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McGuinty keep stepping in it - The Return Of Photo Radar

Littlest Hobo

TRIBE Member
McGuinty: Photo radar may return
Mike Harris campaigned, and won, on promise to eliminate it in 1994


KEITH LESLIE
CANADIAN PRESS

Ontario’s Liberal government is considering bringing back photo radar to catch speeding drivers in an effort to raise revenues and eliminate the budget deficit.
Cabinet ministers were to discuss the idea of reinstating the controversial measure during a day-long cabinet meeting, Premier Dalton McGuinty said today.

“I’ve long been a supporter of photo radar,” McGuinty said on his way into the meeting. “It’s a revenue generator, absolutely.”

Photo radar was first introduced in Ontario in 1994 under the NDP government of former premier Bob Rae, but it was one of the first things to go when Mike Harris and his Conservatives were elected the following year.

High-tech cameras are mounted in unmarked vans that sit on the side of the highway, snapping photos of the licence plates of cars exceeding the speed limit.

Regardless of who was at the wheel, the car’s owner gets a copy of the photo in the mail, along with a hefty fine.

Since they were elected in October, McGuinty’s Liberals have been frantically casting about for ways to trim the provincial deficit, estimated to be more than $5.6 billion.


Consumer Services Minister Jim Watson has said he’s also looking at raising fees for everything from marriage licences and business permits to birth certificates.

Critics have long complained that photo radar, which remains in place in some Canadian provinces, including Alberta and Manitoba, is little more than another tax on motorists.

In British Columbia, Gordon Campbell’s Liberals scrapped photo radar in 2001.

Ontario’s opposition Tories and New Democrats have both accused the Liberals of misleading voters by not talking about photo radar, toll roads or higher user fees during last fall’s provincial election campaign.

“The premier’s done a complete reversal on photo radar,” said NDP house leader Peter Kormos. “He wasn’t a fan of it 12 years ago. All of a sudden now McGuinty embraces photo radar.”

Conservative critic Garfield Dunlop accused McGuinty of saying anything to voters in order to get elected.

“I think it’s fairly clear he’s misled Ontarians on a lot of different issues,” Dunlop said. “Photo radar, I wouldn’t be surprised if he did that as well.”


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Generate revenue at the expense of higher insurance premiums (something he promised he will do something about). Fucking fascist. This has nothing to do with highway safety and everything with making money.

How many promises has he broken? Do McGuinty voters feel stupid for voting for him?

The only redeeming thing about this is that cops will get ticketed.
 

Cydome

TRIBE Member
This has nothing to do with highway safety and everything with making money.
It's terrible that they're not even lying about it, trying to play it as some kind of progress towards making the highways safer, by announcing you may bring it back and saying “It’s a revenue generator, absolutely.”, is quite a slap in the face.

I'm sure the radio stations will love it though, all those communters listening in the mornings to find out where the vans are parked...mmm advertising dollar$, cha-ching!
 

OTIS

TRIBE Member
Totally shameless to attack drivers even more.. it's like.. "OH, we need a new revenue source -how bout drivers!" This was Mel's method of increasing revenue, and although I don't drive that much.. I fuckin hate the strategy.
 
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416

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by OTIS
I fuckin hate the strategy.
I couldn't disagree with you more.

The type of car use we see around us every day promotes urban sprawl, causes huge amounts of pollution, uses up way too much of our land and gets our neighbours all twitchy to kill brown people.

In my opinion, I think driving should be discouraged.
 

dj_jake_the_snake

TRIBE Member
I agree with the strategy. If you are going way over the limit you will be ticketed. Makes the world a fairer place. You break the rules regardless of age or race you are getting fined. It will generate revenue. Now they need to extend teh drinking hours until 4am (which is good for business) and keep the police focused on who's drinking and driving.
 

silver1

TRIBE Member
Dalton's gonna give some of the extra revenue to cities to help make public transportation better right?......

oh :(
 

Hi i'm God

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by 416
I couldn't disagree with you more.

The type of car use we see around us every day promotes urban sprawl, causes huge amounts of pollution, uses up way too much of our land and gets our neighbours all twitchy to kill brown people.

In my opinion, I think driving should be discouraged.
:rolleyes: Sure I'll just walk from Barrie to toronto every time I want to see family, friends or hit the town. Get over it you transit depended people. Most people HAVE to drive theres no if and or buts about it so quite yer driving is evil crap.
 

kodos

TRIBE Member
Next time, vote Tory - a candidate who actually drives :rolleyes:

As for this jerk, he's done everything but eat kitten sandwiches. Maybe that's next.
 
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OTIS

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by 416
I couldn't disagree with you more.

The type of car use we see around us every day promotes urban sprawl, causes huge amounts of pollution, uses up way too much of our land and gets our neighbours all twitchy to kill brown people.

In my opinion, I think driving should be discouraged.
But that's not even the point of the program, it's admittedly meant only to be a cash cow and that's it. You'd have to be naive to believe it will in any way reduce actuall car use. All it does is mark drivers yet again as a tax target. And if your logic is 'if are going way over the limit you will be ticketed', make sure you ARE ticketed, and not just left to travel at high rates of speed because the essential cash is guaranteed by the capture of your license place. Part of reducing the chance of speed related accidents is the experience of actually getting pulled over, it's one that's embearrasing to some, disruptively time wasting to others, and even traumatic to some others.. all of which act as deterrents on top of the fine to not speed again.
 

416

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Hi i'm God
[BMost people HAVE to drive theres no if and or buts about it so quite yer driving is evil crap. [/B]
I disagree.

My wife, my dog and myself don't HAVE to drive. That's 0% the occupants of my house who MUST drive. I hardly think 0% makes up "most".

So what's up with that? How come we don't HAVE to drive and you do?
 

416

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by OTIS
But that's not even the point of the program, it's admittedly meant only to be a cash cow and that's it. You'd have to be naive to believe it will in any way reduce actuall car use.
Ya... you're probably right....

Maybe I just like it when drivers start feeling it because of the problems they create mentioned above.

Makes me all... "Ya, git those fuckers.. git em....".
 

OTIS

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by 416
Ya... you're probably right....

Maybe I just like it when drivers start feeling it because of the problems they create mentioned above.

Makes me all... "Ya, git those fuckers.. git em....".
Yea I feel that way too sometimes. But I'm trying hard not to base my policy views on emotion and more appropriately on logic & pragmatism. This policy is meant to play on the first, and as I said, that's just simply shameless.
 

green_souljah

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by 416
I disagree.

My wife, my dog and myself don't HAVE to drive. That's 0% the occupants of my house who MUST drive. I hardly think 0% makes up "most".

So what's up with that? How come we don't HAVE to drive and you do?

Hmm

Perhaps nobody like you and you don't have to leave your 'hood?
 
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Littlest Hobo

TRIBE Member
That's pretty simplistic. Take the GO to Barrie. First he has to get to the GO station via bus (or cab, which is an evil car). Then what? If the family doesn't live near the station, dude has to take the bus (if the Barrie bus system is anything like the PTBO bus, I hope he have a good, long book) or get someone to pick him up in an evil car or take a cab in an evil car.

Which is doable I suppose. Mind you, the drive to Barrie is about an hour; taking the public transit route will easily double or possibly triple his travel time. This may be fine for people who aren't in a hurry, but not for all. Not to mention the hassle of getting family member to pick you up and what not.

The cost of a double trip to Barrie is $20.50. The cost for public transit would be ~$4.00 if you buy tickets (for Toronto). Add another $0 (for a ride, excluding their gas money)- $30 for bus or cab fare once you get to Barrie and Now we're up to anywhere from ~$25 to possibly $50. My car, Miami Vice, can get you there for $10 of gas. If he's going with someone, the cost instantly doubles, whereas in a car the cost is fixed.

Another problem is what if he has a lot of stuff? What if he has a pet? These things aren't public transit-friendly.

I know of this because Jen and I would travel to her Granny's farm in Kendel (near Newcastle). A 40 drive would turn into a bus-subway-go train-go bus-someone picking us up travel pain in the 2.5 hour ass. We couldn't bring a lot of stuff, and we couldn;t bring our cat.
 

janiecakes

TRIBE Member
hobo, obviously there are times when people need to drive. my parents sometimes need to take 2 cars to work (they work at the same location) because of all the equipment they have to take to work, so i'm not being a kneejerk DRIVING IS ALWAYS EVIL person.

i have family outside of toronto and i visit them on a regular basis, using go transit about 95% of the time. i don't bring my pets and i don't lug a bazillion possessions with me. on the extremely rare occasion that i have too much stuff with me or i have to bring my cats, i get a lift from a relative who has a car.

the point i was making is that transit to and from places close to toronto (and barrie is one of them) exists. people who have become dependent on their cars because it's more convenient have a hard time seeing this. drive to the go station and park your car there, and then take the damn transit! and don't give me that bullshit that it's going to cost $50 to get to and from barrie to toronto using transit, that's the most outrageous thing you've ever said in your entire life toots!
 
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Littlest Hobo

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by janiecakes
and don't give me that bullshit that it's going to cost $50 to get to and from barrie to toronto using transit, that's the most outrageous thing you've ever said in your entire life toots!
I said anywhere from $25-$50 toots, which is $20.50 (Go fare) + $4 (TTC) + a possible $25 cab ride, which is not unheard of. In PTBO is costs me $15 cab (I tip well) from the Greyhound to my parents, and it's a fairly short distance.

Originally posted by janiecakes
drive to the go station and park your car there, and then take the damn transit!
So now you're paying for the cost of a car, the cost of using GO and paying to park (if applicable), plus the hassles upon reaching your destination? That's not so sane.
 

janiecakes

TRIBE Member
1) if your family will make you pay for a cab when you visit them instead of picking you up, time to get a new family

2) isn't parking at go stations free? i'm not 100% sure about that.

3) if i (and all the other thousands of people without cars) can visit my family outside toronto pretty cheaply (maybe $10 - $15 max, plus a couple of TTC tokens) and without much hassle, then so can most people

4) toots
 

Littlest Hobo

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by janiecakes
1) if your family will make you pay for a cab when you visit them instead of picking you up, time to get a new family
I'm independant. I don't want to be overbearing and I'm an adult, so I take care of my own business.

Originally posted by janiecakes
2) isn't parking at go stations free? i'm not 100% sure about that.
I don't know either.

Originally posted by janiecakes
3) if i (and all the other thousands of people without cars) can visit my family outside toronto pretty cheaply (maybe $10 - $15 max, plus a couple of TTC tokens) and without much hassle, then so can most people
So now you're talking $15-$20 each way. I can take souljah to Barrie for $10. And I include funny anecdotes and clever repartees.

Besides, you can't make everything do what you want them to do. You must be a commie :p.

Originally posted by janiecakes
4) toots .
 

janiecakes

TRIBE Member
1) i'm also an adult, and not overbearing with my family. they'll still pick me up from the go station.

2) at least we can agree on something

3) i was actually talking round trip. my point is that it's only seen as a huge hassle and expense by people who are dependent on cars. i see it as a low cost, convenient way to visit my family, not an expensive hassle. i'll believe the funny anecdotes and clever repartee when i see it. plus, you could do that on the goddamn go train!

4) yay!
 
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