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LOST - The TV Show....anyone else hooked?

solacevip

TRIBE Promoter
if the characters were the main point, they wouldn't have had all those arg's, video games, secret promo videos, and piecemeal backstory supposedly giving clues about solving the mystery of the island since the first season. They knew that if they didn't keep adding mystery and if they made it ultimately a character-driven story, they would have lost a huge segment of the audience during seasons 2-4.

^ this!
 

Rage

TRIBE Member
Still not sure sure how I feel about it, I need more time...I have watched it from the very first season, week by week, not during marathon DVD sessions...all I can say right now is although I don't think it's the best show I've have ever invested my time in (Oz, The Wire) I can say that no other show I have ever watched has affected me like LOST has and the finale, while I'm still not able to come to terms with my feelings on it, moved me in ways I never thought a TV show could.
 

atomic

TRIBE Member
^agreed. Yes, it would have been nice to tie up all the answers with a pretty string, but what needed to happen, happened, and we're left with great television that'll be talked about long after it's done.
 

lobo

TRIBE Member
I found this on another forum and thought it made a lot of sense.

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.


In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.
Lobo
 

Rage

TRIBE Member
Lost Finale Recap: Case Closed

Jezebel's take is pretty spot-on as far as I'm concerned.
I feel that this sums up my take on things as well...it's been a few days and I liked it a lot at the time and feel even stronger about it now...what I like the most about the finale is that it DOES leave a lot up to the viewer to come to your own conclusions which in a way, makes the show that much more personal to each individual viewer...Tuesday nights wont be the same...
 

Bacchus

TRIBE Promoter
i dont know how so many people continue to use the theory of the island as a purgatory whent he writers and producers have denied this since season 3.

:confused:
 

acheron

TRIBE Member
Yeah but it's not purgatory in the "literal" sense as Abrahms has said, more likely the sideways reality was closer to that description. And Lindelof seems to suggest that wherever they are still resides in a 'real' world, not a specific place like the Judeo-Christian purgatory.
 

rave jedi

TRIBE Member
Let's just avoid this "p" word and say that the flash-sideways was just a "waiting room" as lots of people concluded before they moved on. This whole concept reminded me of this 1998 Japanese film titled "Afterlife" with very similar ideas. Has anyone ever seen this movie?

Wandâfuru raifu (1998)

Have to admit Matthew Fox described it quite well in the first few minutes of Jimmy Kimmel's special "Aloha to Lost". Wish I could have found the youtube clip and let you all hear what he had to say about it.
 

dj_soo

TRIBE Member
I think it was fairly obvious that the island, dharma, time travel, etc. all actually happened and the "flash-sideways" was the only thing that can be interpreted as "purgatory"

it's amazing how many people are all "I TOLD YOU THE ISLAND WAS PURGATORY" and then go on to reveal they stopped watching after season 2 and only read a recap of the finale (and obviously only skimmed it).
 

erikwh

TRIBE Member
Seems like most people assume that this fictional narrative is wholly self-consistent and representative some deeper reality which the viewer was meant to discover. i feel like the writers stuck in whatever twists would make for exciting viewing at the time, eventually got stuck with a big mess of a story that didn't make complete sense, and so gave up trying to satisfy the fanboys and wrote this soft ending about the island being some vague afterlife waiting-room.

LET DOWNNN. the 7 seasons of STTNG made for better scifi (albeit with less kate austen)
 

Rage

TRIBE Member
Seems like most people assume that this fictional narrative is wholly self-consistent and representative some deeper reality which the viewer was meant to discover. i feel like the writers stuck in whatever twists would make for exciting viewing at the time, eventually got stuck with a big mess of a story that didn't make complete sense, and so gave up trying to satisfy the fanboys and wrote this soft ending about the island being some vague afterlife waiting-room.

LET DOWNNN. the 7 seasons of STTNG made for better scifi (albeit with less kate austen)
The island and everything with it was real...the sideways flash from this season was the "waiting-room"...
 

dj_soo

TRIBE Member
Unanswered Lost Questions - CollegeHumor video

again would just reiterate. the island was NOT any sort of purgatory or waiting room. just the alt-LAX "timeline" that turned out to be the afterlife

The whole thing sort of reminded me of episode 7 of season 4. That was the one where it was the flashforward of Sun giving birth and they interspersed it with what seemed to be Jin trying to buy a toy for a baby implying that he had survived. In the end it turned out the Jin scenes were all flashbacks and completely unrelated to the scenes with Sun which were flash-forwards.
 
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basketballjones

TRIBE Member
weak sauce either way
5 seasons of crazy shit going on that goes largely unexplained and left for dead to be wrapped up with some fucking paint by numbers feel good disney ending...FOR FUCKING REAL???

bullshit, i dont give a fuck if it was the best time of their lives, what the fuck was the island and about 5 million other mysteries that drew me into the show that just got discarded for that crap finale with cry-a-thon moments at all the right spots
 

dj_soo

TRIBE Member
eh, depends on how you viewed the series.

if you watched the series as a sci-fi/fantasy show and love the details and explanations, the ending was kind of bullshit.

if you watched the series as a character-driven drama which happened to be wrapped in sci-fi trappings then the ending was pretty satisfying.

I think that's what lost managed to do so well tho - it walked that line between character-driven stories and a fantastical setting...

To me, when damon and carlton announced that not everything would get answered, i was a little disappointed... but when Across the Sea came on and as soon as Mother stated "every answer I give will just lead to another question" I just took that to be basically the writer's response for the ones that need every last detail spelled out for them and decided to just roll with it...

What made the show successful at first was the mysteries. What made people stick with the show was the characters and development...
 

basketballjones

TRIBE Member
^again, that is total bullshit
the show would never have lasted past the pilot if it wasnt for the mysteries and crazy shit going on
take out the mysteries and such and you have gilligans island redux

no others means no one trying to kill them, so no need for anyone to really step up
no hatch, no smoke monster, no whispers, no dharma, no time travel and NO FUCKING MOVING ISLAND means they just start a big fire and soon get rescued
 
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Bacchus

TRIBE Promoter
^again, that is total bullshit
the show would never have lasted past the pilot if it wasnt for the mysteries and crazy shit going on
take out the mysteries and such and you have gilligans island redux

no others means no one trying to kill them, so no need for anyone to really step up
no hatch, no smoke monster, no whispers, no dharma, no time travel and NO FUCKING MOVING ISLAND means they just start a big fire and soon get rescued
it's collegehumor, and not meant to be taken seriously ;)
 

dj_soo

TRIBE Member
^again, that is total bullshit
the show would never have lasted past the pilot if it wasnt for the mysteries and crazy shit going on
take out the mysteries and such and you have gilligans island redux

no others means no one trying to kill them, so no need for anyone to really step up
no hatch, no smoke monster, no whispers, no dharma, no time travel and NO FUCKING MOVING ISLAND means they just start a big fire and soon get rescued
What made the show successful at first was the mysteries. What made people stick with the show was the characters and development...
think i pretty much said the same thing.

but that's sort of the rub - if the story is essentially told from the character's perspective, they probably aren't going to get all the answers either. They might get some but some mysteries are still mysteries.

I never said it was better as one or the other - just that the show has *always* walked the line between a focus on the characters and their development and the mysterious setting they found themselves in.

It's just that the ending chose to highlight one over the other and it's obvious that some fans (like yourself) would have preferred a more explanatory ending while others were alright just rooting for the characters.

Not that it's either-or, but some people are ok with the ending focusing on the character-development aspect of the show rather than just a "lets explain everything"

Yes, I'd like to know what was up with walt and the pregnancies... actually that's about it - everything else I was fine with more or less...
 
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basketballjones

TRIBE Member
there are far too many large mysteries that they simply abandoned after spending significant amounts of time building them up for them to be inconsequential because all of a sudden they decided it is now a character driven show

usually with mystery shows, character driven or not, you usually have said mysteries explained, not simply abandoned and forgotten with a ps at the end..sorry dude, we forgot to mention right at the last moment, those mysteries didnt mean anything even after the 5 seasons of nothing but
 
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