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new track - Layer Cake

Cannabis Seed Wedding Bands

Mike Goodwin

TRIBE Member
I am typing wile I listen so please don’t mark me for grammar on this one :p

I find the bass line in the beginning section to be a little odd. Not in it's rhythm but something in the note progression. It just sounds a little off in parts. I like the walking leed sound although it sounds like it could use a thicker chorus and some EQ work. I would trim a bit of the low end out and put a little wide midrange dip to soften it. Not allot of either though. I like the Large backing bad very much as well as the nice noise sweep to bring in parts, it has great width in its soundstage. It comes from behind the listener. Very well done. The drums are well mixed and the levels are pretty god across the board. I could see taking the whole drum mix through something like the LA2A on the uad to add some punch and body to the overall tone. The little hpf sweeps on the drums don’t work for me.
I like the middle section the most. It is nice and deep. The bass line is nice and thick and the large pad rely has sounds great. The pitching between chords works very well in this track. In the last section there are some very sharp hits. Some form of percussion and i find that they sound good but stick out a little bit to much. On first listen I thought there might be a glitch in the render. Some compression with a VERY fast attack would smooth that out. Don’t kill it just smooth it over a bit would be my advice.

Over all I like the track. It is slightly long winded by my ear. I think it carries itself ok but by the time im getting near the middle of the end section I am done with it. Shorten the first section so that when it comes back in your happy to hear it again as opposed to thinking oh boy here it is again. Hope this is helpfull.

Good track. It kind of made me think of the beach.
 

Sean Collier

TRIBE Promoter
Mike - thanks for the review. It's very helpful. its great to get an advanced opinion of my track.

I think i'll scrap the inital bass line altogether - i need something a little punchier - now that the rest of the track is completed, i can find something more suitable.

on the lead, i had already dropped to -24db up to 250hz of the low end - maybe its too much.

i am not too sure what you mean by taking the whole drum mix through a LA2A...

is it not typical to use hpf sweeps on drums? what ideas can you suggest to kill the monotony of the drums? - i thought the hpf would do it...

I'm going to shorten the track up a bit as well - i never did like 8min + tracks and i thought that the track may be about 30-60 sec too long.

thanks again for your advice. i'll let you know when the reworked version is up.
 

Mike Goodwin

TRIBE Member
Hey your welcome.

The shelf on the lead sounds like the right idea. As for the exact frequency, go with what feels right. What I mean by taking the whole drum mix through a LA2A is,.... The LA2A is a great compressor but many others would do. Hmmmm. If you want to get rely into the details of compression this could go on for quite a while. In short try taking your best compressor and set the attack to about 10-20ms, release to about 30-60ms, Threshold to about -20dB and then start playing with your ratio to start hearing the effect.

As for the HPF on drums, sure it is done all the time, just like LPF. I just did not like them in your track or at least the way you had them. They sounded to automated. Try "playing in" your curves with midi controllers. They will sound way more natural.

I wold love to hear it when your done with it.

Peace and happy mixing.

You just reminded me to bump my lessons thread! LOL
 

Syntax Error

Well-Known TRIBEr
the track needs a reason to exist IMO. personally i don't see anything in there that would catch my interest. it's not really my type of music so maybe other people like it but to me it needs something to make it interesting. the sounds seem very canned to me, i'm trying to figure out your writing process and it seems to me that the whole thing was pieced together in Live or whatever program you were using without any real vision. stop worrying about eq levels and make something interesting. the whole thing feels like a paint by numbers exercise. sorry if this seems harsh but i'm drunk. i know how it feels to put your music out there and have people criticise it.

i'm just saying what i feel about the track. others who listen to that type of music more may have a different opinion of it. good luck.
 
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Sean Collier

TRIBE Promoter
next time you're drunk, ramble on elsewhere. If its not your style of music, then you really shouldnt comment on it. I certainly wouldnt voice my opinion on someones hip hop track, because i dont care for that type of music.

feel free to post one of your tracks...
 

Syntax Error

Well-Known TRIBEr
you're being too defensive. would you rather have people not comment on your work? i gave you my opinion, if you can't handle it then you shouldn't be posting tracks. i'm not here to rub your balls and say that your shit smells wonderful. i may have posted drunk but i listened to the track sober and was debating all day whether or not to comment on it. looks like my honesty is not welcome here. guess i'll go back to not commenting on tripe when i hear it. this has been an enlightening experience for me. thank you.

ps - i have posted many tracks on here over the years. for a full listing of shit that you can badmouth out of spite please visit syntaxerror.cc. all comments are welcome.:)
 

Syntax Error

Well-Known TRIBEr
i see that my criticism is lost on someone so daft. i commented that the track needed something interesting. you had the option of either adding something interesting or simply ignoring my comments. instead you give a lecture about what kind of criticism you "welcome".

get over yourself.

i've wasted enough time with this shit. enjoy your mediocrity, it suits you.
 
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Blue Meanies

TRIBE Member
I agree it does need something more interesting. There really isn't a hook where I'm left wanting more. Overall good sounds but you need that hook that grabs you and doesn't let go till the next track.
 

Sean Collier

TRIBE Promoter
i've only made one other song in my life time - to me this was just all about having fun with different synths and creating a chill out song. Its not like i was trying to come up with the ultimate song here.

I agree with both of you and syntax, that if i want something great, it has to be unique. for that, i would start a whole new track.
 

Mike Goodwin

TRIBE Member
Sean Collier said:
I agree with both of you and syntax, that if i want something great, it has to be unique. for that, i would start a whole new track.

That is a good way of thinking abou it. This track is not the one that is going to bring down the house. That is fine. Not all tracks serve the same role.
 

Blue Meanies

TRIBE Member
Mike Goodwin said:
That is a good way of thinking abou it. This track is not the one that is going to bring down the house. That is fine. Not all tracks serve the same role.

I agree but any track still needs that hook. You don't want people to just faze the track out of their mind while they are listening to it you want them to become interested in the track they are listening to. Making the listener want to hear what is coming next. This is just my opinion. Interesting = good, not interesting = filler:)
 

Blue Meanies

TRIBE Member
Sean Collier said:
i've only made one other song in my life time
If this is only the second song you have ever written/programmed... then good job! your on the right track. Figure out your sound, what synths do you like? what kind of beats put a smile on your face? If your own track makes you get up and bust a groove in your studio then your on to something!:)

I've posted my latest track in the Gabriel and Dresden thread in the producers forum. Its a remix I did last month, have a listen and let me know what you think.
 
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Sean Collier

TRIBE Promoter
Blue Meanies said:
Sean Collier said:
i've only made one other song in my life time
If this is only the second song you have ever written/programmed... then good job! your on the right track. Figure out your sound, what synths do you like? what kind of beats put a smile on your face? If your own track makes you get up and bust a groove in your studio then your on to something!:)

I've posted my latest track in the Gabriel and Dresden thread in the producers forum. Its a remix I did last month, have a listen and let me know what you think.

for sure i will...
 

Mike Goodwin

TRIBE Member
Blue Meanies said:
I agree but any track still needs that hook. You don't want people to just faze the track out of their mind while they are listening to it you want them to become interested in the track they are listening to. Making the listener want to hear what is coming next. This is just my opinion. Interesting = good, not interesting = filler:)

I like the break down in the middle for me that is what I would use this track for. If I would remix this track it would be wrapped around the chord prgression in the middle of the track and the bass line in that section. I think there is enough there to stand on for the three min. i would play it. For a second track it is very good. When i wrote my second track I did it in SAW Audio and I did not even have midi! LOL how times have changed.
 

Sean Collier

TRIBE Promoter
Mike Goodwin said:
I like the break down in the middle for me that is what I would use this track for. If I would remix this track it would be wrapped around the chord prgression in the middle of the track and the bass line in that section. I think there is enough there to stand on for the three min. i would play it. For a second track it is very good. When i wrote my second track I did it in SAW Audio and I did not even have midi! LOL how times have changed.

So you think i should scrap the lead and the initial chorus pad? I think i need some vocals on this track maybe.

SAW Audio - i havent even heard of it. lol
 

Blue Meanies

TRIBE Member
Try adding a dirty stabbing synth overtop of the bassline in the middle section to give it some more life. The Bassline in the middle is good but seems to be too distant/far away. It needs to be brought out some how? Oh and mike good tracks on beatport man congrats
 

Sean Collier

TRIBE Promoter
Blue Meanies said:
Try adding a dirty stabbing synth overtop of the bassline in the middle section to give it some more life. The Bassline in the middle is good but seems to be too distant/far away. It needs to be brought out some how? Oh and mike good tracks on beatport man congrats

Yes, i think what i will do is go with Mike's suggestion and extract the breakdown at 3 min and use that as the basis for the whole track and scrap all else. As well i will bring the bassline more to the forefront - maybe i need to compress it a bit to make it punchier and that way i can make it louder without it drowning out everything else.... thanks for the tip.
 
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loopdokter

TRIBE Promoter
Listening now. It's not bad. I find it a bit repetitious and long at the neck. The drums could use a bit more punch. I find the kick to be a bit weak. Try boosting the kick in the 90-120 Hz range.

It's a respectable attempt at deep house though. Don't listen to what Syntax Error is saying 'cause he's clearing talking out of his ass.

Cheers,
J<
 

Mike Goodwin

TRIBE Member
Sean Collier said:
So you think i should scrap the lead and the initial chorus pad? I think i need some vocals on this track maybe.

SAW Audio - i havent even heard of it. lol

Ok another typing while listening rant. Get rid of that first bass line and cut 16 bars out before the big pad comes in. Keep the introduction of the second bass line the way it is. Keep the lead it is fine. I like the way you bring in the middle section. The mix needs to be tracked with some eq and compression work. I am not going to attempt to get into that here as it is far to much information and frankly it takes more than a forum to learn how to mix. Some ambient sounds would add allot to the mix. Say add the sound of the beach or traffic in sections in the background. I would do a mix without the "lead" sound that was about a min. and a half shorter than the one with the lead in it. Do a dub mix in other words. You could add some delay and reverb to the hi hats that you keep fading in and out in the left channel. In fact you could add some very short reverb to all your hard panned sounds. But only very little.

Ok another 7 min rant. Hope it is helpful.
 

Sean Collier

TRIBE Promoter
OK - so I have a reworked vesion up now for those of you that would like to have another listen, and hopefully i'm heading in the right direction.

This is what i've done to it: i've scrapped the first bassline, shaved off about 45-60sec at the start, added a atmospheric sound heading into the breakdown and through the breakdown, added reverb and delay to the hi hats, adjusted the volume levels on some stuff, and made some eq adjustments to the drum throughout mix.

Nothing too major - i still think i need vocals and some hooks and stabs as suggested by others, but that will come once i find some good ones...

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/25/36040/Sean%20Collier%20-%20Layer%20Cake.mp3

thanks for all the help - i've learned a lot from you guys!
 
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