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LCBO to be sold?!?

OTIS

TRIBE Member
McGuinty may sell LCBO, NDP says
NDP urges people to send McGuinty message in empty liquor bottles

Keith Leslie
Canadian Press
National Post
Friday, February 20, 2004


TORONTO -- The best way to stop Premier Dalton McGuinty from selling the Liquor Control Board of Ontario is to send him a message in a bottle, the New Democrats said Thursday.

"I urge all Ontarians that want to stop the LCBO selloff to wrap up your empty wine bottles or liquor bottles and send them to the premier,'' said Timmins-James Bay New Democrat Gilles Bisson.

He suggests people tuck a note inside the empty bottles opposing the sale of the LCBO before packing them carefully and mailing them off to Queen's Park.

Bisson believes McGuinty is poised to break another campaign promise by selling the huge liquor control board, something the previous Conservatives had talked about since 1995, but never did.

"Before the election, he promised to protect public assets, but now he wants to sell them faster than you can say Mike Harris,'' complained Bisson.

Former Tory Premier Ernie Eves always said no one could come up with a solid business case for selling the liquor board, which brings in almost one billion dollars in profits each year for the province.

"At a time when we've got a challenge to make sure that we've got the dollars to run important programs like health and education, it's one of the ways the province has to raise revenue,'' said Bisson.

The NDP says selling the liquor board would be a financial disaster for the cash-strapped government, and would mean short term gain for long term pain.

"It's like selling our crown jewels to pay the mortgage,'' said Bisson.

"If we were to decide to sell the LCBO, or parts of it by way of franchises, income trusts or whatever they decide to do, what you're doing is selling away future profits.''

The Liberals have not announced plans to sell the liquor control board, but have also refused to rule out the sale of provincial assets while they conduct public consultations on the best ways to eliminate the deficit, projected at $5.6 billion this year.

After giving reporters miniature bottles filled with whiskey to announce his news conference, Bisson dug out old Hansard quotes of McGuinty and some of his cabinet ministers who attacked the Tories for even suggesting they would sell the LCBO.

Bisson said McGuinty had labelled Mike Harris an "extremist'' for proposing the sale and said the Tory premier's plan was "driven by ideology.''

He warns privatizing liquor sales would make it harder to keep alcohol out of the hands of minors and said it would mean fewer products on Ontario shelves.

Alberta's private liquor stores carry about 1,600 products, compared to more than 2,800 products at LCBO stores.

Source

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What do you think? Currently the LCBO monopoly is a huge cash cow for the province...
 
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diablo

TRIBE Member
I hope they don't sell it.

They should allow private stores to sell alcohol, though. There's no reason for the LCBO to have a monopoly.
 

KiFe

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by diablo
I hope they don't sell it.

They should allow private stores to sell alcohol, though. There's no reason for the LCBO to have a monopoly.

then shouldnt you be hoping they WILL sell it? thus allowing priv8 stores to sell alcohol?
 
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Vote Quimby

TRIBE Member
What a two faced asshole.

In opposition, he argued against the privitisation of assets like the LCBO when the Tories were in charge, now he wants to do the same.

The LCBO is a cash cow for the province. So he sells it and gets a nice big pay day. But then what? Now every year the province is suddenly without the $1 billion cheque that the LCBO gives them. Sure they will still get the taxes, but they don't get the profits.

I guess if they do sell it, expect liquor taxes to go up quite a bit to make up the shortfall in future years.

From a consumer point of view, I like being able to find everything in one store. I like the fact that the LCBO is the biggest wine buyer in the world. I find the service to be good quality.

Residents and consumers would be big losers if this happens.
 

R4V4G3D_SKU11S

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Vote Quimby
So he sells it and gets a nice big pay day. But then what? Now every year the province is suddenly without the $1 billion cheque that the LCBO gives them. Sure they will still get the taxes, but they don't get the profits.

Absolutely.

Sell Via Rail or something.
 

Big Cheese

TRIBE Member
well

some people i know have been talking for too long about getting rid of the LCBO....

don't know much about it myself but woulnd't it be good for the consumer to have private companies bring in stuff the LCBO won't.. as well as bring in what is already being brought in because of market demand?

people who travel into canada always complain about there not being enough selection, being guv controlled n' all, no?

then again, if it goes private, so many good things about the LCBO, qualty control, good public access to product information, etc.. goes down the tubes

i suppose i'd have to read more up on it to have a better opinion, something like this will affect me n' my career down the road for sure so post more linx if ya got 'em :^)

good read

'G
 

JAR

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by OTIS
McGuinty may sell LCBO, NDP says
NDP urges people to send McGuinty message in empty liquor bottles
He warns privatizing liquor sales would make it harder to keep alcohol out of the hands of minors and said it would mean fewer products on Ontario shelves.

Alberta's private liquor stores carry about 1,600 products, compared to more than 2,800 products at LCBO stores.

Source

==============

What do you think? Currently the LCBO monopoly is a huge cash cow for the province...


I find the part about fewer products hard to believe. Have you ever been to a big liquor store in the USA? They carry WAY MORE selections of just about everything.

and when it comes to keeping booze out of the hands of minors: I don't know anyone who ever had much of a problem scoring booze when they were underage.
 
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R4V4G3D_SKU11S

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by KiFe
then shouldnt you be hoping they WILL sell it? thus allowing priv8 stores to sell alcohol?

They could keep the LCBOand allow for private sales.

Its like the Caisse Populair in Quebec.

I think that would be a good idea. LCBO is such a fucing awesome business that it wouldn't hurt them much.
 

Adam

TRIBE Member
Anyone care to hazard a guess as to what the LCBO would be worth?

If it's a billion+ annual earner, it must be ridiculously valuable if selling it is an option.

what a fucking stupid idea.
 

Littlest Hobo

TRIBE Member
Good.

I hate the LCBO, and all that they stand for (except the Food & Wine magazine). I grow tired of their self-congratulatory tone, where they boast huge profits. Hello! You're a monopoly! And a drug dealer. The bottles would sell themselves if they could make change.

The fact you have to pay a deposit at a store that doesn't accept returns is a shakedown. When I see the LCBO selling things other than booze (candelsticks and the rest of that yuppies soccor mom shit), that infringes on how others can compete with them. The LCBO has entirely too much power when it comes to issuing liquor licenses.

When I want to pick up a bottle of plonk, I should be able to go down to my corner store and pick it up, not travel across town. Not to mention when the blackout occured, the state stopped selling booze. If my local corner stores can sell without power, why can't they! Answer: because they don;t have to!

And don't me started on their fucking bags.
 

JAR

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Adam
Anyone care to hazard a guess as to what the LCBO would be worth?

If it's a billion+ annual earner, it must be ridiculously valuable if selling it is an option.

what a fucking stupid idea.

I think their annual profit is 1.2 billion. could be wrong though...that number sticks out in my head for some reason.
 

Vote Quimby

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Littlest Hobo
The LCBO has entirely too much power when it comes to issuing liquor licenses. .
That would be the LLBO. And do you think that there should be competition when it comes to issuing licenses? Shoult the MTO give up their monopoly on drivers licenses?
 
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Muad'ib

Well-Known TRIBEr
I don't think it is a bad idea. It has worked really well in Alberta. The govt still makes all of their money through taxes, both on the liquor and on the income from the businesses, and they reduce their costs i.e. unionized labour. We get a market system which reduces our costs(slightly) and increases service through easier availablity and longer hours.

The government is still going to have a monopoly over liquor distribution and sales, but they lose the costs of having to actually sell it themselves and get to tax the people that do.
 

Littlest Hobo

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Vote Quimby
That would be the LLBO.

In that case, I loathe both of them.

Everyone seems to be shits and giggles over the profits made at the LCBO. It's because they are gouging us! It's like bragging about the federal surplus; it's our money to begin with!
 
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opium_souldjah

TRIBE Member
That would be a huge mistake on his part to sell the LCBO cos as it is now it's huge for the provinces economy and pretty much keeping thigs afloat. To sell it off would mean plummeting further into debt wouldn't it?
 

JAR

TRIBE Member
Liquor Store workers react to the statements of Jim Flaherty
TORONTO, Feb. 22 /CNW/ - Today Jim Flaherty gave a statement in front of
a Toronto area LCBO store setting out his position on the sell-off of various
publicly owned assets.
His media release and backgrounder included statements like: There's no
good reason why government should be in the business of selling alcohol; and
that Flaherty believes the government can sell the LCBO, increase choice and
competition and still bring in more revenue through a new licensing system.
His background information and calculations however are flawed and
accordingly he has come to several equally flawed conclusions about the
current LCBO system, its employees and services.

A few of these factual errors are corrected below:

Flaherty says:
That with his plan government revenues from a private system would
increase through a licencing fee equivalent to 20% of sales.

Reality Check -
The LCBO audited annual report reveals annual sales of just over
2.7 billion dollars. After all expenses are paid these sales generated a
850 million dollar profit for the people of Ontario (over and above taxes).
Flaherty's licencing fees would instead bring in only 540 million dollars
leaving the people of Ontario 310 million dollars poorer and the private store
owners that much richer.

Flaherty says:
There are approximately 3,500 products listed for sale through the LCBO
network.

Reality Check -
The LCBO audited annual report reveals that 14,587 products are available
for sale through the LCBO. This includes various sales channels including
stores, catalogues and Vintage releases.

Flaherty says:
That the people of Ontario would reap the benefits of a sale of LCBO
assets including among other things their delivery trucks.

Reality Check -
The LCBO audited annual report reveals that the book value of LCBO
physical assets is only 186 million dollars, a small investment when compared
to the ongoing profits. (By the way the LCBO doesn't own any delivery trucks.
Perhaps Flaherty wanted to sell off the trucks of the privately owned Beer
Stores?)

Flaherty says:
That the LCBO has expanded into areas other that liquor sales, including
cooking classes, magazines, tasting kitchens and wine appreciation courses.

Reality Check -
These services have been provided by the LCBO to meet customer demand.
These services also encourage the responsible use of alcohol products. That is
part of the reason that the LCBO has received 80 awards for customer service,
staff training and development, store design, advertising, innovative
retailing, corporate communications and social responsibility.

Flaherty says:
He will create strict laws to promote responsible drinking including the
creation of an advisory council on public safety.

Reality Check -
Destroying the current system would mean an end to current LCBO programs,
which manage the public consumption of alcohol. These measures include the
LCBO challenge and refusal policy, which resulted in LCBO employees
challenging 1.1 million customers with 80,000 of these challenges resulting in
a turn-down of service because the customer was intoxicated or under age.
(97.5% of the refusals were age based)
Studies from other jurisdictions indicate that consumption increases when
a public system is privatized. Studies by Dr. Alex Wagenaar, a scientist from
the University of Minnesota verify these trends. These trends have also been
confirmed through studies from the Ontario Institute for Addiction and Mental
Health.
On a societal basis, in Ontario, about 3 billion dollars is lost annually
through alcohol consumption as the result of health, law enforcement, and
correctional service costs and the cost of lost production. As a result any
action that would increase these costs would hurt the people of Ontario. These
statistics can be found in the Canadian Journal of Public Health.

John Coones, president of the Ontario Liquor Boards Employees' Union,
which represents LCBO employees stated in response:

"With these factual flaws the public should press Flaherty to explain how
his proposal will help anyone in the province. It would in fact hurt the
people of the province and further burden the Ontario health and social
service system."
"One would hope that Finance Minister Flaherty's flawed calculations are
not an indication of other math errors in his current Ministry."
"Perhaps Flaherty has been working out these numbers using the Tories new
math curriculum."




For further information: or comment call John Coones (President -
Ontario Liquor Boards Employees' Union), (905) 712-2912, 1-800-268-0340 or
(416) 741-5100
 

OTIS

TRIBE Member
Originally posted by Muad'ib
I don't think it is a bad idea. It has worked really well in Alberta. The govt still makes all of their money through taxes, both on the liquor and on the income from the businesses, and they reduce their costs i.e. unionized labour. We get a market system which reduces our costs(slightly) and increases service through easier availablity and longer hours.

Some LCBO's are open till 10:30.. that's pretty late isnt it?
Although I think they should have mini-lcbo's to better serve. But As far as the union goes, I appreciate the fact that liquor is sold by a somewhat regulated employee base as it is a sensitive substance especially when introduced en masse into lower income communities.

Originally posted by Muad'ib
The government is still going to have a monopoly over liquor distribution and sales, but they lose the costs of having to actually sell it themselves and get to tax the people that do.
Will they still be raking in billions tho? And as we see with teh Alberta example, the choice is less witht eh private option.. not more.
 
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