Man sues Ferrari... claims car is too slow.

[Dirt Dawg]

The only thing I could see affecting this claimed top speed number would be some retarded test conditions manufactures use to get the numbers they want to see... like having some 120 pound race driver get in with only enough gas in the tank to just reach 186 before the car shuts down.


With a good size man on board on a normal highway surface, with a full tank off gas and his overnight bag full of money in the trunk; could very much make the difference he is disputing.

 

[oh toro]

Originally posted by Stan
All the gears will have an effect on your final gear, don't they? Any change to the first gear will effect the top gear, likewise the second, third, etc.

gear ratios are fixed. you get the fastest top speed on a gear no less than 1:1 ratio. anything less and you'll be going slower at same rpms as the next lower gear at or above 1:1.

 

[NCR]

Originally posted by Stan

top speed is not just dependant on how hard you can mah down the accelerator




Yes it is. Strictly speaking from the drivers standpoint. Adjusting gear ratios = mechanically altering the vehicle, aka absolutely NOTHING to do with the driver. ie. Am I a much better driver than you if I install a twin tubo on said Ferrari and get a top speed of 200 mp/h, compared to your 176? we're both, as drivers simply "mashing the pedal". Everything else is dependant on the car itself (horsepower/gearing/aerodynamics). It would not be possible for you to coax a higher top speed than me (assuming we're the same weight) in the same car and the same environment.

 

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Stan
Whatever, my original point was that top speed is not just dependant on how hard you can mash down the accelerator. There are a large number of different factors involved.

just what are these mysteriously fleeting factors?

cars travel so slow that it's safe to say we can assume a standard(icao) atmosphere, inviscid (fricitonless) and incompressible flow....

then can we say that "top speed" is the state when...

thrust = drag = (blah)S*Cd*rho*V^2/2

where:
blah- some expression for the drag of the rolling friction from a tire at X psi and a function of the weight of the car
S- surface area in the freestream flow
Cd- drag coefficient of the body
rho- density of the atmosphere
v- velocity
thrust- net thrust avail (whp after drivetrain losses)

even when downforce comes into the mix the variables are the same

people are mixing up acceleration and top speed. make up your minds and integrate/derive over 't'-time as appropriate

even if the car is on a grade, it just means one more pedestrian step to resolve the forces of the stupid thing

from a purely aerodynamic standpoint the higher the density altitude, the faster the car would go due to the reduced drag, however, the (ferrari's normally aspirated) engine would produce less power so it's a compromise

 

[Stan]

Originally posted by oh toro
gear ratios are fixed. you get the fastest top speed on a gear no less than 1:1 ratio. anything less and you'll be going slower at same rpms as the next lower gear at or above 1:1.

Most cars and bikes have fixed gear ratios and fixed aerodynamics, but when you get into the high-end cars, like the Ferraris mentioned in this thread, you also get the option to change em as you see fit (with a proper mechanic, of course). The Enzo Ferrari is basically a Formula One car with a road going shell fixed on it. And the 360 Challenge Stradale is basically a road going GT car.

When Ferrari does their tests to get the "advertised" top speed of a car, they set the car up differently from how it would normally be for road going use. That includes changing the gear ratios for better top speed, reducing the downforce on the car's spoilers, lowering the suspension and all this other bullshit. You don't normally do these things, because then it screws around with the car's handling and acceleration, making it less useable for normal driving conditions.

That is why the car's advertised top speed is different from what you can get it to go during normal use.

 

[Stan]

from a purely aerodynamic standpoint the higher the density altitude, the faster the car would go due to the reduced drag, however, the (ferrari's normally aspirated) engine would produce less power so it's a compromise

At lower altitudes, the car's engine will make up more power due to the increase in oxygen in the atmosphere. The increase in power is usually more than the increase in drag due to the air density.

 

[Balzz]

Originally posted by Stan
Most cars and bikes have fixed gear ratios and fixed aerodynamics, but when you get into the high-end cars, like the Ferraris mentioned in this thread, you also get the option to change em as you see fit (with a proper mechanic, of course). The Enzo Ferrari is basically a Formula One car with a road going shell fixed on it. And the 360 Challenge Stradale is basically a road going GT car.

With a proper mechanic, you can change the gear ratios in anything. Again, an Enzo and Stradale do not have driver-adjustable downforce-producing elements. Most of the downforce produced by these 2 cars are produced by the underbody. Beautiful thing about underbody diffusers is that they produce downforce with better efficiency that any elements mounted on the body of the car.

 

[Balzz]

Originally posted by Stan
At lower altitudes, the car's engine will make up more power due to the increase in oxygen in the atmosphere. The increase in power is usually more than the increase in drag due to the air density.

Mephisto just said that.

 

[Balzz]

Originally posted by Confused
i'd give my left nut for a 360 CS

I would give your left nut for a 360 CS too!

 

[defazman]

maybe he didn't follow the manufacturers recommended break in suggestions?

that's the only thing I can think of that hasn't been mentioned and then laughed at allready.

 

[Balzz]

Originally posted by defazman
maybe he didn't follow the manufacturers recommended break in suggestions?

The break-in procedure probably consists of just one step - Don't crash.

 

[labRat]

like any spec on any product out there (be it automotive, electronics, etc) there are certain conditions that usually have to be met and not all products may meet that spec due to overall tolerances on each component.

ferrari probably takes a few early manufactured cars and runs it through their tests and bases it on that, along with predicted/theoretical results.

 

[Subsonic Chronic]

Re: Re: Man sues Ferrari... claims car is too slow.

Originally posted by Mephisto
he probably didn't opt for the £3000 hand painted stripe. that's good for at least 8 mph. the rest of the 186 comes when you lop the mirrors off and freeze the wiper in the vertical position.

<3

 

[Jeremy Jive]

My vespa does 115 not the 120 on the speedo. i want my money back too.

 

[Lurch]

Stan................. GIVE UP

You are talking yourself deeper and deeper.

Effectively you could start in 6th (with enough torque its possible) and run all the way to top speed. Top speed is only determined by 4 things; wind resistance, engine RPM, Tire air pressure and Gear Ratios.

 

[annec]

To Quote...

Snake from the Simpsons...

"Dude, she takes premium!"

 

[gasper]

Originally posted by Lurch
Stan................. GIVE UP

You are talking yourself deeper and deeper.

Effectively you could start in 6th (with enough torque its possible) and run all the way to top speed. Top speed is only determined by 4 things; wind resistance, engine RPM, Tire air pressure and Gear Ratios.

You forgot to figure in testosterone level. It's a well-know fact that when the driver exudes manliness, the car can somehow sense it and performs better. Top speed needs testosterone!

PS. This thread is so full of ridiculousness that the above might be a more valid statement.

 

[Stan]

I could be wrong, but I imagine Ferrari has a mechanic or two who could adjust the gear ratios on their own cars when doing top-speed test runs, no?

Also, I don't know about the Challenge Stradale, but the Enzo does have active control spoilers which adjust the amount of downforce depending on the speed of the car. A number of other cars have this feature, including the Diablo, the Porsche Careera GT and the Mclaren F1.

 

[gasper]

blah blah blah

 

[Lurch]

Originally posted by Stan
I could be wrong, but I imagine Ferrari has a mechanic or two who could adjust the gear ratios on their own cars when doing top-speed test runs, no?

Also, I don't know about the Challenge Stradale, but the Enzo does have active control spoilers which adjust the amount of downforce depending on the speed of the car. A number of other cars have this feature, including the Diablo, the Porsche Careera GT and the Mclaren F1.

lets see.....hmmmmmmmm...........A huge multi-million if not billion dollar company is going to falsify tests so they can claim a higher top speed of a production car. If anything they tested it under idle conditions, there is no way they would switch out gears etc.

Give it up dude!

 

[Stan]

Originally posted by Lurch
lets see.....hmmmmmmmm...........A huge multi-million if not billion dollar company is going to falsify tests so they can claim a higher top speed of a production car.

Why not? They have access to a team of Formula 1 mechanics. If they can claim a higher top speed of their production car, then they'll sell more than Porsche or Lamborghini. The news article itself said that the guy bought the Ferrari over Porsche because it had a higher advertised top speed.

 

[Stan]

And they aren't falsifying the tests, they're just tuning the car to give them the best possible numbers for their advertising. I'm sure the other car manufacturers do the same thing.

 

[Sleepy Giant]

Originally posted by Balzz
What do bikes have instead of gear ratios? Rope?

<3

I take back all the bad things I said about you in the f1 thread.

 

[Lurch]

Originally posted by Stan
And they aren't falsifying the tests, they're just tuning the car to give them the best possible numbers for their advertising. I'm sure the other car manufacturers do the same thing.

tuning cars vs. changing entire gear sets are 2 ENTIRELY different things

 

[Balzz]

Originally posted by Stan
the Enzo does have active control spoilers which adjust the amount of downforce depending on the speed of the car. A number of other cars have this feature, including the Diablo, the Porsche Careera GT and the Mclaren F1.

DEPENDING ON THE SPEED OF THE CAR NOT THE WHIM OF THE DRIVER!