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'No Jews in Gaza': Sharon

Stop Bill C-10

~atp~

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by bambam
I just spoke to a friend in the Israeli army.
No Jews in Gaza = more dead palestinians.

In other words, nothing will change.


Originally posted by beatnik
the irony I see is that, after all the deaths and bloodshed in the futile intifadah, the Palestinians are worse off than before.
Any deal that is struck in the next 5-10 years will be 99% similar to 2000 and/or the Geneva Accord.

Fair enough, so if we take your statement as true, then the fence that you and I are sitting on either side of is idealism vs. realism. I feel like why should the Palestinians get a deal that basically subjects them to a humiliating sort of oppression (well, a passive one) when even the international community admits that Israel's occupation is illegal; would you be content with living within the confines of your home and subjected to searches and/or arrests every time you left your house?
 

expat

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by ~atp~
In other words, nothing will change.

A while back you were the one who said that Israel should just unilaterally pull out --now they are doing that!!
 

bambam

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by ~atp~
In other words, nothing will change.




Fair enough, so if we take your statement as true, then the fence that you and I are sitting on either side of is idealism vs. realism. I feel like why should the Palestinians get a deal that basically subjects them to a humiliating sort of oppression (well, a passive one) when even the international community admits that Israel's occupation is illegal; would you be content with living within the confines of your home and subjected to searches and/or arrests every time you left your house?

SO many problems with palestine. First of all, I havent read all the arguments in this thread, but the fact is that the palestinians are incapable of real negotiations due to their lack of factual evidence, statistics ,surveys, etc, which they cant do and havent been able to do in gaza since '47, because of the restrictions on freedoms, the lack of real universities, the fairly recent (600 years?) development in arab culture of not being open to or able to take any criticism. Because the Oslo agreement made Arafat and his 'Palestinian Authority' the sole spopkespeople for the people of Palestiine (basically bribing Arafat), the agreement gave Israel power to do whatever it wanted, and gave the Palestinian authorities limited powers (which they never should have had in the first place). now, Im not saying Arafat hasnt been an essential part of the movement to emphasis the injustice in paliestine, but that was in the 70s and the man has no vision. Hes a fighter, and a leader, but hes no great planner of states, nations, policy and strategy.
Compare that to the ridiculous amounts of intelligence, infrastructure, organisation, and scholarship in Israel. The Palestinians dont stand a chance at the conference table till they and other arab countries and muslim countries get their acts together, stop oppressing their people and allowing freedom of speech and thought (concepts that actually originated in Islam).
But yes, I agree with atp. It becomes a matter of the lesser evil. The fact is that, while the gaza settlements may be evacuated (I dont think this is likely to happen in practice, as most of the gaza settlements are quite militant) The roadblocks between townships will still be there. The Paliestinian Authority will employ more security men to spy on their own people. The 'Palestinian' economy will have to deal with Israeli security, PA security, as will Palestinian intellectuals and reformers. Add to this the violence and the lack of any gun control in the area. Id appreciate it a lot more of Sharon and Arafat agreed on making Israel/Palestine a gun-free state. Oh, wait a minute, theyre at WAR, arent they? No, no, one side is at war with terrorism, the other side are siply terrorists, silly.

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