors..

a dull knife is hardly a weapon, and it's not a sin to carry around a dull kirpan, is it¿
 
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Deep_Groove

TRIBE Member
I think I heard somewhere in the past about a compromise being struck, maybe in Ontario, where the students were allowed to keep the kirpans but had to have them wrapped in some sort of cloth/duct taped protective padding so they couldn't be just drawn as an impulsive decision in a confrontation.

- Deep_Groove
 

416

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Deep_Groove
I think I heard somewhere in the past about a compromise being struck, maybe in Ontario, where the students were allowed to keep the kirpans but had to have them wrapped in some sort of cloth/duct taped protective padding so they couldn't be just drawn as an impulsive decision in a confrontation.

- Deep_Groove

Ya, I remember that as well. The kirpan had to be sewn into a little cloth baggy thinger, and the student had to agree that it could be inspected by any member of the school faculty at any time for no reason at all to make sure it was still in the bag thingy.
 

judge wopner

TRIBE Member
good.

nice to see canada standing up for whats clearly reasonable and right.

this was a hot issue in peel region back in the day until a kid got stabbed with one, then activists backed off.

the bigger issue was how old does a kid have to be before he gets possesion of one and will they respect it for what it is, a sympbol and not a weapon,
which sadly not all make the proper distinction.
 

Adam

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by 416
Ya, I remember that as well. The kirpan had to be sewn into a little cloth baggy thinger, and the student had to agree that it could be inspected by any member of the school faculty at any time for no reason at all to make sure it was still in the bag thingy.

Agreed..all of the Sikh guys I know were more than content to use the plastic/rubber version, or the type where it's sewn shut and can't be removed.

Apparantly it's already common practice to use the sewn-shut method in government buildings where weapons are prohibited, at least according to a friend's mother who works in the Immigration department. (Essentially people exchanged their traditional versions for a safer version at the door on their way in)
 
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docta seuss

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by PosTMOd
I'm happy. All trivial items that are potentially dangerous should be banned.
try telling a Sikh that his kirpan is a "trivial" item.

poor choice of words, but assuming you intended no disrespect to Sikh's, your point is valid.
 

PosTMOd

Well-Known TRIBEr
Originally posted by docta seuss
try telling a Sikh that his kirpan is a "trivial" item.

poor choice of words, but assuming you intended no disrespect to Sikh's, your point is valid.

It IS trivial, in that in any objective sense, it does not serve a purpose. I have no problem with this, except that it is also potentially dangerous.

It's as trivial as the binkies that candykid ravers suck on. Of course, they aren't dangerous.
 

docta seuss

TRIBE Member
it's trivial to you because you're not a Sikh.

to make the statement that the kirpan is a trivial item is wrong. it's an important aspect of their religion, no matter how senseless it seems to you, to me, or anyone else.

there is no parallel between a Sikh's kirpan, and a candy raver's 'binky'.

tell a jewish person that his yarmulke (kippah) is trivial, or a christian that his cross is.

it's not trivial to them, so who are you to say so. of course seems unimportant to you, because you are not one of them.
 
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Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by docta seuss
it's trivial to you because you're not a Sikh.

to make the statement that the kirpan is a trivial item is wrong. it's an important aspect of their religion, no matter how senseless it seems to you, to me, or anyone else.

there is no parallel between a Sikh's kirpan, and a candy raver's 'binky'.

tell a jewish person that his yarmulke (kippah) is trivial, or a christian that his cross is.

it's not trivial to them, so who are you to say so. of course seems unimportant to you, because you are not one of them.


dude I'd say all religous symbols are trivial to PosTMOd.
 

docta seuss

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Ditto Much
dude I'd say all religous symbols are trivial to PosTMOd.
hey, i'm about as hardcore an atheist as there is. doesn't mean i have to be disrespectful of other folks' traditions and beliefs..
 

windowlicker

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by docta seuss
it's trivial to you because you're not a Sikh.

to make the statement that the kirpan is a trivial item is wrong. it's an important aspect of their religion, no matter how senseless it seems to you, to me, or anyone else.

there is no parallel between a Sikh's kirpan, and a candy raver's 'binky'.

tell a jewish person that his yarmulke (kippah) is trivial, or a christian that his cross is.

it's not trivial to them, so who are you to say so. of course seems unimportant to you, because you are not one of them.

sporting religious symbols means nothing if the person is not willing to take the ideologies of the particular faith to heart
 

windowlicker

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by PosTMOd
It IS trivial, in that in any objective sense, it does not serve a purpose. I have no problem with this, except that it is also potentially dangerous.

It's as trivial as the binkies that candykid ravers suck on. Of course, they aren't dangerous.

Sikhs are required to wear certain things as proof of their faith: kirpan, turban, uncut hair, bracelet, etc.

You're right in a sense- people do tend to take physical symbols of faith too seriously but to compare it to a raver's soother is absurd. The symbols are representative of the ideologies of sikhism: discipline, self restraint, clean living, etc. Sikhs have endured years of oppression including being slaughtered for merely choosing to practice their faith- they wear the symbols out of pride and because, in these times, they can.
 
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