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New Nuclear Power Plants for Ontario

Re: Shoe

TRIBE Member
http://www.energy.gov.on.ca/index.cfm?fuseaction=english.news&body=yes&news_id=134
QUEEN'S PARK — Energy Minister Dwight Duncan directed the Ontario Power Authority (OPA) today to proceed with its recommended 20-year electricity supply mix plan, with some revisions.

...

The government has directed Ontario Power Generation (OPG) to undertake feasibility studies for refurbishing units at the Pickering and Darlington sites. OPG has also been directed to begin the work needed for an environmental assessment for the construction of new units at an existing nuclear facility. Nuclear is expected to continue to be the single-largest source for Ontario's electricity in 2025.

New build of nuclear plants means jobs for life for at least a handful of Tribers.

So, any bets on which design will be chosen? The business money (i.e., if Bruce Power was choosing) would be on Framatome since they're already building two in Europe. Will AECL manage to sell one here at home? Maybe Westinghouse or GE will give Ontario a deal to help sell their design in the US.
 
Alex D. from TRIBE on Utility Room

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
I'm pro nuclear so to me this is a good thing. I think the plan is nowhere near ambitous enough and lacks planning for the amount of population growth southern ontario should be planning around, but I'm glad to see something being done.
 

AdRiaN

TRIBE Member
Here's a great news release from Dr. Patrick Moore, co-founder and former leader of Greenpeace.

Activists' fear-mongering against nuclear energy scientifically baseless, says Greenpeace co-founder

TORONTO, June 13 /CNW/ - Groups who blindly oppose nuclear energy such as the gas-funded Ontario Clean Air Alliance do a disservice to Ontarians by simply engaging in fear-mongering in order to advance their own narrow agendas, says Greenpeace co-founder and former leader Dr. Patrick Moore.

"Nuclear energy is clean, safe, cost-effective and reliable - a non-greenhouse-gas-emitting power source that can effectively replace fossil fuels while helping to alleviate the massive shortfall of 24,000 megawatts in Ontario's energy supply expected by 2025," Moore said.

Full Article

Amen, brother!
 
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Re: Shoe

TRIBE Member
Seems not everyone involved at Greenpeace has the same point of view.

Greenpeace activists occupy Ontario Energy Minister's office

Greenpeace activists today began an occupation of the office of Ontario Energy Minister Donna Cansfield in Toronto in response to the McGuinty government’s announcement that it will proceed with a massive expansion of nuclear power in Ontario. The McGuinty’s government’s nuclear energy plan will see $40 billion spent on the $40 billion on the construction or re-construction of about 20 old and new nuclear reactors. The plan give short shrift to renewable energy, conservation and efficiency.

The Greenpeace activists are demanding that the government retract their commitment to nuclear power and commit to a renewable energy future.

I'm all for energy efficiency (especially when it comes to the renovation and construction industries) and renewable energy. Realistically though, you can't power 2 million air conditioners with a couple of cow farts and a single windmill at the Exhibition.

In my opinion, it's no coincidence that this annoucement was made the day after we all saw pictures of the old Lakeview stacks being demolished.
 

AdRiaN

TRIBE Member
Well, I would imagine nobody at Greenpeace shares Dr. Moore's point of view. He's basically calling his former organization a bunch of fear-mongerers with no realistic solution.

As for energy efficiency, it's important to note that the Ontario government is calling for a doubling of conservation initiatives and a doubling of renewable energy targets compared to the recommendations of the Ontario Power Authority. Yet despite this aggressive approach, we still need 14,000 MW of nuclear capacity to meet projected demand.

There really is no other option.
 

dig this

TRIBE Member
The plan is to keep Ontario's nuclear at about 40% of the energy source. Basically we're gonna decomission some while building and renovating others. So really there won't be much of a change.

I'd still like to see more of a push for renewables and reduction incentives. It's out there and it can work just as well, it just needs the same commitment (i.e gov subsidies) as nuclear gets.
 

atbell

TRIBE Member
Re: Shoe said:
I'm all for energy efficiency (especially when it comes to the renovation and construction industries) and renewable energy. Realistically though, you can't power 2 million air conditioners with a couple of cow farts and a single windmill at the Exhibition.

Air conditioners are a crazy problem. I've hear (unconfirmed) that most office buildings in Toronto need cooling year round due to the heat generated by computer equipment and busy bodies.

I also seem to remember people who would leave their doors and windows on with the AC going full blast. Queen's Quay terminal is a particularly bad offender as it had patios with open walls to the air conditioned inside.

It's no wonder that the grid struggles every summer.

The weird thing is that I talked to a cab driver who had lived in Punjab in his youth. Aside from stories of pet monkeys he also pointed out that the mud houses they used in India never needed air conditioning. Makes you wonder why our "advanced" nation can't do the same.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
atbell said:
Aside from stories of pet monkeys he also pointed out that the mud houses they used in India never needed air conditioning. Makes you wonder why our "advanced" nation can't do the same.


because we have structural engineers and building codes. We also have 4 seasons that include both cold as hell and hot as hell.

I'd also like to point out that along with not having air conditioning he also likely didn't have running water, or electricity for that matter.
 
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Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
atbell said:
Air conditioners are a crazy problem. I've hear (unconfirmed) that most office buildings in Toronto need cooling year round due to the heat generated by computer equipment and busy bodies.


Computer rooms are generally on there own system for air conditioning. However we also have cold water lake cooling systems, it makes 0 difference if the doors are open or closed with these it consumes the same power no matter what and provides the same cooling no matter what.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
15 years ago the average hoom didn't have a computer and we had an average of 2 television per home. Now over %80 of households have more than 1 computer and more than 2 televisions.

Our personal power consumption has gone up over the last 2 decades at a rate not seen since we were wired up in the first place.
 

SellyCat

TRIBE Member
I'm very glad to hear this...and not terribly interested in what Green Peace has to say. I would love to see a breakdown of their donorship demographic in a full investigation. I'd like to know how much of their funding comes from fronts that are backed by coal and gas interests. (How much might = zero. But I'd like there to know)
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
Why almost every single US nuclear bomb was made with Canadian uranium. Each time the USA made a bomb our country cashed the checks knowing exactly what it was for. We have been enriching uranium since before the first bomb was tested.
 
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AdRiaN

TRIBE Member
Ditto Much said:
Our personal power consumption has gone up over the last 2 decades at a rate not seen since we were wired up in the first place.
According to the Conservation Bureau of Ontario:

"It is very notable that Ontario’s per capita consumption peaked in 1990 and has been trending lower every year since then. This is in contrast to the other jurisdictions shown in this figure where per capita consumption has either continued to grow or has stabilized."

Graph

N.B. Pay closer attention to the trends than the levels of consumption, as these jurisdictions all differ in terms of economic structure, industrial mix and climate.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
yikes you might by right Adrian thanks!!



-----------

Electricity Usage by Ontario’s Residential Sector
Hot Tap

In 2003, residences in Ontario used 33% of the total electricity consumption, down marginally from 34% in 1990. During this period:

* Electricity intensity (amount of electricity used relative to activity levels) per household decreased by 16%
* Consumption increased by 5%
* Population grew by 19%
* The number of households increased by 26%

Space heating represents the largest share at 23% of total consumption. Electricity use for space heating has grown by 5% since 1990 even as the market share for electric heat has declined from 13% to 11%.

In the same period, the number of homes using electric heat, including heat pumps and dual-fuel systems, increased by 13%. Significantly, an estimated 666,000 Ontario homes are now heated with baseboard heaters.

The market share for electric water heating decreased from 33% to 22%. A total of 1.9 million homes used electric water heaters in 1990. In 1991, that figure had dropped to 1.5 million, only to bounce back to 1.6 million by 2003.

Residential cooling energy use showed the greatest increase (more than 100%) in the period 1990-2003 as more homes installed central air conditioning. Electricity use by central air conditioning systems increased by 121% and electricity use by room air conditioners was up by less than 20% in the period.

Part of this increase is attributable to warmer weather. Cooling degree-days were approximately 20% higher in 2003 than in 1990. If the summer of 2003 had been comparable to 1990, the increase in air conditioning electricity use would have been closer to 70%.

Although air conditioning is responsible for only 7.6% of annual residential electricity use, it has a disproportionate impact on demand. In the past 13 years, the amount of electricity used for space cooling has increased rapidly in both the residential and commercial/ institutional sectors.

On an annual basis, air conditioning has a low load factor, but it drives extremely high loads in hot summer months.

As a result, peak demand for electricity – which used to occur in the winter in Ontario – now occurs in the summer.

New major appliances have become substantially more efficient. As the stock of inefficient appliances was replaced with high-efficiency models, electricity use declined.

For example, while there was essentially no change in the average number of refrigerators or freezers per household over the period, electricity use by these appliances dropped an average of 16.4%.

Electricity use by other appliances – such as home electronics – increased 57% from 1990-2003. Lighting use increased by almost 20%.
----------


hmm I still can't tell if it really went down or not.
 

judge wopner

TRIBE Member
AdRiaN said:
According to the Conservation Bureau of Ontario:

"It is very notable that Ontario’s per capita consumption peaked in 1990 and has been trending lower every year since then. This is in contrast to the other jurisdictions shown in this figure where per capita consumption has either continued to grow or has stabilized."

Graph

N.B. Pay closer attention to the trends than the levels of consumption, as these jurisdictions all differ in terms of economic structure, industrial mix and climate.

per capita consumption may have trended lower but overall we are using more power as we grow in population. thats the basic problem.

i wonder if we use less per capita becasue of better efficiency or because people need less power per capita in higher denisty areas like condo's, townhouses and linked semi's which have been a lion's share of residential development in the GTA.
 

AdRiaN

TRIBE Member
SellyCat said:
I'm very glad to hear this...and not terribly interested in what Green Peace has to say. I would love to see a breakdown of their donorship demographic in a full investigation. I'd like to know how much of their funding comes from fronts that are backed by coal and gas interests. (How much might = zero. But I'd like there to know)
My guess is that Greenpeace receives no money from gas interests, but they will certainly make alliances of convenience to fight against a "greater foe" (in this case, nuclear energy).

The Ontario Clean Air Alliance (OCAA), as pointed out by Dr. Moore, is certainly funded by gas interest. I would venture to say the OCAA is heavily funded by gas interests, but the association only publishes a list of sponsors/members and provides no information on the amount of financial contributions. Nonetheless, one can assume that the largest companies are the largest donors, and the largest companies on the list are almost all within the natural gas sector.
 

Ditto Much

TRIBE Member
judge wopner said:
per capita consumption may have trended lower but overall we are using more power as we grow in population. thats the basic problem.

i wonder if we use less per capita becasue of better efficiency or because people need less power per capita in higher denisty areas like condo's, townhouses and linked semi's which have been a lion's share of residential development in the GTA.


I think its multiple factors. New homes are far more energy efficent and new appliances are far better than what we had 15 years ago. AS stoves and fridges bought in the mid 80's have reached the end of there lives we have replaced them with more efficent items, same goes for televisions and somputer equipment.

So the average home kitchen likely does burn far less power, people have also replaced electricity with natural gas as availibility and infrastructure have improved.
 
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SellyCat

TRIBE Member
Ditto Much said:
I think its multiple factors. New homes are far more energy efficent and new appliances are far better than what we had 15 years ago. AS stoves and fridges bought in the mid 80's have reached the end of there lives we have replaced them with more efficent items, same goes for televisions and somputer equipment.

So the average home kitchen likely does burn far less power, people have also replaced electricity with natural gas as availibility and infrastructure have improved.

And high efficiency furnaces. My parents installed one in their house before moving to Dubai and the thing is pretty fucking amazing. It produces practically no exhaust. 99% efficient.
 

AdRiaN

TRIBE Member
Ditto Much said:
hmm I still can't tell if it really went down or not.
Basically, we are more efficient and use less electricity per capita, but we are using a lot more power during the summer than ever before. The increase is primarily due to the penetration rate of air conditioning.

A debate is currently taking place about how to forecast electricity demand in the future between those who prefer to extrapolate historical trends and those who prefer to dampen their growth expectations since the penetration rate of air conditioning will eventually flatten.

I subscribe to the latter.
 
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