LEGAL HELP PLEASE- Contractual Obligations?!?!?!

[stryker]

I hae a question for any of the lawyers or anyone who has had to deal with contractual obligations. (Will i'm looking in you're general direction

)
PLEASE!

O.K., here it goes. I'm am currently employed by an office services company (temping pretty much) and they have me contracted out to the mailroom of a big law firm at FCP. The law firm wants to hire me on full time, but if they do they'll have to buy-out my contract from the temp agency (10%of my yearly salary). This is a bit of a problem because the dept. budget has already been done and finding another couple of thousand is going to be hard!. I can't just quit becuae the Temp agency will cry foul, and could possibly pursue legal action if the 10% isn't paid.

Now, here's the fucked up part! I've only been at the Temp place for 2 months and as of yet i'm not a full employee, no benifits, no sick days, nothing until March when my probabation is up. Since i'm not a fully fledged employee of the Temp agency, I don't think the "buy-out" clause still applies.
If they can fire me without reason and without notice, in turn, I should be able to quit without reason or ample notice until my probation is up.

If anyone can help me out, i owe you a pint or a spliff or whatever is within reason.
I really want to stay on at this Law firm becuase it's an amazing place to work and the pay and benifits are unreal!

My boss wants to keep me on but, he doesn't want to get sued. I'm thinking about just up-and-quitting the temp agency, but they might get pissed and try to fuck over my boss at the law firm.

in a worst case scenario I migth end up ahving to get my self fired form the temp place so that I can get re-hired by the law firm.

Thanks for the help.

Stew

 

[LeoGirl]

I'd say the 3 month probationary period is just that, probationary and it should apply regardless of who you are working for.

Best bet, call the labour board. Ask them.

Geez, you work for a Law Firm ask them.

Hey if they can let you go for no reason, you should be able to quit for no reason, either that or get your boss to tell the agency that you're a moron so they'll fire you. Then he can hire you on.

Sound good???

 

[patri©k]

I never realized that you had any sort of obligation to these 'temp' agencies.

I thought that as long as you 'needed' them to find you work, they did, and for that... the company that they found you work with, pays them and they in return, pay you.

So.... I'm confused.

Contract ? Buying out ?

you should be in the NHL or something with all this contract talk.

Fuck the agency. If you're done with them and your boss wants to keep you at the firm. Just have your boss tell the agency that your contract is finished. He should then tell them that he would like to stop working in partnership with them and then hire you on full time.

simple. I think you're making it more complicated than it should be.

fattyp©2002

 

[Klubmasta Will]

it depends on the WORDING of your contract. without reading the contract itself, it sounds to me like the temp agency "owns" you for the specified term. in fact, the purpose of the 'buy out' provision is precisely so they can protect themselves against their employees jumping ship when they get an offer from a firm at which they are temping. (it must happen all the time.)

your best bet is to get your prospective new boss to talk to the temp agency. if they value their clients (i.e. the law firm), then they may be willing to let you out of your contract. it's only $2,000 and that's a small price to pay to keep a good client happy.

cheers.

 

[Jeremy Jive]

Ya, what Will said. Sounds like good advice to me.

jeremy -and he is a lawyer- jive

 

[Fir3start3r]

I'd read over anything you may have signed with the Agency very closely and look for that little clause you're looking for.
If not just phone the labour board; they're usually pretty good at answering questions like this...
http://www.gov.on.ca/lab/olrb/eng/homeeng.htm

 

[Libradragon]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by stryker:


O.K., here it goes. I'm am currently employed by an office services company (temping pretty much) and they have me contracted out to the mailroom of a big law firm at FCP. The law firm wants to hire me on full time, but if they do they'll have to buy-out my contract from the temp agency (10%of my yearly salary). This is a bit of a problem because the dept. budget has already been done and finding another couple of thousand is going to be hard!.</font>

Stew, unfortunately this could be the fault of the law firm. From my experiences with agencies (i only work with one), there should have been an agreement/contract drawn up and signed by the law firm before taking you on as a contract (temp) employee. They are made aware of buy-out fees should they want to hire you full time. The agency is within their rights to go after the company should they employ you behind their backs.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Now, here's the fucked up part! I've only been at the Temp place for 2 months and as of yet i'm not a full employee, no benifits, no sick days, nothing until March when my probabation is up. Since i'm not a fully fledged employee of the Temp agency, I don't think the "buy-out" clause still applies.
</font>

the buy out clause still applies. I'm assuming the temp agency isn't some fly by the night agency, and would have these details sorted out. Check your contract that you signed with the agency carefully.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
If they can fire me without reason and without notice, in turn, I should be able to quit without reason or ample notice until my probation is up.

</font>

yes you can. however, they still *found* the company for you, and *found* you for the company. So if you in turn, sign up and work for the company behind the agency's back, the company is liable for breach of contract.

 

[Libradragon]

also, presitigious law firms are bullshitting you about budget constraints. they shouldn't have signed an agreement with the temp agency if they can't fulfill their end of the bargain.

 

[Rosey]

most temp agencies also as double as headhunters/placement agencies. they all have similar contracts. if they find you a place to work the you either have to complete their period (12 weeks to 6 months depending) and/or pay their fees ($0 - $3000) depending on how long you ahve been with them.

if you leave them before your period is up that's fine, if you leave them to go on the payroll at a job that they initially found you then your employer is legally obligated to pay them their finders fee.

smart employers negotiate with temp angencies before they take somebody on. typically a smart employer will negotiate a 3 month probationary period and then you are free to go on payroll if they like you. it doesn't sound liike your employer knew that.

but you should be free to leave your agency without any conditions when their period is up. they can't own you forever!

when i was with pinstripe it was 12 weeks or $1000. i left after 12 weeks with them and went onto the payroll of another agnecy that was offering me $4 more per hour for the smae billing rate to my boss.

i have a file and report on temp agnecies sitting in my desk. got questions? tlak to me.

libradragon knows this shit too.

 

[Rosey]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Libradragon:
also, presitigious law firms are bullshitting you about budget constraints. they shouldn't have signed an agreement with the temp agency if they can't fulfill their end of the bargain. </font>

true. the rule of thumb for billing rates is 35-50%. so if, say, you are getting $20/hour (40K/year) from your agency then they are billing something between $26 an $30 to your law firm.

assuming you are only billing for $26 (yeah, right) your firm could give you $23/hour and pay a $3000 finders fee and still save $2000 a year. (i assumed a 36.25 hour paid work week and 50 weeks a year).

don't let them bullshit you.

 

[Rosey]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by stryker:
in a worst case scenario I migth end up ahving to get my self fired form the temp place so that I can get re-hired by the law firm.
</font>

you will probably find that the contract is worded so that it is binding for at least a year no matter what circumstances you leave the agency under.

 

[Libradragon]

also, your boss shouldn't even be discussing these issues with YOU, the candidate. It only puts you in an awkward position. They're a law firm, and they signed an agreement with the agency. They should know best about signing agreements, and whether or not they can afford to honor them.

I don't handle temp issues, but when i'm dealing with potential clients, i don't even send them ANY resumes without a signed agreement.

 

[Brokenbone]

A law firm that can't write of a $2000 business expense... Jesus.

If they actually wanted a regular hire, don't you think they'd either be paying for classifieds plus partners' billable time being wasted screening a dozen candidates plus the potential risks / costs associated with having a bad hire wash out...? Paying $2000 for a good match shouldn't be at all hard for a law firm, and as it appears they're in First Canadian Place, they must have some level of income to keep things together.

Further I imagine if they want you as a reg hire, they will be saving a lot to have you on their payroll rather than doing some complimentary workforce crap. Temp agencies markup people in exchange for instant availability / interchangeability, no?

Frank discussion of that kind of stuff with the law firm people who have that kind of decision making power is what you need.
Netting it out, you're probably screwed contractually so it's time to negotiate.

(I'm a lawyer too BTW. Labour and employment from management side is the general background.)

 

[Libradragon]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Brokenbone:

If they actually wanted a regular hire, don't you think they'd either be paying for classifieds plus partners' billable time being wasted screening a dozen candidates plus the potential risks / costs associated with having a bad hire wash out...? Paying $2000 for a good match shouldn't be at all hard for a law firm, and as it appears they're in First Canadian Place, they must have some level of income to keep things together.
</font>

FYI, an ad in the saturday star (a good ad)to run from saturday to thursday costs $3000. And you're not even sure you'd get a good response. $2000??? pfft, that
s a bargain..

 

[stryker]

WOW!!!!!
Thanks for all the info!!!!

The place I work for isn't exactly a Temp Agency, it's an office services center. It's not like ManPower or Apple One or anything. It's a whole bunch of office shit rolled up into one mail, temping, couriers, etc. . They don't do a whole lot of temping, but it just so happened that I to have the qualifictaions that one of their clents was looking for.
So I was placed in the Law Firm on my first day and i've been here since.
They had NO intentions of hiring me on full time at first. But, i'm a good worker and I know my shit, plus a inside position has opened up.
Anyways, i'll get back to this later, but it's quitting time right now!
Stew

 

[Libradragon]

is it IKON office solutions?

 

[stryker]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Klubmasta Will:
it depends on the WORDING of your contract. without reading the contract itself, it sounds to me like the temp agency "owns" you for the specified term. in fact, the purpose of the 'buy out' provision is precisely so they can protect themselves against their employees jumping ship when they get an offer from a firm at which they are temping. (it must happen all the time.)

your best bet is to get your prospective new boss to talk to the temp agency. if they value their clients (i.e. the law firm), then they may be willing to let you out of your contract. it's only $2,000 and that's a small price to pay to keep a good client happy.

cheers.

</font>

Thanks! I've brought this idea up with my boss and he's thinking about it, but I still won't find out anything until Feb.
Stew

 

[stryker]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Libradragon:
yes you can. however, they still *found* the company for you, and *found* you for the company. So if you in turn, sign up and work for the company behind the agency's back, the company is liable for breach of contract.

</font>

That't the BiGGEST obstacle, my boss is a cool guy, but he doensn't carry enough sway in here. If a lawsuit got filed they'd can him in a second rather than deal with the headaches!
Stew

 

[stryker]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Libradragon:
yes you can. however, they still *found* the company for you, and *found* you for the company. So if you in turn, sign up and work for the company behind the agency's back, the company is liable for breach of contract.

</font>

That't the BiGGEST obstacle, my boss is a cool guy, but he doensn't carry enough sway in here. If a lawsuit got filed they'd can him in a second rather than deal with the headaches!
Stew