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lower back pain & hip alignment

lucky1

TRIBE Member
i lix said:
hey thanks

i went to a chiropractor clinic before though and i found it hard to repeat my medical history every semester or whatever. plus, i have some particular areas that having someone manipulate who was inexperienced (even when supervised) was a really bad idea. although, i don't think massage would be as much of a concern.

the accupuncturist i found charges a very resonable rate and is >5min by bike away. the problem is even at 50%, i suddenly became unemployed as of friday... so any price is too much until i find a new (and better) job...

*sigh*

No prob.. I dont' think they off CHiropractic service at CCNM.... accupuncture for sure they do.

you don't need to repeat your history.. they keep you on file, and you are assigned to a new student once per year and keept eh same ND who oversees everything...
 

judge wopner

TRIBE Member
sugar said:
Search for "Sarno" in the keyword, and "judge wopner" in the username. He professes the same love for that book.

i do love that book and the ideas behind it. its one of many ways to approach back pain.

stop with your anger for a second because for anyone that has dealt with debilitating back pain, persistant for several months, making you qeusiton yoru ability to even do your job its not a laughing matter.

if you have then dealth with it then read the book, otherwise be nice, the last thing people with back pain need is unproductive presumptions about dealing with their pain.

its not the be all and end all, eveyrone is different but i think it is one of the most mis-understoood ideas behind the causes of back pain.
 

BlueEyedMonster

TRIBE Member
DeepSix said:
BTW glych t.anomaly, did your stepmom take a look at her?


I tried to go see her but it is a bit of a drive and sitting for that long really hurt my back plus she was booked solid
we will see her and his dad on sat so maybe i can talk to her then

Thank you everyone for your advice... i will always research and it is just good to have personal references from people as well instead of just going through the yellow pages
today i feel like 75% better i went and worked a bit yesterday and can tie my shoes today!!! yayay

it is just hard to explain to my boss why i can't work
and i don't get sick pay so i'm too broke to see anyone else right now after the massage guy from my gym although he was 50 for a half hour but i think since i have never seen anyone before i just expected to be able to work after but didn't realize that's not quite how it works
maybe i just keep wanting a quick fix.....i'm not good at being sick or in pain
 

DeepSix

TRIBE Promoter
Re: Sarno's book. It is too often the last resort (looking at the "wishy washy stuff") when it could have been used earlier.

Hard, evidence-based medical science will always be the first line of attack (especially when we're talking about money spent on health care), but it's not the only thing that works.

Be flexible (no pun intended - in fact, flexibility isn't really what we're looking for...nor is strengthening. We're looking to increase stability in the core areas.)
 

BlueEyedMonster

TRIBE Member
DeepSix said:
Re: Sarno's book. It is too often the last resort (looking at the "wishy washy stuff") when it could have been used earlier.

Hard, evidence-based medical science will always be the first line of attack (especially when we're talking about money spent on health care), but it's not the only thing that works.

Be flexible (no pun intended - in fact, flexibility isn't really what we're looking for...nor is strengthening. We're looking to increase stability in the core areas.)


yes i know all about core strengthening i am a personal trainer
but that is why i was so frustrated with not being able to work
and i usually regularly do exercises to help that but 2 wks ago i was in hospital with a serious infection and didn't really do any of them for that period of time and bang that's of course why i'm having back troubles now

i might take a look at that book but because i just have a curved spine and can't change that i don't think it's applicable to me
 
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debunct

TRIBE Promoter
hey blue...good stuff. i know there is so much resistance to looking at "wishy washy" stuff, but that is just the way society is.

i would encourage you to ask a medical doctor what the relationships are between chronic pain and a "curved spine". in all my research over the past three years i have yet to come across consistent results. they just simply do not know. the back was made to be one of the strongest parts of the human body. gosh, how of all of a sudden in the 2000's (especially in North America?!?) all of a sudden we have the influx of back pain. Have we somehow made some sudden leap in evolution where all our sudden we can't handle the pain from a "curved back", which is simply a normal degenerative process. It is ridiculous to think so.

even when people say they "see" the mind-body connection everyday, they still don't see it. it runs deeper than we can ever think. of course, there is no medical proof in this direction (although there is a massive amount of clinical success), a few crusaders are actually asking intelligent questions about why this is happening and why are there so many chriopractors and therapists out there and the problems keep getting worse and worse.

i would give up my life if i did not believe in what i was saying. I believe so strongly in this. Yes, please do not misinterpret. Chiros and therapists are fantastic for what they do, they provide pain relief, they do great core stability work, and they maintain the system. I would never argue that. But we must ask ourselves, what the hell is going on here. What really is causing and the root issue behind this influx of chronic back pain these days? These are the same questions they asked with the phenomena of ulcers, migraines and other physical manisfestations.

I cannot express this any clearer. Chronic back pain destroyed my life. But since I have awakened to the depth at which our mind, body (and spirit) are connected, intuitively my back has healed completely ("curved" spine and all), it has become my mission to spread the truth about what is happening in our world today. Because when we begin to listen to the message that our bodies tell us, we wake up to a whole new world of possibility and enlightenment. This is an epidemic of untold proportions.

If you do have this type of back pain and you do feel like you are a person who tends to "hold in" stuff, then there is some serious hope here. Sarno is not the only person out there with facts about this, there are many other doctors who are leading this charge. Keep reading and keep open.

"when you come to know the you don't know, then you come to know a great deal."

it is time to wake up. I am going golfing.
 

lucky1

TRIBE Member
BlueEyedMonster said:
yes i know all about core strengthening i am a personal trainer
but that is why i was so frustrated with not being able to work
and i usually regularly do exercises to help that but 2 wks ago i was in hospital with a serious infection and didn't really do any of them for that period of time and bang that's of course why i'm having back troubles now

i might take a look at that book but because i just have a curved spine and can't change that i don't think it's applicable to me

as i've learned form experience things in the body never happen in isolation... if you were in the hospital for an infection and then developped the back problem then probably the bes thing for the back is rest, and time
 

R4V4G3D_SKU11S

TRIBE Member
Ah Sarno and his stress theory. He speaks of life before the 21st century as being some utopia of blissful living. Life is a hell of a lot less stressful now than it was for all but a very small percentage of the population 100 years back and beyond.

I can't say that his book didn't have its merits - stress can certainly manifest itself in back pain. But from that assumption, many, many conclusions are jumped to. I think its the omniscience that some followers lend to Sarno and his explanations that bothers me the most. I actually wouldn't caution against reading it, just do so with a critical eye and take what you feel makes sense from it.

Through all my travels in different modalities, I came to a pretty basic conclusion - different treatments work for different conditions and different people. Here.Looking Glass.People.Through.
 

judge wopner

TRIBE Member
R4V4G3D_SKU11S said:
Through all my travels in different modalities, I came to a pretty basic conclusion - different treatments work for different conditions and different people. Here.Looking Glass.People.Through.


i think this is probally the most reasoned approach.

people have had 100% resolution from chiropractic, or accupuncture, or massage, while others have had spontaneous healing or emotional based exacerbations.

im skeptical of anyone who says that the problem is only cured through one path considering the causes of pain are often multifaceded.

i think much of the reaction against Dr. Sarno is not so objective, and more a presumption that becuase its "wishy washy" its no good, or becuase it didnt work for so and so its faulty.

so many people leave chiro's and physio's with ongoing pain, but i would never use their experience as evidence of the bogus nature of those modlities.

its not an easy thing, but reading his book can open your mind to the possibility of a true cure, one that may not happen immediately, examining your inner emotional self can be a turbulent thing.

good luck,

J
 

DeepSix

TRIBE Promoter
Just an FYI:

There's a show on the Life Network RIGHT NOW called "The Anatomy of Pain". Check it out.
 
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KiX

TRIBE Member
debunct said:
gosh, how of all of a sudden in the 2000's (especially in North America?!?) all of a sudden we have the influx of back pain. Have we somehow made some sudden leap in evolution where all our sudden we can't handle the pain from a "curved back", which is simply a normal degenerative process. It is ridiculous to think so.

scoliosis isn't simply a "normal degenerative process", it's a biomechanical dysfunction whose cause tends to be idiopathic. often it isn't due to normal degenerative processes but is related to something congenital. scoliosis commonly affects children and adolescents which would not be the result of simple wear and tear degeneration.

and consider how many more people find themselves sitting infront of a computer 8+ hours of the day as jobs become more computer based. or even the way shoes are evolving - especially women, wearing all sorts of styles that are SO bad for your postural mechanics. these trends alone account for a huge amount of recent postural dysfunction.

the mechanical implications of scoliosis are pretty clear and can easily cause pain without needing an emotional component as a catalyst. it's not that all of a sudden people can't handle the pain of scoliosis because they're now more stressed out and emotionally-affected. the nature of our day to day routines is changing, our body awareness and research into the matter is increasing, there are all sorts of ways to look at it. i'm sure your book is great and has helped out a lot of people and may be an important consideration, but you seem to be looking a little narrowly at things.
 

debunct

TRIBE Promoter
Hi everybody!

Great discussion.

I really do appreciate everyone's opinions. However, I really take offence to the notion that an approach that focus' on emotions as a source of physical pain as being narrow-minded. I could not disagree any more.

No matter what the cause or case for structural abnormalities, there is so little research out there that relates chronic pain to this functionality. As a matter of fact, there really is none. I really would encourage anybody to approach a medical doctor with literature that describes this relationship. I would really love to see some. The fact that we sit for 8 hours a day at a desk is a really poor excuse. We should have a little more trust that our backs were designed to be a heck of a lot stronger than that. That is a pretty narrow-minded argument.

As I have studied and lived this experience for many years now, the answers truly point to a direction that is different than what everybody is thinking. To me, this is not a state of narrow mindfulness, but actually being more open than you ever could think possible. In Buddhist philosophy, we find enlightenment through the place of paradox, where we are both narrow and open at the same time.

I appreciate those who have taken the time to read and do actual research on this topic and I am sure many of you are open-minded here.

Fortunately, the erradication of this type of pain involves fully immersing yourself in this experience and believing 100% that our pain is not related to a structural abnormality. There are thousands and thousands of cases of healing here, you simply cannot ignore this.

So when we respond with the notion that some stuff works for some and some stuff works for others, we really are sitting on the fence here. It is an easy trap to fall into. Again, our body is constantly sending us deep messages through this type of pain. If we do not listen and sit on the fence, then it will find other ways. There is no question in my mind about this.

This is by no means a "made-up" pain. If you want a scientific explanation (which I am sure most people here would appreciate) there is a ton of material out there that explain the process of TMS and the intricate balance between emotions, our brain, our nervous system and oxygen in the bloodstream. Please read.

One last note here. This pain is not a stress related issue. Stress is something that we can never avoid. The pain is directly related to the "suppression" of emotions, not just stress. This is a common misunderstanding leading people to make these generalities. It is actually the avoidance of stress that causes the problems.

I am sorry for those who do not want to hear all this. But there is absolutely no other "approach" that has had as much success as this one. If you believe otherwise, you don't know. But that ain't necesarily a bad place.

Thanks for listening and good luck on all of your journeys. When we begin to understanding and create a vision of who we really are and how we really work, we begin to access an incredible well of self-awareness. That is an incredible thought.

Don't believe the hype! Explore emotions it really ain't so bad.

Cheers!
 
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